Benifey's page

Having a 7 charisma cleric in a party of martial characters is going to have a lot of negative effects beyond being bad at channeling.

This is another reason why I'm considering it. While I won't be a great face, I'll still be alright at it, much better than all the other guys traveling with me.

The extent to which this is true very much depends on how easily your group can obtain level 1 wands. Cure Light and/or Infernal Healing are extremely cheap and effective for out of combat healing.

This is very true, wands should be an easy replacement for what I want to do with channeling. But as it turns out, every campaign I've been in with this gm spend time being far away from anyone who could sell me a wand. While I think I'll have a few of them most of the time, I can definitely see situations where the only help I have is my deity and my pointy thing.

I would personally never by above a 16 in point buy, and even a 16 I'm hesitant about as a 15 is much cheaper and can easily get bumped up at level 4. I would get the 12 cha.

Anyway, when people say channeling is bad, they mean it tends to be bad for in combat use; it really doesn't do a whole lot of healing to an individual target (certainly not enough to out pace enemy damage most times), it burns action economy, it heals enemies unless you take a feat. Channel is super good for out of combat healing though, as it doesn't cut into your spells.

I suppose I should have mentioned that my STR is my boosted stat, so my 17 STR is only a 15 in point value. I certainly only plan on channeling out of combat to get the party back up to health for the next fight, a utility that is missing in many groups I play in. And for the low price of 2 points of strength, this utility seems to be well worth it.

To preface this, I've never played a cleric myself nor played with anyone else playing a cleric. Strange I know, but it's just never happened with any of the playgroups I've been in.

A friend of mine is starting up a fresh campaign and so far the party consists of a crossbow sharpshooter and a fighter of some type. I'm not sure what the other player is playing, but I've decided to take up the role of support as a cleric. After reading multiple guides, it seems that a reach cleric with a strong support focus will be the most effective character to bring to this party. I'm hesitant to go full support because I have a sinking suspicion that the party will need another body in the fray to put out damage, and a battle cleric just seems like more fun.

We will be using a 20 point-buy system and starting at level 3. I've got it figured out down to the last few points. Right now I'm split between starting with 19 STR and dumping all of my CHA or going with 17 STR and taking 12 CHA for more channels. The second option makes a lot of sense to me since I'm probably going to be the only character with support, but most of what I've read says that channeling is not very good unless you specialize in it with feats and such, which I do not plan to do.

My question is: would it be worth it to lose 2 points in STR to gain 5 points in CHA and get 3 more channels a day, or just take the 2 points in STR to deal more, consistent damage. Thanks for reading!

Well... headbands do mental stats, not physical. Houserules also change the magic item and WBL expectations a lot.

I meant a belt rather than a headband. Same price and effect.

So you don't think that before level 10 you might have a chance to buy a +2 wisdom headband thingy? Sounds like a rough campaign.

Say that I went with my previously mentioned strength build, but tweaked it so that I start with 12 wisdom. My stats would be 18 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 12 wis, 7 cha. So I would start with an extra +1 dex mod. However, I would only get another +1 mod between 1 and 12, compared to the total of +3 mods I would get if I went with the odd numbers at level 1. I would start off stronger from level 1-4, they would be even until 12, and from 12-16 the odd stat start would be beter. Overall, there's not a whole lot of difference in the two. However, I could get a +2 bonus from a headband to my dex, which gives the odd number start an edge. Maybe I'm missing something?

Benifey wrote:

As for my stats, I'm looking at str: 18, dex:13, Con:13, Int:10, Wis:13, Cha:7 for the strength build, and Str:12, Dex:18, Con:12, Int:10, Wis:14, Cha:7 for the dex build. Nothing original.

Why so many odd numbers? You'll probably be safe with a 12 in wisdom, you don't need to depend on DCs and an item with +2 wisdom will pop you up to 14 when you need it.

I plan on putting points into dex at 4, wis at 8 (close to when I'll need it for spells), and con at 12. While it's true that some magic item could just pop up, I'm not going to base my character off that assumption. I'll most likely have to buy my magic items, and if anything I want to spend my gold on a magic item that will benefit str or dex.

If you are using traits the armor expert is almost required for a ranger. It is the equivalent of having 6 extra skill points. For a ranger this is a full levels worth of skill points.

I actually skipped over this trait somehow. Thanks for pointing it out, makes the strength ranger that much sweeter.

As for my stats, I'm looking at str: 18, dex:13, Con:13, Int:10, Wis:13, Cha:7 for the strength build, and Str:12, Dex:18, Con:12, Int:10, Wis:14, Cha:7 for the dex build. Nothing original.

you really do not lose much utility (if at all) by going STR primary.

While it's true that you don't take any direct hits to utility, if I'm going to be skipping out on dex for str, I need something to boost my AC back up. Anything that's going to be competitive with a dex build's armor (in this case a breastplate) will hit me with a -3 or -4 to my skils.

I also think the idea of a "switch hitter" is a silly one--there's no reason to ever get into melee as an archer. And when bad guys get in your face, you're almost always better off just shooting them in the face and taking the AoO than wasting time pulling out a weapon--not that it's eay or likely for enemies to get into a properly played archer's face.

I think you miss the idea of a switch hitter. Firstly, you take quick draw so that you can drop your bow and draw your melee weapon as a free action. You never have to think twice about risking an AoO, because you're equally as proficient in melee combat as in ranged. You're not scared of an enemy in your face.

So I'm about to join in this campaign, and they currently have a cleric and an antipaladin. There's only going to be 3 PCs, so I'm trying to fill the stealthy and big damage roles, and I'm set on an archer. I could still be convinced otherwise, but so far it looks like archer is the way to go. However, I'm split between a Treantmonk-esque strength-based switch hitter, or a more generic straight up dexterity-based ranger. My conflict can basically be divided into "more damage less utility" with the str-based, or vice versa with the dex-based ranger.

The way I see it, I'm going to have a load more fun in combat with the strength ranger, but a lot more usefulness with the dex ranger (and the fun will follow out of combat.) If those were the only factors, I'd go right for the greater usefulness. However, with the strength ranger, if I need to do a bit of scouting before combat, I could just take my armor off and have +5 stealth (as opposted to dex's +7 constant.) But what if I get ambushed? I have a lot of reservations about both of these options. I guess I'm just making this thread to ask if anyone has any personal insight on either build, or wants to offer up a new one.

TL;DR: tell me what I want to do.

(PS: using a 15 point buy in the campaign)

It is not the bonus that is capped, it is the number of ranks which is capped by your Hit Dice (or level). Your Hit Dice is equal to your level plus any racial hit dice you may have (usually none). Your calculations are correct.

Thanks for the reply. We are all very aware of the "ranks can't exceed the number of hit die" rule, I guess that he was just mistaken. What was strange to me was that other members of the group agreed with the rule when I questioned him about it, so I thought that I had to be missing something.

So one of my friends recently started up his own campaign, and I thought I'd take a break from GMing and join in. So I made a wizard, and got some pretty good rolls (he used the 4d6 system.) I ended up with a 19, so I have a +4 mod. My total bonus for spellcraft checks came out to be +10 (+1 for rank,+4 for mod, +3 for class skill, +2 for selected school) but my GM said that the maximum bonus i could get was +6 since my hit die is a d6. I went with it, but when I got home and tried to find the rule, I couldn't find anything out about it. Nobody else was able to find the rule either. This isn't a huge deal because I'll be getting the full benefit at level 2, but I was wondering if anyone else knows and goes by this rule.