CounterClockwork's page

Why would "but you haven't rolled yet" mean that the effect happens after the roll? To me, it's the same thing as the other version "before rolling". This also makes me think that it's supposed to be before rolling for comparable effects, like Nanite Surge, and they just forgot to put it.

Ha! Thank you! That was late night brain working against itself. I was somehow interpreting those as two different outcomes merely because they were worded differently. I probably shouldn't try to problem solve at 2 am.

Since all the other effects tend to cause the feat to be used before the roll, it does seem that that would be the general case scenario.

The android feat Nanite Surge is a reaction that has the trigger "You attempt a skill check requiring three actions or fewer" and says "You gain a +2 status bonus to the triggering skill check".

I was wondering if the feat is used before or after the roll has been made. In my mind attempting a roll is the act of rolling to meet a target, so reacting would happen after that. However, I could see an interpretation for attempting a roll being simply declaring that the roll will be made. I couldn't find any clear definition of what constitutes an "attempt" in the rules, other than it being the entire process or rolling against a target value. The best I could find was the section on reactions that states "when its trigger is satisfied—and only when it is satisfied—you can use the reaction or free action, though you don’t have to use the action if you don’t want to". I felt this implies that the roll must have already been attempted to trigger the opportunity to use the reaction.

I decided to look at other reactions for guidance. Orc Superstition and Divine Grace both include the clause "before rolling" in the trigger, so it is clear they happen before. Charmed Life, and the reactions attached to the items Bronze Bull Pendant, Emerald Grasshopper, Grim Trophy, Iron Medallion, and Robe of the Archmagi all include the clause "but you haven't rolled yet" in the trigger, so they clearly all happen after. The one other skill I found that does not call out the specific timing is Scholarly Recollection, but it just left me wondering about its timing as well.

Reactions to attack rolls can specify using "targeted" or "hit by", which is much more clear. However, that doesn't help me determine when exactly I am "attempting" my skill roll in this case.

Is this just a case of a trigger that should have an extra clause added in? Or is there a more general rule written somewhere that I am missing? Is the clause "before rolling" added as an exception to the general rule, or is the clause "but you haven't rolled yet" added as the exception to the general rule? I've run across some strong opinions, but no actual evidence one way or the other. Help please!