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Note that most summoning spells no longer bring a real creature from elsewhere to fight for you; they do create one, albeit briefly. This was to avoid moral/ethical issues. The meta behind such spells remains vague, suggesting a sort of platonic ideal your spell taps into and replicates.
They almost have to being banks and such, but with wealth tied so strongly to combat power loans could pose an issue. For PCs, there's almost a guarantee return on investment, but for "adventurers" in general, I doubt it so one could say Abadar avoids loaning for such purposes. As for credit backed by actual wealth for easier portability (i.e. having an account & them issuing a bond/cd/banknote/etc. you can redeem at another Abadar temple), then I do think I've seen that in Paizo materials. That's what banks do, right? And since it only provides convenience rather than tipping any mechanical balance, I'd reckon most GMs would be fine with that. Away from civilization I wouldn't expect such flimsy wealth to carry much weight though; gold talks (as do ostentatious items).
I'd have said I was okay with the Runelords being over a decade ago, except Paizo has a way of crafting relevant stories that rejuvenate that bunch. And there's a lot of Thassilonian/Azlanti potential to explore where it'd be odd not to have Runelords make an appearance (albeit maybe not as primary enemies).
I believe there's a general rule that you can't reduce movement below 5', though that's effectively zero in most situations. With clubs (free & bludgeoning) or free improvised weapons (i.e. rocks), one could harass most oozes until facing higher level ones (where you'll have more resources, i.e. Hydraulic Push scrolls). It's not like hitting is an issue, so most everybody could contribute. Which is why oozes have so many hit points which might make it too expensive to kill via alchemy alone. Of course designers typically optimize the situation for an ooze so it's difficult to kite like that and oozes often Grab or Engulf.
The final boss might instead be whatever's behind the country's environmental issues. Whether that's tied to Razmir (or his replacement) trying for apotheosis or to outside (perhaps divine/anti-atheist) forces would be the question. I'm reminded of Skull & Shackles where the climactic fleet battle was vs. Cheliax while the AP finale arose from a separate track. And Razmir's replacement might in most ways be Razmir. I could see him embedding himself within an artifact or possessing others. Or even already usurped by a council, making Razmir a broader entity (or even a puppet). With all the lies, there are many ways to explore this, the toughest part being the author treading around tropes (as best one can) so as to avoid predictability. This might require flexibility so GMs can tailor the answer in the opposite direction of where players/PCs think the conspiracy suggest. Hmm.
An interesting notion occurred to me that even if someone (PCs) dethrones/kills Razmir, that might not end the cult. Earth has many examples where religious leaders were killed, yet their followers persisted (albeit after losses). Arguably a majority of religions began this way (though never our own favorite one of course).
A "kill Razmir" AP might be more interesting if the PCs faced Razmir before the final book (likely the penultimate one since he is 19th+ level with a wealthy country's resources). Who knows, maybe he was only the figurehead for more sinister forces?* Or maybe keeping a country together is a max-level task?
Because they're complex for a 1st PC, not because they're weak. Though IMO an archer is about as simple as it gets so Starlit Span Magus isn't that complex on most rounds. I too would recommend against one in melee (at least until after playing a melee PC, maybe a caster PC too).
Yes, the item being discussed, Ghost Oil, lacks that problem (according to AoN). So not an issue for this thread. I still find it a stopgap solution when Astral Runes are strong enough I'd favor them on non-precision martials too. I sympathize with your point re: two-handed oils, but that'd be a topic for a new thread or addition to the Spring 2026 errata thread someone just started. It seems even Remaster Oils have this issue, so yes, I'd presume Paizo meant it's because you're holding the oil & the object to be oiled (so as to be able to cover all portions rather than splash it on).
"Just because our daily prep differs, doesn't mean our powers aren't coming from Razmir Himself!"
Sure, there will be those who may have forgotten their prayers only to discover they're as empowered as usual, but they also might attest that to Razmir's faith for their previous dedication. "Won't happen again!" There are two factors to adjust for: one, we're seeing this objectively, from a meta-POV, rather from how it'd look on the ground. There's a lot to unpack from Razmir's lies before hitting bedrock that belies Razmir's true nature. As noted above, he's still so powerful to most people as to effectively be godly. And two, BITE model/high-control groups can operate on a massive scale, i.e. North Korea. YouTube has videos about North Korean reactions as they disentangle themselves from the web of lies told about outsiders and their dear (essentially divine) leader. As advanced academically as Razmir is, and given the lifespans of some citizens, there's likely a stronger undercurrent knowing the truth, but how much of that is public? It seems the cult hierarchy would attract two of the worst types, the blindly devoted and those faithless wanting to exploit the devoted and the power structure as a whole. Yuk. I'm reminded of something I've heard several prominent atheists say; that is if they did lack morals as some apologists assert, they wouldn't be playing the atheist role. They'd have become prosperity gospel megapastors or famous ex-atheist converts with a million dollar book. It was because they had morals they didn't exploit the believing masses. Not sure how massive these masses are in Razmir though. How long before such token narratives entrench themselves as truth? (Especially with access to divination magic, outsiders, and Outsiders.)
It’s a great rune but ghost oil is often enough. At least if your DM isn’t insane enough to make you drop your weapon on the ground first to apply it. Why would a GM having an item work as written require insanity? Sounds like a dubious demand on your part just to get to "often enough". Yet we're talking about three classes that typically use one-handed weapons so they should have fewer issues applying oils than others. Except the oil still uses two actions, which is costly IMO. And the Astral Rune comes with extra damage to most critters. It's simply better, albeit for later levels. So maybe I'd use the oil as a patch until then, but I also dislike making my primary weapon useless against corporeal creatures, even if just a minute. Versus mixed enemies I wouldn't bother and in a dynamic dungeon, I wouldn't risk it. Heck, that enemy might just be an illusion or Haunt.
Bard. Both are strong classes in a standard party, but a Bard's Compositions increase in value the more allies they have. And you have a lot. Plus, as a new player, their durability allows for more tactical errors. A Sorcerer (as do other 6 h.p. classes) has to play wiser, while you're already tackling a learning curve. Unlike in 3.X/PF1/5.0, in PF2 tactics & party synergy matter more than builds (esp. auto-win builds). Bard have the most natural synergy, so yeah, Bard. One plus of playing a Sorcerer here is it is a party w/ two Clerics and a Guardian, meaning you'd be quite protected if you did need to scratch that itch. Emphasis on "need" as you don't yet know what difficulty level your GM runs at or how they address adjustments for party size. Since both the casters are Divine, I think a 3rd caster works fine (and avoids frontline clutter, esp. if that Minotaur will be Large. There are plenty of effective & tricky Occult spells you'll have access to that they won't. As mentioned, you can grab a bow to spend spare actions on, though often you'll want to cast a Cantrip + Composition (or Demoralize, Recall Knowledge, etc.). Check with the Rogue & Investigator what skills they're both covering (between them they'll likely cover all the important ones once already, so it's to avoid tripling up). Likely there will be a Cha skill you can call your own.
My memory might be failing me, but I believe in the playtest elementals had Precision Immunity. In one chapter, there were many elementals, and they tore up my players' PCs because of this immunity. Thankfully Paizo pulled back on that for oh-so-common elementals! And I did learn to question having 2+ PCs who rely on Precision Damage in the same party. I doubt PFS accounts for this though, so there could be quite lopsided fights depending on party composition (especially as I'd imagine Rogues being quite popular for all the skill challenges). Much like many other Immunities were lessened to Resistances, maybe Paizo should've followed suit here w/ scaling based on level. But...if there's no weak spot, nowhere special to strike w/ precision, what does this represent in game? And a standard scaling of 5 at low level up to 20 at high level already neutralizes most Precision Damage, so how much would really be gained? (Outside of crits, which I believe most creatures immune to Precision Damage are also immune to.) In 3.X/PF1 I'd always emphasized players to have a secondary trick for when their primary one meets an immunity, i.e. tripping snakes. Yet I'm unsure there's a smooth solution here for standard-trope builds despite having a few builds in mind. Do all Dex-Rogues & Swashbucklers need to carry abnormal amounts of alchemy? Maybe in the same way full plate martials need an answer to ranged battles. And how much of a Rogue's awesomeness/damage output was balanced around them having hiccups like this?
Escapes and tactical retreats are difficult to coordinate, especially if (as I run at my tables) the players talk to each other through their PCs (meaning enemies can hear, which can encourage using codewords or sharing an unusual language). That's not the primary difficulty, it's that combats run so fast. The party pretty much has to go in knowing exactly how they'll get out in one round.
At lower levels, doors help a lot. So somebody calling retreat might run to a door and Ready an Action to shut it when the last PC exits. Other PCs might toss down obstacles, Ready to spike the door shut, etc. Which is to say it's quite difficult to execute AND that's if players can discern and agree upon when they should run! If running requires having downed PCs, that only exacerbates issues. If PCs run too soon, that's giving enemies time to adjust & coordinate or by spending actions fleeing they might lose a battle they didn't know they were winning. Note this is for a more freeform campaign with more level/threat variance. In an AP, having emergency consumables and PCs prepared to cover for each other would likely work better than full flight. Battles will be (generally) tighter, yet manageable enough the PCs learn to push through, so players won't likely know to escape until the dominoes have already begun falling. One important point IMO is that all PCs, even the pacifists or supporters, should have a significant offensive option (if just for emergencies) or maybe a Wall spell. If contributing vicariously through other PCs, great, PF2 rewards that, but they'll need to contribute when their favorite PC is out of play too.
The difference with Kineticists is fresh rookies can alter landscapes. They could make significant changes to the narrative/geography/setting from level 1, if made available as unnamed NPC labor; which I'm asserting they shouldn't be despite being Common. And if a team of PC Kineticists set their minds to it, yeah, that'd become an issue (and likely reroute a campaign, for better or worse). And in 1E they had been popular (with quite a clamoring for their return). While they were "offscreen" in PF2 until Rage of Elements, I don't think that Paizo retconned them away in the interim. But with PF2 NPCs seldom using PC builds, such NPC "Kineticists for hire" could be considered morphed to lack such abilities. I consider Rahadoum's desertification as coming from hostile forces (likely fiendish and/or divine), hence their prolonged struggle. Or maybe the Eye pulls away its precipitation?
Various Kineticists could shorten that time to years, if not months. If available that is. While they're Common mechanically, thematically it's probably best for a campaign world if they were unavailable for such terrain-altering shenanigans (et al). Of course casters can do similar things, but at higher levels & for fewer instances; occasions often worthy of a minstrel's song.
Whip amplifies the value of Guardian's Deflection, a gem at 4th level, and likely to make you friends at a table of random players. With new Bravado rules & Reach, you should be able to attack with a Finisher every round from a relatively safe position (as front lines go) or in awkward spaces where a random party is still learning to coordinate. So yeah, a whip works whether or not you use its Trip/Disarm capabilities. Which I wouldn't anyway in typical situations since I'd avoid abilities that increase MAP before my Finisher unless especially needed. Which is to say I'd avoid Gymnast or Rascal and go for a Style that feeds your Panache w/o such a drawback. Even w/ a mediocre Charisma (or a low one which can be patched with Assurance), the other Styles should get you Panache every round. As should Acrobatics anyway, so no need to fret over Style. I'd recommend a buckler too, though there are so many competitive low-level feats so I can understand skipping it. But maybe retrain for it if going to 10th+ because Buckler Dance is a great Stance. And remember a good secondary bow since you have Dex. It goes against the standard Swashbuckler tropes, but who knows what kind of ranged resources a random party might have and PFS likes odd combats. Arrows will also give you access to metal attacks if needed for specific enemy Weaknesses or Regeneration (which a whip won't address well and a random party might lack). This and some of the other advice would differ if playing routinely with a party that develops synergy.
Not all creatures with an alignment had an ideology much less have to share them with others of the same alignment. And most ideologies could manifest among various alignments, even conflicting ones. So there's been no "existential loss of ideology" in PF. If anything, removing the shorthand of alignment has created space/need for ideologies to stand out. In a keystone 2nd ed D&D module there was a group of wizards puzzled by how alignment wasn't the best determiner of which species got along with one another. They were so puzzled they oversaw several dungeon levels monitoring and mixing to figure this out. Which is to say even in-game some had recognized culture > alignment. I believe Planescape made this even clearer with all the internal fighting in the Outer Ring, including violence among Lawful Good factions (which still kind of baffles me, but RPGs did spawn from war games). And on aligned planes there were pantheons with diverse alignments making their homes there, "aligned" more by their roots than what a Know Alignment spell would say. Now combinations like the noble-hearted hero with a greedy streak (i.e. Dwarf tropes) don't contend with a LG/CN imbalance. The rascal hero isn't obliged to demonstrate the whole set of chaotic traits, nor is the stoic one obliged to respect law & order. I hope Paizo & adventure authors recognize the need to fill the gap, and it appears with dragons they have. I'd like most creatures (and all named individuals) to have a sentence describing their basic worldview, perhaps even a quote that epitomizes their nature, their voice. But that's not a new need IMO, I've appreciated that for decades when authors add that, even when it's just tactical.
That's a great catch. There are still reasons one might Delay (and perhaps too much of that depends on meta-knowledge of when the Commander goes), but it's no longer a given for the most common Tactics.
Any bonuses to damage would have to be offset by penalties so the net result remains the same, such is the tight balance of PF2's numbers. A proportion of damage is random/dice and the rest is static/bonuses. PF2 is a bit more consistent there than PF1 where weapon dice via size & energy damage (often Holy) were about the only ways to increase the random portion. I remember being stunned that weapon dice increase in PF2, "That's so much!", but this was alongside "DR from a shield!" so there was a legit tension in one's weapon choices (later noticing the importance of free hands & how some feats/equipment that made that valuable). So while having the net result end up the same seems feeble to me, it's better than trying to increase the dice via size without an offsetting bonus to other choices. And I'm saying this as someone who loved piling up my weapon dice in PF1. And introducing bonuses to alternate options is too much of an overhaul! (Never mind its rippling effects on everything else.) So while size matters psychologically, even narratively, it shouldn't matter mechanically; too late for that. PF2's parts are too tuned for one cog to swell in importance. Yes, there can be a disconnect looking at a giant's 1d4 dagger next to a Halfling's 1d12 greatsword, but in play much of that washes away, i.e. giant's seldom use daggers and a Halfling with a greatsword will typically be an astounding anomaly much like those thin anime heroes stronger than beefy brawlers. Then there's how hit points are only partially physical anyway, much of it being plot armor and/or preternatural ability, which implies increases in damage might have similar elements beyond the weight of one's weapon.
I thought the rarity system explicitly *wasn’t* supposed to be about in combat power. I hadn't referenced combat power, had I? The Treasure Vault is notorious for its leniency, some have said sloppiness. The updated version fixed some instances thankfully. In this instance it's about the imbalance of action-item efficiency, mirroring that of the Uncommon gloves/belts I did reference (and the gloves which have long been a staple item). I don't find the Potion Patch particularly powerful, but when a new item changes the metagame so much there should be reservations which I think the Uncommon trait addresses. Hmm, or maybe it is power creep and should be nixed? Also the narrative-RPGer in me balks at heroes suddenly spamming patches as if it's a fashion fad. If anything, this means wealthy NPCs expecting battle on a given day should also be sporting them, especially those whose tactics mention drinking a potion (like say Invisibility to escape where saving actions and avoiding Reactive Strikes is critical). Giants and others that carry manufactured magic items should want these too for raids, but what are the chances we'll ever a Potion Patch in a published adventure? Practically zero. The fad should've spread far and wide...unless explained by them being Uncommon. Reminds me of a situation GMing Deadlands where there's a cheap piece of equipment for +1 to a gun's attacks. I said I'd let the PCs buy them if the players let the NPCs equip them. The players refrained.
It's that unarmed attacks are not weapons, natural or otherwise. Just informing. No blame. It is something Fighters need to pay attention to too, and Twin Takedown Rangers. Hmm, "they function like weapons in every way except..." might even be misleading since those exceptions are numerous. I think Paizo kinda wrote themselves into a corner, running out of synonyms that distinguish nouns from verbs without getting too esoteric. "Unarmed type of attack" is too clunky, and apparently they wanted to avoid "weapon" on purpose though it worked as PF1 jargon and likely what a nature documentary would call them.
I will miss the aboleths, as OP as their illusions were for their level.
"Edit: let me change the perspective a little. Imagine a 4500gp permanent item that said 1 action, once per 10 minutes, quicken self (strike+stride only). Price equal to 50 quickness potions. Likely enough to last your whole career, and then some. This would be a great pickup, and probably better than most real printed items. It's even better as potions since you don't have to buy them in crazy bulk. But you can, same way you might buy that 4500gp item."
I'd buy that item, and (if it weren't so high a level item) would use it more than 50 times because I'd spam it pre-combat at most doors. :-) Saying it's better than most real printed items highlights the problem rather than supports allowing the bulk purchase. IMO this goes back more to the Potion Patch though, one of those Treasure Vault items that should've been caught in editing and made Uncommon if unchanged (if only for the same reasons as Gloves of Storing/Retrieval Belts). Look at Propulsive Boots, 3,000 g.p. for 1/day! Level 13, no Strikes, & Invested too (even though yes, it does have a mediocre speed boost). That's the baseline to measure against. --
Sure, maybe that's too granular when Paizo made a point of simplifying buying, but GMs do have to consider verisimilitude otherwise PCs could build insta-armies with their gold. (Lord knows a bunch of low-level individuals armed with splash weapons can obliterate many Troops). To clarify, I'm not against the ideas to overcome the issues, most of which would work in a higher-level world (i.e. Forgotten Realms w/ its hordes of archmagi), but I think it's unfeasible in most situations. And given the undue impact mechanically, not worth allowing anyway.
Um, okay, but why you called an unarmed attack a natural weapon isn't the point, is it? It's that unarmed attacks are not weapons, natural or otherwise. And neither are Handwraps, though they often get explicit exceptions to qualify in specific instances. Not so in this case and I'd figured you'd want to know. As for Paizo's reasoning why, naturally you'd have to ask Paizo or bypass them and ask your GM to bend the rules. Paizo encourages tables having authority anyway so they don't have to address every specific instance, like say antlers which could easily hold a Banner (it seems) or tiny weapons where a GM might disallow it (as another commenter said they'd do). If you're not going to use Brandish Tactics, consider Plant Banner.
Common for an 8th level item is different than common for a 0th level item, much like how common 8th level monsters aren't something hunters commonly run into vs. say boars and bears. And something being available differs from something being available in bulk. How many high level customers are fighting daily (or much, much more)? AND we're talking about the highest levels here when such items become affordable to the PC. That's late IMO for this melee build to come online...for a basic Strike. I'd expect to see Heightened Haste showing up around these levels instead anyway (though maybe not so much in a party with a Commander who can get those martials into position). Availability & lateness aside, one also needs a free hand holding the potion and to spend an action drinking it. Both have ramifications on build and tactics that the potion and its Strike don't warrant. Only my martials who already have a free hand would bother, and those with weapons are more likely to carry a Whetstone at the highest levels. Alley-Oop would change the dynamics, but that's a complex strategy highly dependent on the party.
Yeah, "3rd action should be Strike" (for a melee build) presupposes the Commander's in position, has built & equipped for it, and lacks enough allies to make a 1-action Tactic worthwhile. I'd say it also relies on using a two-handed weapon since they lack a damage boost. All of that, then sure, one should Strike/round. But the odds of payoff + opportunity cost don't feel worth the investment, and that's not counting the competing 3rd actions available (IF one doesn't already have to move for one's Banner to work), i.e. Bon Mot as Claxon mentioned or commanding one's animal or others from the class feats. If I did end up in the thick of things I'd rather Raise a Shield or Aid or maybe Battle Medicine. A ranged build is more feasible, though the damage remains mediocre. But hey, it's at range so it's consistent and fills an important niche in some terrains & battles. It trades out cashing in on Bulwark, but pure Dex is ultimately better anyway. As for running out of Reactions to pass out, I think most martials would prefer a Stride + guaranteed Strike attempt over no Stride + possible Strike attempt. And one can give that bonus Reaction to any such exceptional PC. While there are few reasons to have two hands free, there are many actions worth having a hand free. If one hand's already accounted for, then having one's Banner on a Free-Hand weapon in the other adds utility. OrochiFuror, "natural weapon" is a PF1 designation that might lead to thinking an unarmed attack counts as a weapon in PF2. It doesn't, so you can't put your Banner on it (w/o GM permission of course).
Yes, not making attacks yourself makes perfect sense. It's more that you're making attacks via proxy, and those attacks are better than yours. Look at the key Tactic Demoralizing Charge; it gives you two better Strikes (no MAP) and Strides to position your allies (making their turns better) and a fear effect as frosting. It's rather ridiculous IMO, but Paizo's generous to support actions. I imagine many martials would Delay to make better use of it much like for Haste. It does require two melee martial allies for best effect (and in a small party that has ramifications), but it's even worth the two actions if you only get one Stride + Strike out of it, plus another ally could Stride forward. At 1st, Strike Hard! is like getting a melee attack at range (and again, it's from a PC w/ better Strikes). Fortunate Blow (12th) seems like the only ability making Strikes tempting, ranged ones that is. A Commander should have better actions to take than moving (except to keep allies in their Banner aura) and isn't built that tough (even feebler if they had to invest in Str on top of Int). If one does use their shield to survive, that hurts both actions and damage (though if you have enough allies who can benefit from it, Shields Up! does recoup those actions and more for the party as a whole). Of course Shields Up! works fine for a non-striker too; may as well have a shield if Bulk's fine. If one wants to build a striking Commander they're much better off building a martial class PC w/ MCD Commander. This suits the classic fantasy imagery better, i.e. the class's iconic's backstory that reads more like a Barbarian w/ MCD Commander.
There don't seem to be any limits, and I'd recommended free-hand weapons in a thread a while back. You could also put the banner on a shield boss or shield spikes for similar results. It leads to odd imagery, a flowing banner hanging from one's hand essentially, but it works. Just remember you wouldn't count as holding the banner whenever your free-hand weapon doesn't count as a weapon. And since Commanders lack damage boosts to Strikes, they're more dependent on weapon size if interested in dealing damage. But I think melee Commander is both more dangerous and less productive than other builds so yeah, a free-hand weapon works fine. Make your impact through your minions, I mean peers and valued party members, that's what Commanders are best at.
Given how many people who dislike 4th do like PF2 or happily have switched over from PF1, you're in the minority, Cory. Maybe you make that comparison out of a similar sense of betrayal? I see you've GMed tons of PF1, so likely have such deep attachment that it's hard to shift over. Sorry about that, but I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by venting here other than spreading sorrow. I'd think there'd be Reddit threads about this where you might find similarly minded folk to gripe with. Maybe 3rd parties (with Paizo people even) still create 3.X/PF1 material (though PF2 should be easy to adapt, much easier than 4th would be). I found 4th a major hiccup which discarded much of my accumulated DnD savvy, something I do not experience with PF2. Having DMed/GMed 100+ games of 3.X/PF1 I find PF2 superior to PF1 and a natural extrapolation of the game's origins when factoring in modern understanding of game theory. Some of that overlaps with choices made by 4th ed developers, but as Paizo's noted (maybe in this thread even), the changes in PF2 that resemble ones in 4th were developed before 4th existed. And oh my gosh PF2's higher levels are so, so much easier to balance, adapt, and run than PF1's (and 4th's balance was lopsided throughout). So yeah, have to disagree with you; I'm still loving Paizo's choices. Good luck to you in finding a gaming home.
Well, yeah, "nobody's forced" is the solution and truth (and PFS GMs running older material need to be aware of this when a scenario lists "generic" ghoul, the situation might warrant using the legacy version like if a harpy's effects need to be sound based for the listed tactics.) But what I find interesting is how the zeitgeist will shift over the decades. Not that PF necessarily dominates that, but "stinky ghouls" and "windy harpies" will become the norm for newer PF players who'll become the grognards of 2050...in whatever awesome, tech-based way that becomes. I also think PCs would notice a difference between stinky area and Stench itself. One might need to toss in some red herrings re: Stench. Hopefully alchemy to turn off Stench would be cheap since it's not giving a power, it's removing one, and so low-level ghouls (et al) could reasonably access it. That is for y'all who see hunger-driven ghouls as being able to act civil around fresh food. Their images were primarily feral and they used to be Chaotic Evil. So even though ghoul cities date back to Gygax, the concept eludes me, comparable to a cannibalistic post-apocalyptic raider outpost except somehow able to transcend into even larger scope...with municipal services? Oh well, nobody's forced to play with such cities either.
Hmm, has anybody sniffed Mr. Jacobs recently?
So yeah, civilized ghouls (which IMO was an oxymoron) can't function with such a stench. Their cities must smell wretched, but funnily enough that also means any visitors should have the one-minute immunity to stench auras ongoing at the beginning of most combats (assuming they're strong enough to easily make the save DC of the mundane ghouls). Hmm, this consistent need to save vs. stench would make infiltration difficult too, as natural 1s would reveal most people who'd need to resort to infiltration, assuming being Sickened enough to be Slowed stood out. Hmm, some older material had ghoul troops working alongside or for snobbish types that I doubt would accept such odors in their presence. Not that they'd have smelled fine before, but we're talking now about smells that impair people.
I really hoped they would not do 3-4 because getting the Striking Rune at level 4 makes Martials a completely different beast. It's more awkward than that, it's only some martials, the ones with big die weapons, that get a huge leap. Swashbuckler & Rogue, for example, get two smaller ones: Striking at 4th plus a damage boost at 5th. So even a 4th-5th level adventure would have distinct differences (as well as Fireball for the casters & stat boots). So it kinda has to be 3rd-4th. The difference between 1st & 2nd can be large too, depending. Much harder to kill a 2nd level martial who just purchased heavy armor than their 1st level counterpart. And if anything, highlighting these power gaps emphasizes Paizo's (likely) reasoning for tightening the level bands.
"There are lots of ways to justify nearly anything happening in a story."
This is the heart of any answer re: Golarion infrastructure, more so given how Paizo regards narrative as more the driver of the setting than vice-versa. In the older policy re: submissions (which I'm unsure Paizo even accepts anymore, rather contracts out), Paizo gave PFS authors the freedom to introduce new concepts into Golarion lore...as long as the geographical impact was limited. So you could have a rural village with a unique deity with its own holiday, a lost valley with bizarre physiology/evolution, or on this topic, as backward or forward a sense of infrastructure as one needs for one's scenario in its distinct space. Broad-scale infrastructure like postal systems and road networks would still be left to setting devs (who in turn might upgrade/downgrade infrastructure as suits a major project like an AP). But if a scenario required a unique dam built by a genius in the remote wilderness, that might be a marvel of Golarion tech surpassing Absalom's best (though perhaps not Numberia's unless set nearby). I imagine if said scenario involved the collapse or destruction of said infrastructure, all the better to explain why such ideas don't impact Golarion in the future (until desired). And then there all the Vaults underground where you could introduce continent-level infrastructure and have some authorities like in Numeria who contain their knowledge to themselves. So Kineticist construction companies, dragon delivery, and...well, there's already steampunk and Wild West tech broadly available. Couple those with magical creatures and one can stretch pretty far, with little off the table (your group's table) if it suits y'all. It's a bit reminiscent of how superhero tech usually works, where earthshaking advancements shake only a manageable portion of the earth. Writing this brought to mind dogfighting dragons with Gatling guns on their backs. Dunno why, they'd probably be better wielding them. :-)
Because of the elven immunity to dnd ghoul's paralysis, I always thought it was a nod to LotR where even the dwarf Gimli has terror paralysing him from entering the subterranean way guarded by undead, whereas the elf Legolas feels no such fright. Maybe post-hoc, but originally that trait appeared in Chainmail, D&D's fantasy-war simulation predecessor. Elves were expensive, but were just as susceptible to ghoul paralysis which proved too big an Achilles heel for game balance so they made elves immune to ghoul paralysis. Since proto-D&D used Chainmail creatures on a smaller scale (I believe in a sewer even), the abilities carried over as part of the lore. (No citation available, but I believe it was from a printed interview.)
The ability says it's nourishing, so it does nourish no matter its duration, as long as you eat it before it's gone. And for water, you could just squeeze juices into your mouth. That should qualify even if one has to dedicate a certain percent of the produce to the water stat rather than the food stat. Obstacle overcome (for better or worse narratively). And as noted before, this is what the Kineticist does. At worst they might get fatigued from ceaseless effort, but if augmenting some of the other resource successes of the party this obstacle simply isn't one. (I've seen it happen with other scenarios when the party simply had emphasized that type of threat, but it does come at the cost of not addressing other obstacles as thoroughly.) Arguably Kineticists should've been Uncommon given how they can break so many scenarios (except they were already established in PF1). Even post-Kineticist scenarios have a hard time accounting for their endless resources so a GM should be alert to this possibility at session zero. Heck, in the infrastructure thread Kineticists pose a major X factor as to what's possible, being more impactful than labor & spell slots at least per Kineticist, so infrastructure questions depend on how many there are as much as most factors.
Lol, Rust Monsters.Who know what society might have achieved without them. I think of them as underground dwellers, but yeah, if there was a long line of food/railway, it'd only take one (or gasp, a breeding couple) to derail the next car. Heck, sentient scavengers of many types might not even recognize a railway's purpose (much like happened in rural Japan w/ telegraphs and Eastern Europe w/ internet wiring!).
With Walls of Stone I wonder how viable stone railways might be, not so much on a regional scale, but local in a city, mine system, or port. Again the Kineticists would do even better here. They're so game-changing.
Overall it feels like most of these data are first impressions from a veteran player more than a guide. Thank you for adding quotes. :-) Caveats should be the norm for most Tactics. This is the most party-dependent class there is (as you've noted). For Strike Hard, if you think it loses its oomph, then it could have different ratings by PC level because yeah, Demoralizing Charge dominates when it arrives. So I could see several ratings for each Tactic, one for PFS w/ zero party knowledge, one for when there's party synergy (both which you have, so yay!), and others if level/newly competing Tactics arise later. I'd likely add more, like noting which ones work well w/ Plant Banner's risks plus which have synergy with a melee vs. ranged vs. non-combatant Commander (which I prefer). Also I'd reckon a Commander's Strikes about as valuable as the second/MAP attack of a dedicated martial given the class's opportunity costs (and the movement needed for melee is hardly worth the Tactics lost). If you agree, point that out to prospective players. A Commander focused on Strikes works better as an MCD Commander IMO. The stats section feels shallow, maybe separate for different builds? Cover Int as primary vs. secondary cost/benefit. Weigh the stats vs. each other more, i.e. Wis has "definitely invest in this", but is ranked Green, decent. What's a reader to make of that, much less a new player? Plant Banner is a game-changer, even if risky. I go into detail in a post many moons ago (and I seldom start a thread so it's easy to find if interested), but the primary tidbit is it's worth it even if you just Plant & pick up. The temp h.p. remain, even if they don't refresh. I love the Commander's AC, but 5 stars? Must one really have a very good reason not to choose this? It's a major build commitment, takes a valuable action, and IMO requires some party support to cover a Commander's gaps, i.e. healing it. With so many blues at 2nd level, there should be some guidance on how to pick from among them. You're just reiterating what they do & clapping.
Reactive Strike should only be blue for melee Commanders (which is obvious to us, but you're even saying Wizards should take it which is silly and might mislead a new player reading this). Fortunate Blow IS game-changing, I agree, which should be mentioned in its prereqs (which alone are mediocre IMO) and in choosing one's overall build-type. I might put Confusing Commands in the same category, bad prereq, but game-changing feat; if playing into high levels it'd be a major reason I wouldn't ignore Int...if the prereq didn't interfere. ---
I'd think a new player needs to review this with a purpose in mind. If they just went with the "best-rated" feats it'd be a mess. So an opening about the different builds would help.
Pure speculation...
So instead of the scenario's trying to fit in a range of PCs (and perhaps losing some precision for some of that range/one of those tracks), it's the PCs that are adjusted to fit in the scenarios. Which yes, is done already with mismatched parties so it's not a foreign concept. I'm reminded of the earliest PFS1 scenarios with extreme level ranges, and it made all the difference in the world whether Lord so&so was at fireball levels or not, making for quite different table experiences and NPC tactics. "Don't play adventure X at high level" was an occasional warning. With level differences mattering more in PF2, maybe this further tightening is necessary for finer tuning and more effective writing & balance. As mentioned, just spitballing.
A Master in Survival w/ Forager can feed 16 people per Subsist. In a forest or jungle with an easy DC, one could take the -5 to do it in 8 hours (and maybe hire extra help too, noting that these people would likely be needed as handlers & bodyguards anyway). And as Mathmuse mentioned, even paying for its food would pay for itself if crossing mountains as well as other treacherous terrain. It'll bypass earthbound monsters and deter most airborne ones who'd likely prefer to attack that team of oxen over there stuck in the swamp. :-) The harder part IMO is getting a Roc, though in other campaign worlds they have been for sale, at least as eggs or fledglings. Don't know their lifespan. Probably quite long based on size (and longer w/ magical healing and curing). Looked up Create Food and boy does that change the math! It implies a Gargantuan creature eats 1000x as much food, so one might settle for a Huge creature at 100x as much. But standard feed x1000 is only 10 g.p./week which is affordable (and that's the cost of 20 pigs or 5 horses/week so it's not a loophole IMO). A Druid might offer these services, keeping that many more people from disturbing nature. --
Did I miss the point that flying would be expensive and involve smaller items when I explicitly wrote that flying would be expensive and involve only key items plus mentioned their major difference would be in rougher terrain? Hmm. ---
Reminds me of a PFS1 scenario with beetles that could destroy any local merchant and challenge the strongest village factions. But the beetles were incidental, just normal fauna (though an excuse for PCs to rescue an info source, with a good chance of failure). Saving villages is a common enough PF/RPG theme, which would suggest a reason trade routes struggle; they're even harder to defend than a village (plus intrude in areas other creatures might call their own). ---
That seems a setup for a scenario, PCs meeting/intercepting aquatic couriers.
I don’t think dragons would willingly perform mundane shipping tasks. Too proud. Appeal to greed for stereotypical ones. But there are lots of dragon options other than the hoard-sitting proud ones. Just a few dragons would make an impact so look for exceptions. Maybe appeal to their unique talents, how non-mundane their labor (truthfully) is. Maybe they're the ones who own the business, or it's for allies/higher goals, or maybe they're dumb/animalistic/controlled. Community-minded ones might see it as a way to contribute that's rather easy for them, yet bestows great benefit. Golarion has shied away from domesticated dragons, but it's feasible; and because you can reason with many it's maybe more so than the Rocs, mammoths, and dinosaurs which are available. And dragons are just a handy example among the many large flying creatures out there. Not saying they'd be a given in any city, rather where they did show up they'd function much like helicopters.
On Earth. -Golarion seas have aggressive megafauna and sapient inhabitants, so I'd move them a notch down. They're terrifying enough on Earth where we only imagined nearly all such creatures.
Kineticists skip so much engineering development, their population is a significant statistic re: infrastructure (see Korra, though I hadn't been thinking of that). And then there are genies, elementals, fey, and a list of other sapient creatures that can work magic all day, including Cantrip casters. Telekinetic Projectile light debris away. :-) Maybe magic schools lend out their students who can practice.
We don't want Golarion mapmakers to have mastered precision yet, mid-level adventurers need adventuresome tasks...some might even say paths to find.
I suspect the friction will go beyond the bad laws because it sounds like your party will be operating in enemy territory (and if inspired by an older version of Irrisen, definitely so). Champions of Justice don't do subterfuge & espionage well as that will often require breaking the good laws, standard ones for civilized societies like breaking and entering or theft. Unless it's just that the dungeons & enemies happen to be there rather than an adventure dealing with the government.
Tying it back to infrastructure, highest-level heroes (a squad of which pop up every year or so) would also bend infrastructure. Somebody's paying their wages when they Earn Income doing a Legendary task. But somebody has to protect against all those mid-teen level monsters preying on rural victims, neither of which have the treasure to be AP material. I find it odd how many monsters are described in a folksy way as if a village could stand up to them. Nope. So maybe it's the former AP PCs, perhaps downplaying their abiities? I'm reminded of Marvel Comics where the god Ares (stronger than any construction equipment ever) was working construction or Damage Control swept in repair super-fight damage. Golarion would also have adapted to uber-beings. A high-level caster devoted to developing infrastructure could put in their hour and a half of work (counting morning prep) and have accomplished more than dozens of workers could do all week. And Kineticists, even lower-level ones could do the work of a corporation or major utilities building. I imagine governments (et al) would dedicate a lot to harnessing them somehow. Bidding wars would ensue, and assassination or abduction of rivals too. A lot of gold would be at stake, more if you get extradimensional interests involved. Oh, my, now I'm imagining an extradimensional Wal-Mart which drives out local competition by undercutting them and dominating market share only to show their true unholy faces after there's no one else who can provide their goods and services. Or maybe drug suppliers or simply unique fads from other worlds. How well would Golarion markets & cultures compete with angelic creations? Hmm. I imagine there'd be aqueducts and dikes made of Walls of Stone. D&D used to have more terrain-altering magic, and one would think there'd be a lot of high-level spells developed for non-adventurers, an unusual amount geared toward libraries and education. :-)
Unless, like Planescape somewhat addressed, there were guilds and unions that opposed such methods (& centralization/consolidation too). They'd need their own high-level forces to exert any influence though.
The default is that creatures can perform Athletics maneuvers so the burden of proof is on you, Easl, to show where Eidelons can't. You say "my reading", but what exactly are you reading? Advanced Weaponry implies no such thing as no hands or no maneuvers (no matter how bad Disarm is as an option). And the example shapes of most if not all Eidelons include options with hands or comparable limbs.
Yes, of course a Mist Stalker can perform the Trip action. Yes, an Anger Phantom (an Eidelon) should be able to do all the maneuvers that any non-Eidelon Phantom can (barring being Incorporeal because that trait does state a rule barring that). And yes, an Anger Phantom can play piano w/ a Perform check, however badly. Your examples make no sense. It's even worse in light of the fact players choose how many hands their Eidelons have and whether or not their unarmed attacks involve those hands or not.
All of those creatures you listed do have hands mechanically with which they can do maneuvers. Any generic creature form, even one that lacked any attack actions or limbs, could perform all of the maneuvers. But not Eidelons? For Familiars, Paizo had to explicitly state their limitations, but not for Eidelons? Animal & Construct Companions, even snakes or exotic ones w/ no hands, can perform maneuvers. But not Eidelons which are superior?
Yes, there's a mediocre feat that uses perhaps overly inclusive language because there's no corresponding high-level feat yet for Disarm. This doesn't imply an unseen rule which would indicate Paizo devs lack of basic communication skills. It just makes Disarm a poor choice since you only get minimal benefit (but not zero benefit). I think the whole of PF2 on this topic, other than that single feat, points at the conclusion that Eidelons can perform maneuvers just fine. |
