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In the game rules, 'automatically' means without any further checks needed. So 'automatically grab' would be to succeed at the grab action without needing a check. Much like 'automatically hit'.

I agree with you, which is how the debate started in the first place. With the Remaster rules, strictly speaking, you cannot automatically succeed on a Grab, it has no check. You just do it. And as part of doing it, you make a Grapple attempt as a subordinate action, which means making an Athletics check.

I think the reasonable interpretation is that "automatically" carries down to the subordinate Grapple attempt. My friend thinks if that was the rules intent, they would have updated the statblock when they updated Grab to make a Grapple attempt, and since they didn't, the Grapple check is required.

It the ability didn't just directly apply the grabbed condition the creature would probably always take the other of the two and knock the target prone every time instead.

The Wyvern has another ability that requires it to have grabbed a creature previously on the same turn, so it does have an incentive to grab vs. knock prone.

But I agree with you in that I don't think that incentive merits requiring an athletics check when knocking prone doesn't.

What 'automatically' means is that it happens without any further driving force needed.

In game terms, 'automatically Grab' would mean that they do the Grab action without any further checks needed.

You've illustrated why I think this needs covered by errata, but not what you think the result of that errata should be.

Effect If used after a Strike, the monster attempts to Grapple the creature using the body part it attacked with.

The Grab action involves a subordinate Grapple check. So what does it mean to automatically "do" the Grab action?

You can resolve this by removing "automatically", making it more clear that it's referencing the Grab monster ability and should follow those rules as normal; you could resolve it by specifying a degree of success ("automatically succeed to Grab the target") which still isn't technically correct but at least resolves the ambiguity; or you can resolve it by making it clear it's referring to the grabbed condition (something like, "automatically makes the target grabbed or knocked prone").

Me and another player in my group are having a (friendly) debate, and so far search has failed me in turning up any other discussion.

The question is: when a Wyvern uses Powerful Dive, do they make a Grapple attempt vs. their target ala the Grab ability, or is their target simply Grabbed more like combat grab?

If it ends the movement within melee reach of at least one enemy its size or smaller, it can make a claw Strike against that enemy. If the claw hits, as a free action the wyvern can either automatically Grab the target or knock it prone.

The other player takes the strictly literal stance; it says "Grab", not "grab" or "Grabbed", so it means the Grab ability and the Wyvern has to make an Athletics check. And "automatically" just means it happens immediately, with no reactions in between the claw attack and the Grab attempt.

I think "automatically" is there to imply automatic success, and so the the wyvern doesn't need to make the Athletics check, and that "grab" vs "Grab" is an easy mistake during writing/editing.

I also doubt that the designers looked at the Wyvern and decided the "grabbed" half of Powerful Dive needed an Athletics check but the "prone" half of it could still be done for free. Seems like it should either be "Grab or Knockdown", or "grabbed or knocked prone".

So, what do folks here think?

EDIT: There's one other Monster Core entry that has this conflict, the Deadly Mantis and its Leaping Grab ability.

I'm not going through a 30 point check list to determine if something is alchemical food.

I don’t think anyone is advocating for or asking for a 30 point check list. I clicked on this thread wondering what does and doesn’t pass other people’s vibe check and why, and I feel like that was the main spirit of the original post.

For me, I did a deep dive because I was curious, but the outcome is relatively simple. It’s how I intend to GM, and also how I determined what I would and wouldn’t ask my GM for.
- Written as food? Easy yes.
- Written as food- or cooking-related (e.g. Blindpepper Tube, Emetic Paste)? Easy yes.
- Written to be ingested? You can probably reflavor it as food/drink.
- Make a reasonable case for food reflavor (e.g. sweating smells instead of wearing perfume)? You can probably flavor it as food/drink, maybe with higher difficulty or cost.

I arrived here because of some specific examples.
- Lastwall Soup, Moon Radish Soup, and Mender’s Soup. Three soups, three different “official” item categories. To me, this makes it clear that “It’s official alchemical food” isn’t enough.
- Capsaicin Tonic, Blindpepper Tube, Timeless Salts, and Rust Scrub. To me, these prove there are things that a chef should absolutely be able to make, but that aren’t meant to be food.
- Fury Cocktail and Bestial Mutagen, among other comparisons. To me, this illustrates there’s no mechanical divide between food and non-food, and so probably fine to just allow most elixirs.

Just took Wandering Chef in a Kingmaker campaign, and I did a lot of digging so my GM wouldn’t have to. My thoughts.

A couple points in response to the folks who say they wouldn’t include “all elixirs” as food.
1. What makes the Animalistic Fury Cocktail acceptable as food, but the Bestial Mutagen not acceptable? (Edit: Or, Firefoot Popcorn acceptable, but Energy Mutagen not?) I think any reason besides “flavor text” has to address this satisfactorily.
2. What makes the Apricot of Bestial Might an elixir at all?
3. The Seasoned skill feat seems to imply that all elixirs and potions count as drinks. This would qualify all elixirs as alchemical food, and all potions as magical morsels (a whole other “what counts as?” question)

Also, a few other items worth considering. Are they food? No, or at least debatable. Would I let a Wandering Chef make them if I were GM? Absolutely yes.
- Capsaicin Tonic. It’s literally pepper seeds, and the baseline effect allows you to eat spicy foods with ease for an hour.
- Blindpepper Tube. Basically an alchemically-weaponized pepper grinder.
- Dark Pepper Powder, and Sneezing Powder. One literally says it’s a spice, and I see no reason to exclude the other.
- Artevil Suspension. They’re dried herbs.
- Timeless Salts. Literally for food preservation.
- Emetic Paste. Food poisoning remedy++.
- Rust Scrub. Obviously not meant for eating, but made from salt and citrus juice, and chefs absolutely might need to get rust off of cookware.
- A bunch of items with the Olfactory trait (and Feyfoul, which probably should have the Olfactory trait). A bit of a stretch compared to the rest of the list. But if you can smell consumed garlic from someone’s sweat, I don’t see why alchemical smells couldn’t be produced as foods instead of perfumes.

Lastly, all the explicitly (by flavor text) food items I found that were not in the Alchemical Food category on the Archives (and thus, I assume, not published as alchemical food).
- Lastwall Soup
- Boulderhead Bock
- Bravo's Brew
- Ambrosia of Undying Hope
- Apricot of Bestial Might
- Dragon's Blood Pudding
- Moon Radish Soup
- Dark Pepper Powder
- Impossible Cake
- Brewer's Regret
- Alcohol
- Bloodeye Coffee
- Matsuki's Medicinal Wine
- Dreamtime Tea
- Alkenstar Ice Wine
- Elven Absinthe
- Fire and Iceberg
- Slumber Wine