Cornebre's page

#81 Expert course on time magic will start yesterday at 15h.
Note: Students stuck in a time loop are STILL required to go to class and seek help

#82 Whoever is summoning succubus is kindly requested to stop, as it is becoming difficult to feed everyone without putting the faculty at risk.
- Hanonimous the Succubus

Even if we will never totally agree (;p), that could be an interesting "solutions"

Reincarnated druid?
Each week, they will be attacked by a random humanoid, and they will have a hard time figuring out that they are fighting THE SAME enemy...

On the whole "tasteless non nutritious meat because came from stone". Stone don't have most of the required elements to form biological matter anyway! So... magic? The way this meat is treated is totally GM fiats.

There are some monsters don't have bones anyway (Example: Slimes anyone?) or that would no be able to "work" with our law of physics, so an animated golem made out of only flesh? Why not? Magic!

Oo
oO
OO
...
Introduced to pathfinder.
Of course it didn't introduced to the world at large these problems.
Do I need to explicit elements to the point it's unreadable to prevent farfetched interpretation?

I feel like a PF spell right now XD

First post:

The arguments on this forum are the same than in other fandom...

Well, ok, I missed an S at the end of fandom, but it's "in other fandom", not "in that other fandom"

"remind me of..."
That don't limit a scope.
"This fruit remind me of tomato" don't limit the fruit to be like a tomato, just that they share similitudes... (and maybe just in it's external appearance! This is a question of context)
So... PF rule layer remind me of Star Wars Nerds, yes. But also of the most Trekkies of Trekkies or even (add here any extreme fandom member of a univers with precise rules)

Homegame variation are less problematic, as they are expected to be possibly different. PFS should have the same set of rules, as it is an "organised play". This is why there are often judges or referees in other form of organised play.

Can you quote where I said PF and SW where unique? oO
Like... explicitly stated that? Or even implicitly? Oo

Rules arguments in an organised play are more important than in homegames.

Never said that was unique to pathfinder... Look at this forum. How many times the fact that the ruling will vary from a PFS GM to an other is introduced in the arguing?

I know it's an other can of worms, but haste can linguistically work with any movement type. Because it *include* land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim, not *specifically* that...
Thus, it should work with spell that use other speed measurements...

This is why you should not overanalyze anything... The English language is soooo... like any non-computer language ^^

I have no clue what you're talking about now.

XD

Point 1) An author wrote that a door is blue. Someone analyse it as a metaphor about live. The author say "no, it's just frinking blue..."

Point 2) Well... PFS is the organised play of PF. Nuf said...

Point 3) For you, who assume what? What do you assume, what do I assume?

Point Hot Dog) Well... they are tasty?

The implication felt there, especially with the rest of your post, such as:

Introduced them to you specifically, maybe. But PFS was not the birth of this.

It’s not misinterpretations when you’re running with assumptions, most of which aren’t true.

1) Trying to find meaning outside of written words is the best way to tell the nephew of an author that the analysis of the book of it's oncle (done in secret by the oncle himself) is wrong and is only worth a 3/20.

...

If hotdogs are sandwich, taco and faritas are too. Nothing wrong with it, just a constatation.

Stormwind fallacy is about optimisation and RP, two ways of playing the game that are compatible, yes.
Here, this is not about how to PLAY the game, but how some try to impose a computer level strictness to the English language.

PFS is an organised play like any other, yes. But PFS IS the organised play of pathfinder.
If two different GM get different interpretations, organised play become a bad thing.
Was there as much problem with D&D4? I remember a very well organised game in term of structure.

If a player's character is centred around a gimmick, it can become frustrating if ONE GM don't allow it mid game.

Rysky:
You apply specific to a broad topic.
PFS need consistency to exist. That alone can create debate. It will not be all games, but, like this forum, a few there and there.

Also, you make me say things that I didn't.
I never said that SW and PF are unique in this regard. I just compared the two.
Nor did I said that PFS was unique/first, just that it's the medium that introduced lots of the issues.
Anyway, thanks for you to prove my point on how a sentence can be totally missinterpreted to the point it got no longer the same "spirit".

On the important topic:
Does love have a cost? If not, how many love infused hotdogs can you make with a single cast of fabricate? Is love given freely tastier than love taken by force/through domination? Is love from a love potion considered artificial ingredient? What is the taste of a Tarrask hotdog? Is it even a hotdog?

Oh look, a "bad wrong fun" post.

People are allowed to play the game in whichever way is most fun to them. The fun of the people who like a more structured system with clear and rigid rules is no less valid than the fun of people who prefer loose interpretation, "rule of cool", "theatre of the mind", etc.

I'm not entirely sure why other people feel the need to enforce that things should be enjoyed the way they personally enjoy them or else not at all.

It's not a "BWF" post.

Cornebre wrote:

It's whole arguments came from 3 simple letters: P F and S

L O L

Cornebre wrote:

The arguments on this forum are the same than in other fandom...

You mean the ones that don't have PFS? That kinda kills your assumption right there.

Or were you trying to say they weren't the same? In which case that's just flat out false, these arguments have existed in these type of games and elsewhere long before organized play.

We would have less arguments if the answers that you grant to many people is "Oh... you want to play PFS? Well... don't play that, it depends on the GM interpretation".

PF forum remind me of Star Wars fandom sometimes, the worst part... The part that tear down any work sentence per sentence and reject anything that didn't fit their vision of the canon.

Yes... my bad. ^^'
BUT! You are not your own enemy!

(that would be really weird though as the caster would get caught in the area of the spell)

Because you are your own ally, if the spell only affects enemies, you will not be affected thou

(The helm of mammoth grant a gore attack, not a bite)
A vigilante dog? Many things to do with a vigilante. That includes spellcasting, or tanking, or healing. Anything really.

The vigilante get hometown bonus with the renown talent and it's dependencies.
Anyone with a renown really (Either thought RP or the renown feat Masked Renown)

Didn't say (me or the others) that the rules are not important, they impose a setting (Even game "with no rules" explicitly or implicitly got some ;p), just that the interpretation of them should not prevent good storytelling and clever (but reasonable univers wise) usage.
It's like many use crafting rules without taking into account problem of market oversaturated and demand. Rules don't cover it.
The problem is, PFS is intended to allow anyone to get into any groups (It's what I understood, never joined one, not sure there is even groups outside of foreign capital for foreign customers). The fact that groups can interpret rules differently is bad for that kind of "plug and play". Does someone that goes to the PF2 forum can tell me if there is the same level of endless arguments in it?

I think I know why this kind of "discussion" came to be.
Like the whole "infernal healing don't make me bad because I don't care about coherence of the univers, just about rules (except that one book because I find it stupid)", or the bladed dash thread just below...

It's whole arguments came from 3 simple letters: P F and S

Because of PFS, RAW become LAW. Some PFS players are not here to play a social game to write an interactive story with the GM. They are here to play a game with a precise set of rules, coherence be damned! Worst: FUN and Rule of Cool be damned.

The arguments on this forum are the same than in other fandom... "Leia used a power that was not in any books!" Yes, but the Star Wars GM was more interested by telling an interesting story (or tried to...)

"Alignment is a guideline! I can play however I like!"
Yes, but you are missing out on the interesting aspect of corruption and redemption. Infernal healing is like the One True Ring. It change your alignment slowly but surely. Even if you are good at heart, evil spells corrupt. Good spells try to redeem you, but like the force, Dark side is a fast and easy way.

Someone on this forum once told me that "they don't want to feel like playing a video game". You know what the argument above is? Exactly that. Treating Pathfinder like a system before an univers.
This remind me of WoW paladin that stacked effects over a long period just to be able to OS bosses. Was it RAW within WoW? Yes. Was it fun and interesting in a story? No. Take any story with a villain that the hero must kill. Would it be interesting if the hero was doing rules exploits to OS the last boss?
Pathfinder is a story generator. Rules are guidelines.
Does allowing the Magus to strike in the air a bad thing? I think not, because it's a creative and COOL way of doing it a few times per day. And the day the party will face an other magus that can do the same kind of tricks, they will be quite surprised!
It's also why PFS create that kind of arguments. What do you do if players go off the rails? What if they kill the villain on the first encounter per pure luck? Or point out to the ruler with a clever thinking that "mister big bad second in command" want to be "First in command"? Or even worst! The players don't follow the plot at all and do their own things? In a home game, it's easy. In PFS? ...

Well, what your thoughts on this?

P.S.: I was supposed to post in the bladed dash thread, but I thought it would be better in its own thread.

Become even better with a few mods!
Look at Nexusmods, there are a few VERY interesting mods.

Lich Vigilante Warlock with the talents:
Safe house and Guise of Life.

"Me? A lich? You must be mistaken! Isn't it funny Lord Bearinton?"
"Rrrrrr"

(Worst if the lich take all disguise talent like Everyman...)

Alchemist archetypes that came to mind:
Construct Rider get a mechanical mount
Promethean Alchemist or Homunculist's homunculus can be easily reflavored as a mechanical construct without any rule changes.
Tinkerer get a clockwork familiar

Well... you don't zip "around" as the spell is a straight line ^^'
What is agreed upon:
you can zip between enemies at ground level. (distance still disputed by some ...)

If you wish to pass thought enemies or go 3d, ask the GM.

Very few spell ignore line of effect.
"Solid object" prevent line of effect.
=> No passing through wall/door/any total covers

... and RAW a character welding a torch in a closed space with no other light source can see a character 120m away just fine, while the one in darkness can't see anything.

There are, in the rules, many fails and many misuse of words that creates endless and pointless debate between people that only listen to their own voice once the debate got dragged long enough...

For the OP: Talk to your GM, see with him his ruling because, clearly, you won't get any useful answer to that particular question.

But just to resume the above persons:

RAW: It's a mess the further you get into the rabbit hole of word for word analyse. (Like always...)

RAI: We don't know, because the writer is not available.

Rule of cool: Be Genji! Strike hard and fast in any 3d direction like a blade in the wind, passing through enemies! Hope you don't need healing after that ;p

Like others:
Look at the party, fill the gap with a fun/cool build.
Start with a concept.
See what it can do each level.
Scrap some of it during the campaign because something happens that made my character go into a slightly other direction XD

I got to play two character in PF. I'm proud of both.
The first was a Cavalier/Bard/URogue/Ranger/Brawler... the objective was to stack buffs for my allies and protect them from harm. Got every skills at least opened
Was he effective? Yes. Optimized? Not really.

My other favourite is a Vigilante Kitsune that use and abuse polymoph effects. Specialised in natural attacks (Oozemorphic weapons FTW).

P.S:
Remember a thing. Character are people. They can plan to do something, but life can throw a wrench in it!
My vigilante just took "companion to the lonely", because s/he (literally gender-fluid) keep failing will saves, and got in couple with an other PC. S/He will get Leadership too, to gain access to someone that will grant him/er extracts and mutagen, to try compensate her/is weakness (flatfooted AC...) that made him/er nearly died already... twice...
My cavalier was not supposed to multiclass that much... but it "imposed" itself ;p

P.P.S.: Derklord answer to this topic could be interesting

This spell is like many things here:
Something many are nitpicking to tear it apart...
The more you analyse it, the more you can create problems.
If you read it as it is => You "move" 30 ft in ANY direction a do an attack.
No mention of anything related to the terrain, your move options or acrobatique check.
It's pretty much like Genji dash from overwatch. (well, the greater version at least for the attack on every targets).
The things is: Is it cool to be able to dash towards a flying enemy? Yes. Cool > RAW ;p

(P.S.: There are some few effect that allows you to move AND do a 5ft sidestep)

Horror adventure way of dealing with it is... too extreme I think, but understandable.

A few things to remember that, unlike real life:
- Alignment is tangible (Detect Alignment spells)
- Alignment is not fixed (Alignment can change) (True IRL)
- Spells and effects (Or even good old endoctrinement) can forcefully change alignment. (Helm of reverse alignment, casting spells with a descriptor.)
- Strong act are aligned (Pathfinder Unchained alignment feats)
- Character don't see (for most of them) their alignment change, they don't have access to their sheet and the values on it. (So no "Damn, I lost 3 Good point, how can I artificially raise it"? (Giving 1 million to charity or casting good spell just to become Good again is a totally selfish and metagamy (If you can't detect your own alignment) act...)

Self sacrifice is a Good act, yes. Self sacrifice for a bad reason is not (Suicide bomber...).

Bacteria and Radiation are Neutral forces... Not being made of Evil matter.

Act are not always Good or Evil, they can be Neutral (with a capital N). Repeated Neutral acts will make you neutral in the long run. Neutral act can be the product of a Good act for an Evil reason (casting Good spell for "selfish" reason. Or Evil act for Good reason ("Yes... you did save him, but you still stole my kidney")

Alignment and character RP are intertwined. If the RP change, the alignment change. If the Alignment change by itself, shouldn't the RP too ?

P.S.: Necromancy is not Evil. Using souls as power source is. Simply putting them away is not.

Don't get me wrong, I too find that just casting one or two spell and *poof* you change alignment is silly.

What I'm saying is that the intention are as important as the act. Kicking puppy to fuel a spell that will ultimately save a bunch of people don't make you a good people, not 100%.
It's not because you give 10 million to charity that you are less someone that committed a genocide (That would make you "neutral" at most if you are truly genuine in your donation).
An other thing. The player is not the character. Not really. They don't see their alignment changing (if no-one with the right spell can tell them) nor do they care (often) about it.
Good/Evil is a question of morality. The more you do evil act, the less you see the next one as a bad tradeoff. ("Well, I killed 200 people already, what's a few dozen more?")

You cast a "Good" spell for an "Evil" act? That's two different act by themselves.
Like the dark side, evil is easy, good is hard XD

I think that's exactly the problem.
There is a difference between RAW, RAI and RP.
Infernal healing is the best example.
RAW? It's the best heal ever in a wand.
RAI? It's supposed to be some kind of temptation.
RP? No good being that know what it would touch it with a 10f pole. It's like using nazi blood in a ritual that the nazi themselves created.
If the cost was "virgin blood", that would be the same, because: Who cares? There is no price so you got how many litter of that thing you need.
I think some veterans are so jaded that they simply forget to see past the rules and into the RP of the things they do simply because "THaT's NoT iN tHe RuLz".

Sorry for that "outburst" ¬¬

For me, doing "Evil" act in the name of "Good" make you lose your "Good" status and in the territory of "Neutral", because you did put aside your moral. But you are not "Evil" because you did it for the "Good". Like The Punisher for example.

So... After a remark of Derklord, I got two questions that popped into my head. (fused into one topic because ecology and the first question will not last that long)

1) We know that a creature that got zombified/skeletified can't be resurrected. But can the body of a resurrected creature be zombified/skeletified ?

2) Why can't divine casters cast spells of opposite alignment ? Is that because it's an act of THAT alignment ? Does casting 20 time an arcane spell tagged "evil" slowly turn and corrupt the soul of the caster ? How does that interact with wands ?

Bonus: Is committing an act of evil for the greater good an: Evil, Neutral or Good act ?

According to a quick google that lead to RPG stackexchange:

Casting an evil spell is an evil act, but for most characters simply casting such a spell once isn’t enough to change her alignment; this only occurs if the spell is used for a truly abhorrent act, or if the caster established a pattern of casting evil spells over a long period. A wizard who uses animate dead to create guardians for defenseless people won’t turn evil, but he will if he does it over and over again. The GM decides whether the character’s alignment changes, but typically casting two evil spells is enough to turn a good creature nongood, and three or more evils spells move the caster from nongood to evil. The greater the amount of time between castings, the less likely alignment will change. Some spells require sacrificing a sentient creature, a major evil act that makes the caster evil in almost every circumstance.

Those who are forbidden from casting spells with an opposed alignment might lose their divine abilities if they circumvent that restriction (via Use Magic Device, for example), depending on how strict their deities are.

Though this advice talks about evil spells, it also applies to spells with other alignment descriptors.

Yeah... Go infernal healing... right

Shaman are good ^^

Seems legit.
The only remark I could make is that you can't use a shield as both a weapon and a shield without specific feats. But that's my "DM interpretation".

Oradin (Paladin + Oracle)
Got the survivability for the group.
High Cha => Cha skills

Also, infernal healing, if effective in term of RAW is a bad choice in term of RP... (It more or less turn you bit per bit evil even if the rules "don't say so")

P.S.: Don't listen too much to the "Healing is overrated", sometimes, when your frontliner got crited, the only thing that can save the party is a good heal ;p
P.P.S.: The most important build is one that you find fun! Optimisation is optional ;p

This question is SOOOOOO build dependent.
The character with animal companion or war familiar will be on top thanks to the fighting buddy presence.
A specialised fear based dazzling display Vigilante will be able to end the fight in the whole bar in 2-3 rounds (half his level d4 each round as non lethal at a 9m range (30 feets))
Classes that don't need weapons (unarmed fighters, or natural attackers) or can spontaneously produce one (Gloomblade fighters) are obviously fine.
Sneaky characters with Hellcats stealth will simply shout "STEALTH!" and backstab everyone unnoticed.

The 1/2 bab class are at the most disadvantaged, but... it's also SO build dependent (as some of them have utilities that don't consume ressources).

Also, most commoners are level 1-3...

"Word of god"
All ability increasing effect increase everything retroactively

In programming, each feats/features would check the amount of sneak dice one at a time, subtracting the amount they need/want before passing the rest to the next one.
RAW is quite close to programming.

Also, the feats/features talk about forgetting dice to gain something, not gain something each time you "forgot" a dice.

Awesome.

Just awesome.

The only complaint I "could" have is that the polymoph effect is quite "limited". But that's really just a detail.

Autorisation to "steal" that build for (maybe) latter use? ^^

Chaotic good Kitsune Vigilante who's active name is Nagirrek (my DM refused that I call my civilian identity "Ronyar" XD).
Currently level 5 in Crimson Throne.

A natural attacks overload build in the making (fully only at level 9) with a dirty tricks backup that will be incorporated latter (level 13) and the capacity to infiltrate anywhere (+40 in disguise if I take any human shape since level 1, I can be more real than the guy himself :3)

Playing with a Paladin of Iomedae that forgot that telling the henchmen that we are here to arrest their boss will surely results in a fight, a cleric of Milany that I woo and is by far the most important member of the group because she is keeping us alive, and a sorcerer specialised in electricity and sound that we need to drag to the action to prevent her to be far away from said action because she thought that trying to get reinforcement from the guard is a good idea when we only have a few minutes to act. ^^

(My next character will need to be far more serious ^^)

*. *
What is it, what is it?

The objective is to emulate as close as possible the capacities of a succubus, bonus point if grabbing ready and/or good aligned.

The things to emulate:
Claws attacks
Polymoph
"Spell list"
(Dark vision?)

Bloodrager Kitsune cover a great deal of the whole. But is lacking in the "dominate person" deal until very late.

So. How can one build a SiaG PC? (To BE the succubus that grapple ;p)
I thought about starting with a kitsune, because of the polymoph power (becoming anyone (human) thanks to a single feat) with a first level of Vigilante for the +20 to disguise check (talent: Seamless Chapechanger) and a focus on getting Magical tails (to access domination early with the Nine-tailed Scion trait)

What's next?
Is my start even right?

No 3rd party. PFS legal optional.

#66
The brand new wrestling club is looking for new members, come numerous! ;D

#67
Whoever thought that was a bright ideas to turn the nearby dragon into a little girl must immediately contact the authority to:
First: acquire his transmutation diploma Second: find a solution to the pissed off little girl with huge natural magical ability problem that don't know anything about transmutation, but A LOT about evocation.

FWI:
Purifying Channel to both heal and damage enemies ^^
(Making healing a very good job!)
(Also, don't listen to the one that say "healer are useless", they never got saved from death by one)

I don't think the Rowboat nor the branch are on the "portable" side of things!
Potion sponge of any underwater useful potion!

The bracers only talk about "weapons", not "manufactured weapons", right?

So, Mithal Rose are for people with natural weapons... got it!

Alternatively, one could invest in a Mithal Rose
It's silver only thou

#61 [A note that only non-magic users can see]

Still can't cast even the most basic prestidigitation tricks ? You really want to date that beautiful Wizard but you are a no good non-gifted person? Join the R.O.G.U.E ! We are a non profit organizations that will help you fool anyone thanks to a few wands and some pyrotechnics ! Want to cast a "fireball"? We got grenades ! Some bully try to make you miserable ? You will learn with us the "spell" "fistinyourguts" !
Want to be a member of R.O.G.U.E.? Just follow the white rabbits graffiti ;p

Rogue is at least going to be a sneaky stabby skill guy.

That's where you are slightly wrong. You CAN play an effective rogue in heavy armour that make use of non lethal damage and a 2-handed bludgeoning weapon.

NOTICE TO ALL STUDENTS AND FACULTY:
A local demon binder lost one of his succubus.
She look like your perfect mate and may try to suck your soul if not careful. If you find her, please refrain from trying to grab her (that may or may not end badly), and immediately contact the nearest member of the authority.

.

Willing to do the impossible to discover the rules of the universe?
Apply to a position of Wizard-Scientist at The Wizard of the Beach Corporation!

Ifrit oozemorph with ifrit magic.
Nothing say psychological horror like:
"Didn't that little girl just turned into a 3m blob with tentacles? ... Yamete?"

So... slipstream plus a pack of salt XD
(Don't say how salty it needs to be ;p)