Working on a sniper character concept. Whilst Sniper is a Rogue Archtype, I'm aiming for a musket/rifle type, which would mean Exotic Weapon Proficiency. So I've got a few potential build path ideas for the character to function efficiently and wanna know how viable they'd be.
Build 1: Multiclass
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5/Rogue (Sniper) X
Kitsune favored class Rogue
Advantages
- Super fast musket reload
- Bonus damage on shots
- Kitsune Favored Class will get extra Rogue Talents to make up for the Gunslinger levels
Disadvantages
- No favored class bonus till 5
- Will not get Dead Shot
- Lower overall BAB
Build 2: Vigilante
Vigilante (Gunmaster) X
Advantages
- Pure class with Hidden Strike
- Easy firearm access
- Proficient with all firearms not just musket
Disadvantages
- Lower die size than Sneak
- Not a Gunslinger to qualify for Grit feats
- Deed-like abilities limited to x-times per day
- Slow reload and thus shooting
- Hidden Strike limited in range
Build 3: Pure Gunslinger
Gunslinger (Musket Master) X
Advantages
- Full BAB
- More bonus feats
- Ever-increasing damage
- Super fast reload
- Dead Shot + Signature Deed for powerful shots
Disadvantages
- No Sneak Attack
- Limited skill points
- Not a lot of high-level stuff
Build 4: Pure Rogue
Rogue (Sniper) X
Advantages
- High Sneak Attack pool
- More Rogue Talents
- Proficient with all firearms not just musket
- Gun Twirling + Pistol for easy Sneak
Disadvantages
- Slow reloading
- Very feat intensive
- No high level Deeds
Also, the toxic sniper archetype for slayer might interest you. Ever want to snipe with a poisoned musket ball?
Have you looked at the Gun Chemist Alchemist? Might not be the exact type of thing you're looking at, but bombs attached to your shots instead of sneak attack guarantees that extra damage. Also the inclusion of extracts is pretty good for needing buff/accuracy boosters.
Same idea of extracts with the Steel Hound Investigator, who @ 11th can start picking up gunslinger deeds, and gets studied combat/strike.
Slayer has a sniper archetype that allows you to ignore 30ft range on SA for one shot (they are aware after this shot though), with full BAB, sneak attack with studied target, and access to a selection of rouge talents/ranger combat styles. (Ninja'd .-.)
To offer opinion on your build options:
Build 1: This is okay for the "if I can't snipe" situations since dex to damage for both ranged and melee (unchained rouge? strait upgrade with the AT you have on it [daggers?cestus?]). Your save will be improved slightly, ***but your listing for disadvantages in held off until level 6 as you can't take a FCB regarding a class feature until you have the class feature.
Build 2: Don't; you're not getting hidden strike, you're not getting anything except being a gunslinger with a mask. Unless you have a specific combo with intimidate or whatever, this is a downgrade to what you're trying to make.
Build 3: If you can stick to gunslinger 1-20, good on you.
Build 4: Throw in unchained. This could work except you lack the DEX->DMG of Build 1. If not PFS, grab 3 levels Trench Fighter Fighter. This will slow down your talent progression less, grab you 2 extra feats, DEX->DMG for one firearm, and full armor/martial proficiencies.
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The first question to ask is: What do you mean by the term 'Sniper'?
If you are looking for the '1 shot, 1 kill, and no one ever saw me' type of character, the game doesn't really support this type of build (after all, this is supposed to be a 'team effort').
If you are looking to use the 'sniping' rules then firearms are really not for you: When black powder is used, there is typically a lot of noise, smoke, and flash. I don't think there are any official rules on this, but if your GM has any sort of 'realism' bent, using the sniping rules will be a practical impossibility.
If you are just looking for a ranged attack character, you should be fine.
When using a two handed early firearm, you need to take at least 3 levels in Gunslinger(Musket Master) to get reloading as a free action, which is basically essential if you want to do a decent amount of damage. The general recommendation is Gunslinger 5 for 'dex to dmg' and then take levels in another class: Continuing in Gunslinger isn't bad, but you can usually get better performance with another class. Offhand, you might want to consider the Slayer class...
I know its kind of boring, but a half-elf will let you gain the extra rogue talents and you still get gunslinger favored class bonus.
The Half-Elf FCB for Rogue is "Add a +½ bonus on Bluff checks to feint and Diplomacy checks to gather information." Kitsune get 1/6th of a rogue talent, so it's a bonus talent level 11 and 17 to make up for the 2 talents lost from the Gunslinger start.
Slayer Sniper is interesting. It has firearms on the list for Accuracy (Ex) which is big, however its version of deadly range limits to the first range increment on the weapon, and only the first attack. There's also the tradeoff of that Slayer gains fewer Sneak Attack dice in exchange for Studied Target, however getting Precise Shot from Ranger Style would be nice. Except that I should already have Precise by 6 as a ranged character (especially with Gunslinger bonus feats).
As for Unchained, I'm not 100% sure. There's no reason to not take it really, it's free Finesse and skill unlocks as compared to the base rogue. The Stealth unlocks play great into the character, and although at level 15 it would be really really late, Disable Device would be a good 2nd Edge choice. The Finesse will probably never get used though. Rogue-Talent wise aiming for Gloom Magic to go with Sniping choices. Nothing lost though, so will probably go with Unchained unless the GM bans it. The character does still work perfectly fine without it.
If you are looking to use the 'sniping' rules then firearms are really not for you: When black powder is used, there is typically a lot of noise, smoke, and flash. I don't think there are any official rules on this, but if your GM has any sort of 'realism' bent, using the sniping rules will be a practical impossibility.
It's more of a popping sound on old-time rifles and muskets.
However, the goal is Keen Kitsune for Int over Cha, and having it just high enough to qualify for Gloom Magic and get Darkness. I also contemplated Assassin as a prestige class, but it is more focused on poison than it is extra raw damage.
Sniping goal is shoot without being seen for high damage.
Half-elves can take the favored class bonus of elves and humans as well.I know its kind of boring, but a half-elf will let you gain the extra rogue talents and you still get gunslinger favored class bonus.The Half-Elf FCB for Rogue is "Add a +½ bonus on Bluff checks to feint and Diplomacy checks to gather information." Kitsune get 1/6th of a rogue talent, so it's a bonus talent level 11 and 17 to make up for the 2 talents lost from the Gunslinger start.
Huh. Neat. Had to find the FAQ on that one.
Whilst I don't find the Half-Elf boring, and Skill Focus: Stealth to start would be pretty cool, I'd need to invest deeper into Int to get Gloom Magic. Alternatively, go Drow-Blooded, Drow Heritage, and have Drow Magic (be a half-Drow) and follow up the Drow Nobility feat line like I did my Nightmare Fist Drow Vigilante character. Downside: that's 3 feat investment and you deal with the Deeper Darkness dilemma that Drow Nobles deal with (though Advanced Talent: See in Darkness would solve that, however as I learn with the other character if your team isn't ready for darkness you can be a bit of a detriment). However that route replaces Multitalented which was the reason for being the Half-Elf in the first place, and the free Skill Focus.
Price +2 bonus; Slot none; CL 8th; Weight —; Aura moderate illusion
DESCRIPTION
A silencing weapon makes no noise when drawn or when used to attack. In addition, after hitting a creature, the wielder can surround that creature with an aura that muffles all sounds coming from it until the beginning of the wielder’s next turn.
The target can still hear and speak (including uttering command words or casting spells with verbal components), but is much harder to hear. The DC of Perception checks to hear the sound of battle increases from –10 to 10, as long as the only combatants are the wielder of the silencing weapon and targets affected by the weapon’s muffling ability.
If the wielder confirms a critical hit with a silencing weapon, the target is also encased in a mobile aura of magical silence (Will DC 13 negates), which lasts a number of rounds equal to the critical multiplier of the weapon. The save DC increases by 2 for each critical multiplier of the weapon higher than ×2. This silence fills the target’s space but doesn’t extend beyond it.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost +2 bonus; Feats Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Spells silence
Otherwise invest in something that will allow you to cast silence (like a wand). This will deal with potential issues of firearm noise.
To deal with wand based stuff (and hopefully grabbing a wand of Greater Invisibility)
Charlatans and stage magicians use slight of hand to fake magic. A counterfeit mage goes a step further, parroting the motions and activation phrases used by arcane casters to activate wands or other magical accoutrements. While counterfeit mages rarely fool a real wizard, their command of the arcane is enough to convince most lay people.
Magical Expertise (Ex): At 1st level, a counterfeit mage adds 1/2 his level to Disable Device checks to disarm magical traps, Perception checks to find magical traps, and Use Magic Device checks to activate scrolls and wands. A counterfeit mage can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Signature Wand (Ex): At 4th level, a counterfeit mage can spend 1 hour practicing with a wand to designate it as his signature wand. He can draw that wand as a free action, and can activate it without having to succeed at a Use Magic Device check. He can change his signature wand once per day. This ability replaces the rogue talent gained at 4th level.
Wand Adept (Ex): At 6th level, a counterfeit mage can use his Dexterity modifier in place of his Charisma modifier when attempting Use Magic Device checks to activate wands.
This will eat one of your talents and trapfinding (you still have the magic traps part so this is mitigated slightly), but give you more use with wands (Int utility rouge will find a way for this usefulness, especially for UMD).
Most definitely go unchained.
Benefits:
-Weapon Finesse
^DEX->DMG for select finessables
-Debilitating Injury (Hampered will prevent them from coming at you, Bewildered will make them easier to hit, Disoriented will make their attacks more inaccurate)
-Minor Magic/Major Magic just got better
-Esoteric Linguistics is all the time
-Rouge's Edge: Stealth will improve the ability to 'snipe'
-***Vanilla talents that are not reworked can be transferred for use with UC with GM approval***
Downsides:
-If your GM's a jerk they won't allow you to transfer any other Vanilla talents to UC.
Scrap my Counterfeit Mage suggestion (just saw the Sniper and it replace Trapfinding), just pick up Pragmatic Activation trait for UMD Int use on it, grab wands, go nuts.
Also for any SA build without access to rouge Sniper AT, when available grab some Sniper's Goggles... yeah, they work wonders.
Instead of all those feats/talents, you can try to get Dark affinity. It doesn't give as many benefits, but its one feats instead of 4 talents or a bunch of drow feats/traits.
1/day though would limit the character to 1/day stealth sniping.
After I said it I actually ended up preferring the Half-Drow version of the character. And I remembered the main thing I wanted Assassin for which was Hide in Plain Sight. Mixed with Stealth skill unlocks and at-will Darkness and you have a sniper that basically refuses to be found.
Downside: Hide in Plain Sight is Assassin 8th, which would mean basically no Rogue Talents. However, Shadowdancer gets it at 1, the only caveat being needing Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Reflexes. (Ranger and Rogue Talent Hide in Plain both require picking terrain sadly.)
That would be 3 more feats though, meaning the character is pretty much feat starved needing Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot for sniping at all, Drow Nobility, Improved, and Greater for the at-will Deeper Darkness (granted the character cannot get See in Darkness until 15th minimum when they finally get Advanced Talents), and then Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes for the 1 level Shadowdancer dip, the third of which doesn't hold much benefit for the character as they'll seldomly be in a position to make an AoO.
Gah! I want all of the things for this character. =.=
That does bring up one thing though, would the character even need Hide in Plain Sight or See in Darkness? Deeper Darkness reduces light by 2 and snuffs all non-magical. By Rogue Sniper 9 (level 14 total) their Sneak range will exceed Deeper Darkness' radius. If they're shooting out of the darkness, they don't really need to see do they? And Hide in Plain is for within 10ft of a shadow. If they have a massive 60ft radius Hide in Plain works, but how often will they be observed at all in near-total darkvision-hampering darkness?
I wish there was an easy way to get At-Will Darkness. I wouldn't hesitate to go for it, however for whatever reason as a Drow, the second you get additional casts of Darkness they change it to Deeper Darkness, which causes problems.
Blind Spot is however yes, awesome. Didn't fit my Nightmare Fist build though, as they were the wrong type of Vigilante.
Vigilante upside: Hidden Strike as pointed out, however Rogue progression the Sneak Attack dice are better, and the Sniper SA range increases are one of the major building blocks of the build.
I don't think the character needs Hide in Plain if they can get Deeper Darkness (specifically) at-will.
Even Bright Light will be brought to Dim by Deeper Darkness, which qualifies as Concealment against creatures without Darkvision and thus qualifies for Stealth as ling as my sniper stays out of the 10ft radius. Normal light will be brought to full Darkness which maintains the same restrictions, and Dim becomes Supernatural where only my Sniper could see.
Since the dark is a sphere, the smoke from the shot doesn't matter and using Sniping will let the character shoot and stay hidden. The brief flash is nullified by Deeper and the sound is an imprecise sense. Since Sniping is a move action however, it does mean that eventually that imprecise sense would be able to pinpoint her unless she opts to move between shots on occassion. With the Musket Master reload speed though, that shouldn't be much of an issue. If something ever did pinpoint her, in the full darkness targets are blinded and thus flat footed so she can pull the emergency Drow Razor (sadly can't use the Drow Razor as a half-drow as don't get Weapon Familiarity, so it's really just a dagger of some fashion with the URogue Finesse. Suggest a cool dagger? Gunslingers are Martial proficient) and shank before a getaway and stealth.
Why not just ninja
No Archtypes or options to increase the range of Sneak Attack.
Oh my god! Hilariously stupid ideas!
What if I gave the character Catch Off Guard, and for her melee weapon she used the Stilleto Boots!? :D they're improvised and deal damage as a punching dagger, Catch-Off Guard would remove the improvised penalty, and let me sneak attack with them against unarmed opponents. Piss her off, you get the dominatrix boots.
And then for no reason, Shikigami Style with them to count them 3 sizes larger with the Disarm quality? You get close, she kicks your weapon away in the dark and boots you in the face for 3d6 + Sneak.
:O And they'd be light! So they could be her Finesse Training weapon and get Dex to damage!
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I adore the concept, but I think you'll need a DM ruling to have the boots truly count as a light weapon and be valid for Finesse Training. "Deals damage as" is not the same as "as if it were". Look at the heavy/light mace language in Empty Quiver Style for comparison.Oh my god! Hilariously stupid ideas!
What if I gave the character Catch Off Guard, and for her melee weapon she used the Stilleto Boots!? :D they're improvised and deal damage as a punching dagger, Catch-Off Guard would remove the improvised penalty, and let me sneak attack with them against unarmed opponents. Piss her off, you get the dominatrix boots.
And then for no reason, Shikigami Style with them to count them 3 sizes larger with the Disarm quality? You get close, she kicks your weapon away in the dark and boots you in the face for 3d6 + Sneak.
:O And they'd be light! So they could be her Finesse Training weapon and get Dex to damage!
I did 2 big Improvised Weapon builds not long ago. Improvised weapons by their oen right fall into the 3 categories of light, 1h, and 2h, which determines their base damage.
The Monk of the Empty Hand goes into more "deals damage as" for improvised as it was prior to solidified ruling. The boot is a light improvised, it just deals a specific type of damage unlike your average improvised weapon.
I ended up swapping the character back to vanilla rogue though. As nice as Finesse Training and free Rogue's Edge is, not having to ask to convert the Superior Sniper rogue talent was worth more.
Taking Signature Skill anyway, but at a lower level (7 as opposed to 10 because of the multiclassing), and simultaneously to Superior Sniper which gives Expert Sniper as a bonus feat. Having no Sniping penalty at all by level 7 was worth more than contingency melee damage and Debilitating.
Essentially, the trade off is having the character fully online 3 levels earlier, or gaining a few extra Signature Skills and again, damage on a weapon that will rarely if ever be used.
With 5 levrls of Gunslinger offsetting things, the character gets Rogue Talents and Feats on the same levels, so every odd level is a massive power boost.
7 Signature Stealth + Expert Sniper
9 Fast Stealth + Improved Drow Nobility
11 Rogue Crawl + Stand Up + Prone Shooter (FC Human bonus Talent)
13 Minor Magic: Mage Hand 3/day + Equipment Trick (Thieves Tools)
15 See in Darkness + Greater Drow Nobility
17 Weapon Focus (Muskets) + Skill Mastery (Stealth) + Anatomical Savant
19 Improved Critical + Accomplished Sneak Attacker