Black Lotus's page

Yup, I agree this needs to be answered.

To clarify 3 is always stealthed. He does not stealth a head. He is with the party 100% of the time. everyone sees everyone BUT BCD do not see 3. Only a sees 3. 1 sees a 3 sees d, exc.

Yes, But a DM in society just ruled against that, saying that Opponents means some or all.

Is there anything or an FAQ (if not its needed)

Surprise

When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you're surprised.

Determining Awareness

Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Perception checks or other checks.

The Surprise Round

If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Unaware Combatants

Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

So It says Opponents, and some DMs would say that if 1234 vs abcd. If 3 was stealth, and only a noticed him, then no surprise round. Other would say There is a surprise round, But only for 3 vs bcd.
Is there any ruling on which way it goes?
Thanks,
Black Lotus

This is one character i cooked up. Any sugestions for Mecanics, or Roleplay ideas please post.
Thank you for your guys time, this has been a great help.

Need Nmae
Male human (Shoanti) alchemist (mindchemist) 8 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 26, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 19)
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +16
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +1 luck, +1 shield)
hp 67 (8d8+24)
Fort +10, Ref +11, Will +4; +6 bonus vs. poison
DR 5/lethal; Resist poison resistance
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged bomb +9/+9/+4 (4d6+7 Fire) or
force bomb +9/+9/+4 (4d4+7 Force) or
tanglefoot bomb +9/+9/+4 ()
Special Attacks bomb 16/day (4d6+6 fire, DC 20)
Alchemist (Mindchemist) Extracts Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +14)
3rd—channel vigor, heroism, monstrous physique I[UM]
2nd—alchemical allocation[APG], alchemical allocation[APG], alchemical allocation[APG], barkskin, focused scrutiny[ACG], lesser restoration
1st—ant haul[APG] (DC 17), crafter's fortune[APG] (DC 17), heightened awareness[ACG], jump, negate aroma[APG] (DC 17), targeted bomb admixture[UC]
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 23, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +6; CMB +4; CMD 18
Feats Deadly Aim, Extra Bombs[APG], Extra Discovery[APG], Extra Discovery[APG], Point-blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Throw Anything
Traits - custom trait -, child of the temple
Skills Craft (alchemy) +22 (+30 to create alchemical items), Disable Device +14, Fly +6, Knowledge (arcana) +25, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +15, Knowledge (engineering) +15, Knowledge (geography) +15, Knowledge (history) +16, Knowledge (local) +26, Knowledge (nature) +25, Knowledge (nobility) +16, Knowledge (planes) +15, Knowledge (religion) +26, Perception +16, Sleight of Hand +12 (+16 to hide objects on your body (doesn't stack with heavy clothing but does with bonuses for attempting to hide small objects)), Spellcraft +17, Survival +11
Languages Common, Cyclops, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Polyglot, Shoanti, Tien
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +8), cognatogen, discoveries (enhance potion, explosive bomb, fast bombs, force bomb, precise bombs [6 squares], tanglefoot bomb), perfect recall, swift alchemy
Combat Gear cognatogen, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, poisoner's gloves, potion of dimension door, potion of endure elements, potion of protection from cold, potion of protection from evil (4), potion of protection from evil, potion of protection from fire, potion of shield of faith +2 (4), potion of shield of faith +2, potion of stoneskin, sipping jacket, acid (9), alchemical cement (9), antiplague (3), antitoxin (3), buoyant balloon (6), burst jar (3), holy water (9), smelling salts; Other Gear chain shirt, mithral buckler, cloak of resistance +2, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +2, air crystals (worth 16 gp, 1 lb), air crystals (worth 16 gp, 1 lb), alchemy crafting kit, bandolier, bandolier, bedroll, flint and steel, ink, black, inkpen, masterwork thieves' tools, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, mess kit, pocketed scarf, poison pill ring, pot, soap, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, wrist sheath, spring loaded, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 3 gp, 1 sp, 9 cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alchemy +8 (Su) +8 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Antitoxin This substance counteracts a specific toxin. If you drink a vial of antitoxin, you gain a +5 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison for 1 hour.

Alchemical Power Component
Like antiplague, this substance can augment certain healing spells.
Neutralize Poison (M): Add +2 on your caster level check to neutralize poison on a target creature. Antitoxin has no effect when you cast the spell on an object.
Bomb 4d6+6 (16/day, DC 20) (Su) Thrown Splash Weapon deals 4d6+6 fire damage.
Cognatogen (DC 20) (Su) At 1st level, a mindchemist learns how to create a cognatogen, as per the cognatogen discovery.

This ability replaces the mutagen class ability (a mindchemist cannot create mutagens unless he selects mutagen* as a discovery).
Damage Reduction (5/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Enhance Potion (6/day) A number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier, the alchemist can cause any potion he drinks to function at a caster level equal to his class level.
Explosive Bomb (Su) The alchemist’s bombs now have a splash radius of 10 feet rather than 5 feet. Creatures that take a direct hit from an explosive bomb catch fire, taking 1d6 points of fire damage each round until the fire is extinguished. Extinguishing the flames i
Fast Bombs (Su) An alchemist with this discovery can quickly create enough bombs to throw more than one in a single round. The alchemist can prepare and throw additional bombs as a full-round action if his base attack bonus is high enough to grant him additional att
Force Bomb (Su) When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it inflict force damage. Force bombs deal 1d4 points of force damage, plus 1d4 points of force damage for every odd-numbered level, instead of 1d6. Creatures that take a direct hit from a force
Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day) Activate to negate a critical hit or sneak attack as an immediate action.
Perfect Recall At 2nd level, a mindchemist has honed his memory. When making a Knowledge check, he may add his Intelligence bonus on the check a second time. Thus, a mindchemist with 5 ranks in Knowledge (history) and a +2 Intelligence bonus has a total skill bonus
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Poison Resistance +2 (Ex) +6 to save vs. Poison.
Poisoner's gloves (2/day) Each glove can be filled with liquid, and deliver with melee touch or natural att.
Precise Bombs (6 squares) (Su) Whenever the alchemist throws a bomb, he can select a number of squares equal to his Intelligence modifier that are not affected by the splash damage from his bombs.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Sipping jacket (1/day) Pour potion into linining, then use it up to 24 hrs later as a swift action.
Swift Alchemy (Ex) You can construct alchemical items in half the normal time.
Tanglefoot Bomb (2d4 rds) A creature that takes a direct hit from a tanglefoot bomb must save against the bomb's DC or be entangled and glued to the floor as if it had failed its save against a tanglefoot bag (see page 160 of the Core Rulebook). Creatures in the splash
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.

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Zen Archer is banned.
kinda wanna stay away from Monk archer of any type, as DM had a bad experience. I am prob going to go High DPS with Archer(An arcane archer is an option) if anyone wants to suggest any builds.

BlackLotus

I think you guys are right, that most of the bases are covered. Barb I think would be kinda boring, I would play it if they party needed DPS, but it doesn't seem like it dose from my talks with people.

A Ranged type character seems like a good option...

I have played an Investigator before in emerald spire, and it was fun with all the self-buffs. I differently was not min-maxed, but I was 'buff maxed' lol. So the idea of a 'mad bomber' seems interesting. I thought the alca fell off at higher levels?

A Pure archer, or even an elven arcane archer could be a fun option, as could as fireball wizard.

Black Lotus

I am going to start playing in the next few weeks (want to get prepared) A sword and shackles game, jumping in on Book 4.

Here is the info I got:
Party has a flagbearer, banner of kings, Bard, with some control spells. A 'healer', two druids: One that 'channels' to control water stuff, and is a 'water druid'. The other it pet centered, with an awesome pet. We also have a tankish swashbuckler who likes to parely (haven't looked at class c/p from skype convo.)

The DM Hates summoning, and has banned the zen archer allowed (my friend made one for society broke the game got banned in the home game), no summoner (hates summoning) and no magus (same friend broke the game with lvl 5 30ish ac got banned in home game)

I am really not sure what to make... If u got any advise or builds or what have you then let me know.
If not thats ok to... ;-)

Additional Info:
1 trait must be from Skull and shackles.
DM must approve chatacter after made. (hence hwy i want to prep now.)
Healer just heals. Druids summon lots of stuff even tho it bog down combat, and dm hates it. Bard buffs and dose control spells. Swashbuckler attempts to tank.

Thanks.

So if i read it and understood it, in PFS my compain comes with max tricks already?

"Hello, fellow saurian shaman. I am Xorb, a 12th-level Seeker. I would be happy to offer some insight, for the path before you is filled with trials! Let me take a few moments to reflect and collect my thoughts."
Waiting for your thoughts.

What are peoples favorite spells?

Bump

Thanks for some insights
Anyone else have any sugestions for A control druid who loves summoning?

Deinonychus seems like an intersting option,
And would be like having a perment Summons out, so i like it.

Again thanks for help in making me a summon/control Druid.

I want a CASTER (not fighter) of Saurian Shaman for society.
Need help ;-)
never done society before.
I OWN the UC, and Bestiary II.
Am willing to buy more PDFs.

Thanks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fig hter-archetypes/two-handed-fighter

When it says u add double your strength bonus, dose that mean in addition to the 1.5 str bonus u normally add?

For intelligence, I'll share a bit of my own experience. Since I am not shy about it IRL, for the purposes of this thread I will admit that, among other things, I have a high functioning form of Autism better known as “Asperger’s.” You may or may not have heard of it, but for the sake of the thread I won’t go into specifics. Lets just say that the condition gives people like myself a mind that works differently from the “typical” person that often translates to difficulties in social situations, and mechanically would be represented by a slight charisma hit, among other mechanics. Now, some people who have what I have, myself included, can actually navigate social situations very well.

However, it’s not because we are just naturally good at talking to people. While we are all different, in the end, what works for some people who have what I have(myself included) is tackling social situations through analyzing them, studying them intently and creating a logic-based system or guide that allows one to successfully interact with others when followed. It can take different forms for different people who have what I have. For me, since I tend to be better with words and facts then numbers, it’s a set of guidelines, rules and calculated, planned strategies that I memorize. However, for somebody else I have met with the same condition as me it was actually literal formulas and equations.(They where more math-oriented then myself.) While this is based on my experiences as a person with Asperger’s, it need not apply to simply that condition.

Instead, this, in my mind, is a perfect model for a character that has int to social skills and a low cha. They know they lack social graces. They know something about them turns people off. Yet, they are smart, so they tackle social interaction like an academic topic, or even a game of strategy. They research and study social interaction, find out what is effective, what is not, what people like and what turns them off. They apply their logic and knowledge to crafting a...

I have to agree with this completely, as someone that has Autism, thats how i process things. Everything is a "pattern" to me. Thats how a navigate social situations. I have trained my self to do it fast, and I make a lot of observations. Some times I am way off, some times I am spot on. Take the new information i gained, and modify my patern.

Dose anyone Have an Pre made adventure path they could recomend (has to have been on pdf at some point) for this character?
I can tone it done for the single person...
The game starts friday and Every time I have dmed i failed so think i better start with an adventure path.

I have not been really successful in DMIng before. And I am doing a 1 on 1 campaign with a friend.
I am not sure what to do with this, and I am feeling a little overwhelmed as the the clock clicks closer to the date where we are pose to start.

He sent me this... and I am like Horse Dung!!...

"Name: Quellon [Quell-uhn] Griner
Nickname: Quill
Male
Aasimar (Half-Human)
35 years old
Appearance:
Tall (6’ 2”)
Red-gold hair
Hazel eyes
Skin has a very slight bronze tone
Origin:
He does not remember his early childhood well, and so he relies on a tale his father told him. Before he was born, his father and mother left for an overseas trip while his brothers and sisters stayed with their aunt. Only his father returned, many months later, carrying Quellon in his arms - his mother having passed away due to complications with the birth. His father mentions little of what happened to his mother, and even less about why they travelled overseas - he refuses attempts to talk about it. Quellon was put to work at an early age, helping out with his father’s fishing business. He had a somewhat tough childhood, mistreated by his brothers and sisters (they doubt his relation to them), and raised by a father distracted by work.
Heritage:
Doesn’t know about his celestial heritage yet - hasn’t aged enough to tell he doesn’t age like humans do
His celestial heritage has bred in him a desire (which he can’t explain very well, not knowing his true heritage) to track down artifacts of power and keep them in his protection so that they cannot harm others. Being only half celestial, this desire is, for now, sated by finding the truly bizarre things of this world. He one day dreams of opening an oddity shop one day that carries various curios, baubles and other rarities to cater to a crowd of other oddity lovers/seekers. He even has a small, vacant shop space in town he’s eyeing. Until he gets enough money to buy it and enough of a collection to properly showcase, he has started a small oddity collection of his own. He likes bringing it out and showing it to those who share an interest in the bizarre. His favorite items are:
A small ornate bowl of gray blue metal that, when filled with water, will emit a faint, pleasing tone when a small stone is dropped inside. For some reason, this sound reminds him of his mother, of whom he has no other memory. Suspected celestial origins.
A pair of cured crow’s feet that will stand at attention and walk around, as if attached to an invisible crow, when the phrase “Who will tend the unburied dead?” is uttered (and cease at the phrase “Naught is left but bone and tendon”). Suspected necromantic origins.
A key head made of ancient wood that grows a new key blade and millings whenever a water is poured down the hole where the original key blade was. The key blade grown is unique every time. He has not found a keyhole yet that the grown key blade fits into. Suspected druidic origins.
Work History:
During his early and teenage years, he worked for his father’s shipping company. In his early 20s, he became the first mate on his father’s vessel. After all this experience, he has become an experienced sailor/fisherman.
His father sold the family business around when he was 27. He stayed on as a consultant of sorts, but after a mishap occurred during harvest and a serious misunderstanding resulted from it, he decided to quit. He left the family business and found work elsewhere in the city, but mostly down at the docks where he is most comfortable.
Skills:
Somewhat skilled at Disable Device (working with small fishing hooks and lures, setting spring-loaded cage traps for husk crab, repairing motors on his father’s river barge fishing vessel)
Skilled with rope (tying and untying knots, repairing nets)
Knife proficiency (from gutting fish - lots and lots of fish)
Perception is high - notices lots of small details (condition of fishing gear, currents in the sea, direction of the wind, signs of disease on fish, mood of crew, etc.)
Knows how to find good hiding spots for his stuff
Excellent swimmer
Stats:
He has used his natural charisma to negotiate slightly better pay rates for jobs, lower costs for his groceries bought at market, and placate the landlord looking for overdue rent. 14 (+2)
He has built his strength up by working for his father while young, and many manual labor jobs hence. His knowledge of the fishing industry has “netted” him many jobs on the docks. His strength is slightly above average. 11
A disease suffered while he was child has left him with a weak immune system and low constitution. His Constitution is much lower than average. 7
His dexterity is fairly high - tying fish hooks, repairing fish nets, and navigating a busy fishing boat during his early years was a boon to his natural reflexes and fine motor skills. His Dexterity and Disable Device skill are well above average. 16
His wisdom is exceptional. He knows a little bit about everything. He learned tasks by doing them himself, trial and error, and monitoring others; he learned about the ways of mankind by observing the behavior of his father and his clients as they interacted. 15 (+2)
His intelligence is slightly above average - he’s sharp, but he never liked sitting down to learn things through reading books or listening to teachers (he wasn’t in school much at all). 12.
Conflict Resolution:
Attempts to talk his way out of conflict that comes upon him unexpectedly. Tries to bluff in order to get the upper hand before attacking. Usually aware of his surroundings and the danger he might be in.
Stats:
Dex: 16
Wis: 15 (+2 racial) = 17
Cha: 14 (+2 racial) = 16
Str: 11
Int: 11
Con: 7
[Point buy: 10+7+5+1+1-4 = 20]
Residence:
He currently lives in a very small apartment he’s had for almost a year - the longest span of time he’s ever resided in one spot. He’s crafted a small hiding spot to keep his valuables (savings and curio collection). He uses the space mainly for sleeping and little else.
Family:
His mother passed away when he was very young. He has no specific memory of her.
His father, a retired fisherman, is aged and in a poor state of mental health. His father loves him and cares for him greatly, but does not always show it. Out of all his children, he is by far most proud of Quellon.
He is the youngest of four children. His sisters and brother, all much older than he, no longer speak much to him - his countenance and other features are so distinctly different from their own that they suspect he was somehow adopted. They are currently content to vie against one another, trying to sway their aging father’s decision about how much of the inheritance they’re entitled to from his small fishing business, sold when he retired some eight years ago. Quellon wants no part in this greedy affair, and so far has not received (nor asked for) one cent from his father’s estate.
Weaknesses/Quirks:
He feels a bit out of sorts further into the city, away from the docks. Can sometimes have trouble with directions. Likes to be near water.
He smells like the docks - a strong fishy, saltwater smell.
Has a hard time keeping his mouth shut when he sees some injustice or poor behavior displayed in public.
Intrigued by and drawn to magic items that have a novel effect (curiosities).
Fascinated by concept of fate. Likes to watch games of fate/chance, like dice and card games played by sailors at the docks.
Has little tolerance for the practice of necromancy, outside minor effects (like his crow's feet)"

It dose seem intersting, can you explain your feat and trick choice?
Like why eldritch haritiage? Why minor/major magic?
What are your strats/

Great stuff Like always TarkXT, you invest into this community so much, I thank you :)
On a side note
The class guide said "Core and apg" for your cleric guide
How updated is it really?
And Do you plan on doing more on that guide, or write other guides?
Maybe tackle the war priest or another class?

Any other ideas would be cool also :)

Ty BlackBloodtroll :)
I appreciate it.

blackbloodtroll could u post the build by lvl upto what lv you want?
Same with you Timebomb.
Those builds seem really intersting and outside of the box.

B UMP

Its a one on one thieves guild campaign.
All races (20 points or below) and all classes allowed. (but i expect if your a kobold or something you well be made fun of or make social stuff more akword. (which would be fine, i like a challenge in role playing.)
Well need to disable traps (somehow.) And have some social skills (Semi political and could be useful for scouting.
Need some ideas.
20 point buy system. Min maxed is OK. Back story is important. (dm wants a good back story)
I believe we are starting at lvl 3. not sure.

I would really like to be able to see this guy pick up Angels and demons exc for the improved fam feat.
Even the elusive Archon, Lantern.
I think it would be really rp ish for a good Shamen to have an Archon, Lantern familiar.

I think this classes really needs to be full base attack bonus with d10 health.

Sounds like you have a good idea what your character wants todo.
I have asked for roleplay help in here before to and got nothing. seems like no one wnats to help people flesh out there characters.
What common phrases or acent are you going to use?
Any interesting quirks?

I agree with reach clerics.

Bump.
Any help would be much appreciated.

I need expand on this I think. I would like to get some phrases and a mind set for him... IF anyone has any suggestions for him that would be great.

The Stag God

I Know i am stealing a minor character from a book, but please don't mention the book name as I don't want any spoilers for people who have not read it.

My Idea: A almost middle age man(Don't want penalties) who Goes from village to village, trading town to trading town, farm house to farm house. Traveling around in almost a circle visiting the common folk, healing them of there wounds, listening to there woes, helping train there animals.
He started out young, and been traveling the trade routes around the area of this region for 25 years now, visiting each town twice a year (the route takes about 6 months.
He goes hunting and takes cares of his own needs as he does it. He trades the firs he gets and other things people give him for his troubles for the equipment/stuff he needs. He never asks for money but freely gives his spells and skills and strong arm to help where needed.
He takes his trade cart with him to do trades at a deep discount. Where one area might be abundant in furs, he would take them to a place that isn't and trade them for something there, and repeat. He lets people "confess there sins" if they feel they need to, he does the basic rituals that all clerics of the stag know... Is mostly laid back and helps any who need it. If he runs into travelers he well help them along the road tell he gets to his next farm/town/village but then move on.
He is good with the Bow and long spear. He walks barefoot to show his connection to the poor. Most of the stuff his has were gifts from people.
His personalty is:
Slow to speak, quick to listen. He cares what other people have to say.
He knows he is not that bright compared to others so he is listen to other ideas first before deciding what to do.
He loves animals and nature, and loves serving his community.

If anyone has any other ideas to add to this, that would be good.
If anyone has any common phrases, or personality quarks to flesh this guy out that be great also.
Thank you for your time,
Black Lotus

Edit:
"Parables of Erastil
This book acts as a guide and almanac for the followers of Erastil; it includes information on strengthening one's family, farming, and wilderness skills.[3]"
There is no information on this, if anyone has any parables that be good for roleplay i think

thanks... :)

Ask if u can retrain to test out the warpreist thats coming out this tuesday for play testing... Most dms i think would like to see the new classes... :)

I would recommend reading guide to the guides, and looking up the cleric guides, tarics guide is fantastic, as it the reach guide to clerics.
After reading those guides, what interest you?

Can u finish a build Cgaubsawsam that maybe deals with the issues of your build?
Thanks
Black

I notice people who call dumping int cheesy usely dont like role play. he asked for optimal, and if he likes role playing someone slightly below "average' Int then o be it, not that big of a deal. (70% of humans belive there above average in int. hahaha)

1 feat: Leadership with lvls in fighter/barb/rouge exc after it.

I would go pure fighter for what u wnat todo. I know u wnat to take craft wondrous items, but really tog et a caster lvl and be able to use it, you only need half a feat (trait to get spell like abbilite) To get it.
pure fighter i think would be better in this case bro :)

long quote:

Black Lotus wrote:

Rogue: Add +1 to the number of times per day the rogue can cast a cantrip or 1st-level spell gained from the minor magic or major magic talent. The number of times this bonus is selected for the major magic talent cannot exceed the number of times it is selected for the minor magic talent. The rogue must possess the associated rogue talent to select these options.

Thats a reason to play a elf...nice ;)

With the chill touch spell, Do u do all attacks agaisnt that target in one standard action, or do u have to spread it out over mutiple turns?

If its all one standard action seems like you would run out of Omph.

You get a number of touch attacks equal to your caster level (your rogue level). They last until you use them up and you can use as many a round as you're capable so you could hypothetically add in two weapon fighting feats and poke twice as fast.

The target doesn't matter.

At 12th level it gives you 12 touch attacks. You use 3 to kill one guy one round, then 3 more to kill his friend the next round, then you have 6 left and the spell doesn't care who/how/when you use them.

The Sneak Attack damage is all considered the same damage as the spell and bypasses Damage Reduction accordingly.

So the downside is that you don't get any bonus damage (strength, power attack, etc), the upside is that you enjoy 80-100% hit rate.

I think you could make normal attacks (unarmed strikes or natural attacks) and get strength/power attack/etc, but to do that you're dealing with normal AC instead of touch AC like some sort of plebian.