Merciful Healer Archetype needing FAQ?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

67 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 8 people marked this as a favorite.

Am i crazy or is there a massive catch 22 in the Merciful Healer Archetype?

Ultimate Combat PG. 41
Last line under: Merciful Healing (Su):
"Feats and Abilities that affect a Paladin's Mercy Also may affect this ability."

I assume they mean feats like
Extra Mercy
Greater Mercy
Ultimate Mercy

but how can a Merciful healer qualify to even take these feats without Lay on Hands?

So in order to take advantage of this part of the Archetype, you have to dip 2 levels of paladin?

Or was it just forgotten that Merciful healers get access to these feats? I have seen nothing in the FAQ...

Was this an oversight? Is it supposed to be a Paladin Archetype? Any insight would be great, because it appears to be very broken as written...


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Dags wrote:

Am i crazy or is there a massive catch 22 in the Merciful Healer Archetype?

Ultimate Combat PG. 41
Last line under: Merciful Healing (Su):
"Feats and Abilities that affect a Paladin's Mercy Also may affect this ability."

I assume they mean feats like
Extra Mercy
Greater Mercy
Ultimate Mercy

but how can a Merciful healer qualify to even take these feats without Lay on Hands?

So in order to take advantage of this part of the Archetype, you have to dip 2 levels of paladin?

Or was it just forgotten that Merciful healers get access to these feats? I have seen nothing in the FAQ...

Was this an oversight? Is it supposed to be a Paladin Archetype? Any insight would be great, because it appears to be very broken as written...

Likely they meant that channel energy would replace the lay on hands prerequisite, but I agree that it could have been worded better.

Dark Archive

Dark Midian wrote:
Likely they meant that channel energy would replace the lay on hands prerequisite, but I agree that it could have been worded better.

While i agree with you on this, that is as it appears. That is not how about 80% of GM's willing to run it without a FAQ. So i am hoping they will clear this confusion up 1 way or the other...

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

This is indeed troubling. You're giving up stuff for this Archetype, but the archetype doesn't seem to be able to function RAW.

*marks this FAQ*


Definitely agree that this needs an FAQ. Have had people turn away from playing this class for the reason that they may or may not be allowed to use like half their feats.

Dark Archive

Hopefully they will FAQ it soon giving how long this this book has been out. I tried my best to find a answer and table variation is the only answer I could find.
I wonder how many people have actually avoided the archetype due to the uncertain description.

Table variation is great for home games, but not for PFS.


This require more precise wording!

Dark Archive

Definitely seems like they missed out something about how the Healer qualifies for said feats since it's clear they're meant to be able to use them and requiring a two level dip is 99% not what they intended.


I like ducks.

(tl;dr waiting for dev input on the issue)

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

Definitely needs some clarification. FAQ'd.

Scarab Sages

Taking into consideration that this may be used within PFS, intention vs written will always cause problems. Hopefully, a clarification can fix this.


Mmmh... You mean there's GM ruling against the feats being accessible ? O_o

The Archetype is not that great with the feats, without it's not even playable... :/

Dark Archive

Loengrin wrote:

Mmmh... You mean there's GM ruling against the feats being accessible ? O_o

The Archetype is not that great with the feats, without it's not even playable... :/

Some GM's do some don't. It appears there is a lot of confusion as to what appears to be intended, verses what is actually written. Hence the confusion here.

It appears as though the Archetype intended to use channel energy as lay on hands for the prereq for the Mercy feats.

However the feats themselves require a class ability exclusive to Paladins (Lay on Hands). Yet this is not a paladin Archetype....


Dags wrote:

Some GM's do some don't. It appears there is a lot of confusion as to what appears to be intended, verses what is actually written. Hence the confusion here.

It appears as though the Archetype intended to use channel energy as lay on hands for the prereq for the Mercy feats.

However the feats themselves require a class ability exclusive to Paladins (Lay on Hands). Yet this is not a paladin Archetype....

Oh I agree that the archetype is very badly written... I have faq'ed :p

Sovereign Court

My RAI take on this would be they are tagging on mercies to the channel energy and thus anything that would effect mercies capabilities on lay on hands would effect the channel energy of the Merciful Healer based on "Feats and effects that affect a paladin’s mercy also affect this ability." part of Merciful healing. Effectively: Lay Hands Req replaced by Channel Energy for the relevant feats.

My RAW take on it would be yes you would still require the prerequisites for the feats as it doesn't not state it bypasses or replaces them. Meaning you would need to dip into Paladin.

Either way it needs looking at so we have a firm ruling on what is does and what it requires.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Interestingly enough, I was discussing with a friend of mine about this issue last night.

Not only do the Merciful healer as written not qualify for those feats per lay on hands. Technically "Merciful Healing (SU)", doesn't count as a class feature for the "Mercy Class Feature" requirement as written. It would technically be a 3 level pally dip. In which case it would (RAW) be more comparable to a prestige class not an Archetype.

While i view this as nit picking and i don't believe most GM's would run the archetype that way, its arguable just as almost every other confusion regarding the "Merciful Healing (SU)" portion of the prestige class.

I really hope we can get this cleared up, its sad to hear people staying away from specific things due to confusion.

Grand Lodge

Mercy me, this is quite unmerciful indeed.

Scarab Sages

Yup, I agree this needs to be answered.

Scarab Sages

Yeah needs and answer.
Another that needs answer imo is the wild stalker keeping "Quarry" & "Improved Quarry"

while not having the feature required to use them


Hmm! Can't even use the freeboter FAQ as a guideline as the Wild Stalker doesn't have a comparable ability.

Dark Archive

I wonder how they rate importance of issues for FAQ... Curious if this will even have a chance to get FAQ'd. I cant imagine how busy they are...


Keep in mind you could take believers hands which lets you meet the requirement.

Though considering that came out years later it probably wasn't intended.

Shadow Lodge

Dags wrote:
I wonder how they rate importance of issues for FAQ... Curious if this will even have a chance to get FAQ'd. I cant imagine how busy they are...

Largely by number of FAQ flags. Not sure how many an issue needs, but I think this topic is getting there.

It helps if the question is one that's easy to answer - and this one's pretty simple and limited in scope, which increases the chances that it will be worth their time.


Weirdo wrote:
Dags wrote:
I wonder how they rate importance of issues for FAQ... Curious if this will even have a chance to get FAQ'd. I cant imagine how busy they are...

Largely by number of FAQ flags. Not sure how many an issue needs, but I think this topic is getting there.

It helps if the question is one that's easy to answer - and this one's pretty simple and limited in scope, which increases the chances that it will be worth their time.

Numbers matter the higher the hits the higher on the list. It is also affected by how easy the question might be to answer. In this case I don't see the answer being too hard so that helps it.

Dark Archive

would like some dev input


Dags wrote:

Am i crazy or is there a massive catch 22 in the Merciful Healer Archetype?

Ultimate Combat PG. 41
Last line under: Merciful Healing (Su):
"Feats and Abilities that affect a Paladin's Mercy Also may affect this ability."

I assume they mean feats like
Extra Mercy
Greater Mercy
Ultimate Mercy

but how can a Merciful healer qualify to even take these feats without Lay on Hands?

So in order to take advantage of this part of the Archetype, you have to dip 2 levels of paladin?

Or was it just forgotten that Merciful healers get access to these feats? I have seen nothing in the FAQ...

Was this an oversight? Is it supposed to be a Paladin Archetype? Any insight would be great, because it appears to be very broken as written...

Any movement on this?

Dark Archive

Doesn't appear so. They must be pretty busy with the release of star finder. hope we don't get forgot in the process.

Liberty's Edge

Bump lol


Meh, duck rule applies.

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