Hm, I was hoping that I was crazy and was missing where this info is in the FAQ, since the thread I linked to is (erroneously?) marked as having been answered in it. In practice I'd agree with Kazaan's approach, but I don't want to head to PFS and end up nerfed, and so probably won't risk bringing a whip user until this gets FAQed.
Unfortunately there's been no ruling that I'm aware of. Several possible resolutions were discussed in another thread that I made as well, but ultimately it's something you'll have to work out with your DM.
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In this thread the first post is marked as having been answered in the FAQ, but I can't find any info on whips in the FAQ. Rather than continuing to necro that thread I figured a new one would be better. Given that enlarge and reduce person are first level spells, this is something that could come up fairly easily. Many points are raised in the other thread, but ultimately I didn't see a definitive answer, the closest thing being a JJ forum post. Is there a solid answer on this out these questions out there?
If I'm a medium character wielding a whip, and I cast enlarge person, what is my reach with the whip as a now large creature?
If I'm a small and wielding a whip, and I cast reduce person, what is my reach with the whip as a now tiny creature?
If as a DM I wanted to equip a cloud giant (huge creature) with a whip, what would its reach with the whip be?
Same as above, but with gargantuan, colossal, diminutive, and fine sized creatures?
So, did this ever get definitively answered? I saw the JJ post, but in my skimming I didn't catch anything that would reconcile what seems to be an error in the balor stat block based on JJ's answer.
So, what would be the most appropriate course of action? Should I mark my original post for the FAQ, or add another mark to the original post in this previous thread?
Hm, in thinking about it more, the presence of dire bat shape as a feat makes me think that bat shape, at least as far as intent, definitely should not grant an option for a large size. My hunch is that the intent is that they wanted you to become a bat, as the creature, but then they didn't want you getting blindsense, so they used beast shape 2 as a basis. And of course I doubt they intended for bat shape and a skinchanger's normal transformation abilities to be stackable. But speculation of course is pointless, there are just too many possibilities.
It seems likely at this point that there isn't a concrete answer to this question yet. What would be the most appropriate course of action, mark my original post for the FAQ, or add another FAQ request to one of the older threads?
I did see that threads on this had been made before, and marked for the FAQ. Did an answer ever make its way to the FAQ? Otherwise I can't find anything in other forum threads besides other people like me shooting in the dark at the many different possible interpretations.
This functions similar to a Druid's Wildshape ability.
You have the choice of Tiny or Large sized Bat. Once you make this choice, you must always turn into that sized Bat. If Bats happen to have Fly speed, Darkvision, LowLight vision, Scent, Grab, Pounce, or Trip, you gain those abilities. You gain all of the Bat's Natural Attacks. You use YOUR modifiers/attributes/etc.
Depending on what size you choose, you gain a bonus to Dexterity/Str/Natural Armor.
Keep in mind you're mimicking a Bat, not turning into the Bat that is in the bestiary - Only taking certain parts of it and otherwise obeying the Beast Shape II Spell.
Also, this wouldn't count as a Skinwalker's change ability, as this is taking on the form and not the actual Subrace of Werebat-kin. I'm pretty sure these would combine, as one is a Size bonus and the other is a Racial bonus; One is a Form whereas another is a Subrace.
This strikes me as a plausibly correct interpretation by RAW, though its ramifications are terrifying. Skinwalkers already made good barbarians before, but if this is just too good. In exchange for pumping 13 into charisma and their first level feat, they can combine this with their racial transformation to negate the beast shape dex penalty, and come out with flight, +4 strength, +4 natural armor, and one of the bloodmarked transformation abilities (primary bite attack or perception bonus being the obvious choices). At first level. Then again, ragebred skinwalker bloodragers can get 6 natural attacks at level 1. Man, it's a good thing there won't be many skinwalkers in PFS.
Bump? I want to take this feat, but I want to know how it works too. None of the differences are particularly significant, frankly even basing it off of beast shape 3 wouldn't be that big a deal in the scheme of things, blindsense 20 wouldn't be that scary of of a thing for a DM to contend with even at level 1. Though I definitely don't think beast shape 3 is what's used, as written now, of course. For what it's worth, I don't think you'd be an unusually sized bat based on the writing of the feat - hence the +10 to disguise checks to make everyone think you're a normal bat, which definitely would not be tiny sized. A tiny sized bat should probably get a negative disguise modifier to make people think it's not unusual, that'd be freaking scary!
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Bat shape:
Spoiler:
"Benefit: You can take the form of a bat whose appearance is static and cannot be changed each time you assume this form. You gain a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks to appear as a bat. Changing from werebat-kin to bat shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as beast shape II, and your ability scores change accordingly."
Beast Shape 2:
Spoiler:
"This spell functions as beast shape I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, grab, pounce, and trip.
Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a -2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a -2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus."
But bats are diminutive. Do you become a tiny bat? Do you become a diminutive bat, but use the tiny animal ability modifiers from beast shape 2? Does that feat contain a typo, and it should read beast shape 3? Something else? I lean towards you becoming diminutive and using tiny animal stats as making the most sense, due to bats being diminutive, and the 'otherwise functions as' wording granting you as much as is applicable from the list of climb, fly, and swim speeds, etc.
Edit: also, does using the feat count as using a skinwalker's change shape ability? If not, can you use the feat to turn into a bat, then use skinwalker's change shape ability to turn into some sort of super bat?
They can cast fly?
They cast overland flight every day?
They keep overland flight active during all 15 adventuring hours (24 minus 8 for sleep, 1 for spell prep)?
They keep overland flight active 24/7?
Rules/FAQ citations appreciated in addition to yes/no opinions, I didn't find anything conclusive in my initial hunt.
Apparently Paizo has revised city building rules with the release of Ultimate Campaign. Is there anyone out there with the skill to make an updated Excel sheet using the new rules?
I'm going to be a sorcerer starting at level 16. If anything I've got so far looks dubious by RAW please say so. Otherwise, I'm looking for additional things that could boost save DCs. Persistent spell is already in use (with magical lineage).
First, raising charisma:
18 base
2 racial (ifrit)
2 fire elemental bloodline (effectively)
6 enhancement
4 leveling (starting at 16)
3 venerable
2 succubus
5 inherent
42, modifier of 16
For save DCs:
13 base for a level 3 spell
16 ability mod
1 familiar activating wand of arcane concordance
4 spell focus and greater with spell perfection
2 arcane bloodline (crossblooded with elemental)
2 heighten (unable to go further due to spell perfection wording)
1 trait (outlander, lore seeker)
39 save DC
The spell I'm upping the DC for is pellet blast. This is because there's very few (or none?) things outright immune to piercing damage, and thus they'll be subject to the effects of dazing spell. I'd be willing to switch to a different spell that offered no SR and has a wide area if it could have elemental focus (and greater) applied to it, and reliably affect anything, whether by doing 1 point of damage or succumbing to something else to trigger dazing spell. Reflex save based spells are preferable, that seems to be the most common weak save. The spell must be 5th level or below, due to dazing and persistent causing spell perfection to chafe at the level 9 cap.
However, the metamagic master trait is being used for intensify spell, to ensure the spell does enough damage to break through DR. I don't like taking this feat, however. Is there another way to reliably make sure the spell will punch through DR, or otherwise always make victims subject to daze? I would love to drop intensify spell and replace it with something else, and also reassign metamagic master.
Geyser is a spell I'd consider replacing pellet blast with, for instance, but it does piddly damage, so I'm not sure how I'd make it so that it could affect creatures with even meager amounts of elemental resistance. Something like the havoc of the society trait would work, though I can't take it with magical lineage, as they're in the same trait category.
