Chaylafaysky's page

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Snowblind wrote:
It is written to be compatible with Dungeons and Dragons edition 3.5. Hence what Elves of Golarion says is irrelevant to the Pathfinder RPG unless a Pathfinder RPG compatible material says otherwise.

Ahhh... This is a logical argument that comes to a conclusion that I can live with.

Claiming that "Pathfinder" was specifically made to be *compatible with 3.5 D&D*, rather than saying that *Pathfinder IS 3.5*, is a technical loophole in the language that is perfectly logical, and makes sense. It is a loophole that I will accept, without any further debate on the issue.

"Pathfinder®" was a product written before "Pathfinder RPG", and it was specifically made to be *compatible* with 3.5. So, they can be considered separate settings, like Jericho says. (I did say that the argument could be made that they were different editions, which was kind of close)

I guess that my whole disagreement with Jeraa simply lies in the difference between "Elves of Golarion is 3.5" (which I consider to be wrong, because 3.5 is D&D, not Pathfinder, two different licensed products, made by different companies) - and "Elves of Golarion, and all other Pathfinder products made before 2009, were made to be compatible with 3.5, not the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game." (I make the distinction because Paizo created Pathfinder materials using the 3.5 OGL, not under an actual license from WotC, therefore their material is not 3.5 material, but rather "compatible with" 3.5 material).

I guess my disagreement just boiled down to a small technical difference, I'm sorry if anyone was offended - but the little details like that matter greatly to me. BTW - Accepting this logic, means that I need to rescind my vote that "elves in the Pathfinder setting officially trance for 4 hours to rest, as it is written." - I was wrong about that.

Thank you to the individuates who spoke to me with logical arguments, rather than attempt to insult me without any meaningful discussion.


Gauss wrote:

Chaylafaysky,

You are confusing Pathfinder (Companion) with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
They are not the same thing.

Try reading the inside cover of pre-2009 books (such as the Elves of Golarion) and then compare it to the later books.
They start with being compatible with 3.5 and then moves to being compatible with Pathfinder Roleplaying Game or 3.5.

Prior to 2009 there were no Pathfinder Roleplaying Game publications.
The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game did not happen until WoTC announced that they were shutting down 3.5 in favor of 4e and then announced that the OGL would not make the move.

Elves not sleeping is part of the 3.5 books, not the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules.

Really?... "Pathfinder" and "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game" are two completely different games! is your defense?

Fine, have it your way. They are two different gaming systems, I'm not even going to try to argue the semantics of that - But, even by that definiton, "Elves of Golarion" is still a "Pathfinder" product, not "a 3.5 product" - it specifically states that "This product is compliant with the Open Game License (OGL) and is suitable for use with the 3.5 edition of the world’s most popular fantasy roleplaying game." - this note means that it is compatible with the 3.5 edition D&D rules - not that it IS a 3.5 D&D product.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Unless, of course, someone can prove otherwise.

You might be right... I do not play PFS - but if it is based off of the corebook, and does not take into account any previously printed rules, then maybe they went with 8 hour sleeping elves - I recall that James (a big-wig at Paizo specifically made some comment about wanting to "get away" from D&D elves, so maybe that's why it's not mentioned in the corebook, and so many people assume the "sleeping" elves)?

Even in 2nd edition AD&D there were core rules, and optional rules... Elves of Golarion is a "Companion" book, and could certainly be considered "optional", rather than "standard" - so there is a case for what you say.

Since I don't play PFS, I'll just take your word for it :)


Gauss wrote:

Chaylafaysky, you are wrong.

Golarion was written for 3.5 rules prior to 2009 and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules beginning in 2009.

There were no Pathfinder Roleplaying Game publications prior to 2009. The Paizo transition from 3.5 publications to Pathfinder Roleplaying Game publications occurred during 2009.

Elves of Golarion was published in 2008. It is written for 3.5, not the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.

Check the dates.

Nope, you are wrong - you can't go just by dates, you have to look at the brand names, and who owned what licenses with the dates.

"Golarion was written for 3.5 rules prior to 2009 and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules beginning in 2009." Between 2007 and 2009, Pathfinder used updated 3.5 edition rules, it says so in their wiki.

"There were no Pathfinder Roleplaying Game publications prior to 2009." Wrong - their wiki says that they released "Pathfinder periodicals" between 2007 and 2009.

"Elves of Golarion was published in 2008. It is written for 3.5, not the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game." Wrong - The book is not called "Elves of Golarion" - it is named "Pathfinder Companion: Elves of Golarion" <--- notice the trademark "Pathfinder" right in the name of the book?... Hum?...


Jeraa wrote:
Quote:

I believe that you are wrong.

Golarion is the Pathfinder campaign setting world, isn't it?... I don't recall Wizards of the Coast creating a world called "Golarion"...

And,... As far as I am aware, there was no "Pathfinder 3.5 edition"... 3.5 edition was "D&D" made by Wizards of the Coast, not Pathfinder, which was made by Paizo, right?...

Paizo wrote "Elves of Golarion", not Wizards of the Coast... and they call it "Elves of Golarion", not "Elves of Faerun"...

So how can anyone get that "Elves of Golarion" is a 3.5 edition book?

Even if Paizo wants to get away from 3.5 edition "non-sleeping elves", they still wrote the book, which includes the chapter that Ishmell quoted, saying that elves trance for 4 hours to rest.

I call that official. It's in an official Piazo book regarding elves.

So my vote is that elves in the Pathfinder setting officially trance for 4 hours to rest, as it is written. - Of course, Rule 0 always applies, and if a DM wants the elves in his world to have to sleep, then by all means, they need to sleep.

Golarion pre-dates the Pathfinder RPG (by about 2 years, I think). It was originally written as a setting based on 3.5 D&D rules. You can check the publishing dates on Elves of Golarion and the first printing of the Pathfinder Core Rules to see that. Or look in Elves of Golarion, and you will find references to skills that do not exist in Pathfinder (the stats for elves in the book include bonuses to Spot and Listen, which do not exist in Pathfinder as they were combined into Perception).

It is a 3.5 edition book because it was written using the 3.5 edition rules. It doesn't matter who made it.

If you are going to tell someone they are wrong, at least make sure you are right first.

I did a little more research, and I still believe that you are wrong.

I also admit that I was wrong about something too, but first - It seems to me that are saying that the "Elves of Golarion" book was written for 3.5 D&D, not for "Pathfinder"... I can disprove that easily - the name of the book, printed right on its cover is: "Pathfinder Companion: Elves of Golarion"

The very title of the book, says that it is a Pathfinder book.

According to the Paizo wiki: "Paizo was publishing Dungeons and Dragon magazine under contract with Wizards of the Coast, who held the rights to D&D. Wizards of the Coast chose not to renew the contract in early 2007, and Paizo began publishing the Pathfinder periodical line as a replacement."

This clearly means that in "early 2007", Paizo stopped working for WotC, and began printing "Pathfinder" materials, and that the first products that Paizo were releasing used updated 3.5 rules under the OGL - This means that Pathfinder used "updated 3.5 D&D rules" at first (and it was jokingly named D&D 3.75) until the CoreBook was published in 2009.

The first materials published as "Pathfinder" are not branded as "3.5 D&D", they are branded as "Pathfinder" because Paizo was no longer under license from WotC - and "Elves of Golarion" is a Pathfinder rulebook. So you saying "it's 3.5" is either you saying "it's 3.5 D&D" which is blatantly wrong, or you saying "It's 3.5 Pathfinder"... which is admitting that it is Pathfinder... Right?

You could make the argument that since Elves of Golarion came out before the Pathfinder Corebook, that it's a "first edition" rulebook, and that the Pathfinder Corebook is in-fact a "second edition" rulebook, since it came out with the newly modified rules that changed the previous Pathfinder rules.

Either way, you were either wrong, or you were saying that it is Pathfinder, which I do not believe you meant.

Getting back to me, I was wrong (as I admitted) about there not being a "3.5 edition Pathfinder", as all Pathfinder materials between 2007 and 2009 were based on the 3.5 edition D&D OGL rules - I didn't know that.


Jeraa wrote:
Ishmell wrote:
Its talked about it Elves of Golarion. Not sure if its official or not but...** spoiler omitted **

Elves of Golarion is a 3.5 edition book. It wasn't written for Pathfinder.

Elves did trance in 3.5 because it specifically said they did in the racial description in the Player's Handbook.

I believe that you are wrong.

Golarion is the Pathfinder campaign setting world, isn't it?... I don't recall Wizards of the Coast creating a world called "Golarion"...

And,... As far as I am aware, there was no "Pathfinder 3.5 edition"... 3.5 edition was "D&D" made by Wizards of the Coast, not Pathfinder, which was made by Paizo, right?...

Paizo wrote "Elves of Golarion", not Wizards of the Coast... and they call it "Elves of Golarion", not "Elves of Faerun"...

So how can anyone get that "Elves of Golarion" is a 3.5 edition book?

Even if Paizo wants to get away from 3.5 edition "non-sleeping elves", they still wrote the book, which includes the chapter that Ishmell quoted, saying that elves trance for 4 hours to rest.

I call that official. It's in an official Piazo book regarding elves.

So my vote is that elves in the Pathfinder setting officially trance for 4 hours to rest, as it is written. - Of course, Rule 0 always applies, and if a DM wants the elves in his world to have to sleep, then by all means, they need to sleep.