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In my answer it would be same regardless of class...but the thread was mainly about paladins and the cause effect etc.

So the leave the poor paladin alone is kinda not necessary...besides some of the fun in RP game is moral quandaries and choices..Pallies just have more at stake.

I give all my players tough choices and in world ramifications of those choices.


The Laws of Gods..and Men (or whatever race) are different.

while his god may endorse what he has done and no harm no fall..

The local lords..government may not...just having a class and levels does not a title make.

Think of it in our world as vigilante justice..may go over well..may not.
But could make for some interesting RP when the actual law enforcement types get wind of these happenings ( if they do that is)..could want to arrest the Paladin..or give him a star. LOL


Pretty Rude I Cannot Endorse

I personally assign PC value base on good old interaction..and not decide my actions with dice..LOL


I try to keep them in the sizing scheme of pathfinder...but in "Reality" very few were ever built to even the same specifications..but yes usually longer than wide. So make your own call. :)


i would say based on how the weapons look in reality..(and based upon your stats )
Ballista 5' wide X 10' long
light catapult 10' X 10'
heavy catapult 15' X 15'

and the crew would be gathered about it in their own squares.

or so how I have always drawn them on maps and such.


Otherwhere wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:

Which version of Rochefort? Dumas, the current tv show, one of the films?

Some of them are decidedly more rogue-ish than others. (He also has two good eyes in the novels.)

My personal favorite is Christopher Lee from the film made in 1973. This version is the best so far IMHO.

Master swordsman, able to take on the musketeers, which is why I thought he needed something other than a Swashbuckler.

@chbgraphicarts: LOL Yeah, Milday would be fun to build as well.

Looking for Feat suggestions as well as Stat distribution. DEX is pretty obvious, but I'm flexible as some of these classes can be a bit MAD.

Thr best of the films by far... I could see him as a swashbuckler/inquisitor as well, he was intimidating and worked for the cardinal.


Hmmm I don't thing brag is quite the right term...obsess over it..maybe fixate.
Personally my eyes kinda glaze over and I have a ringing in my ear after so much +1 this and +2 that talk..lol :)

and as to the ancient days of tournament games..TSR actually released modules just for that scene..but they were to be used with PREmade characters...now that would cause a player uproar these days. ;)


guacamole and sourcream ...

(now I made myself hungry)


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I played a CE barbarian , that viewed his fellows as his tribe/family..and had pretty violent mood swings..and a terrifying temper..but so long as I had wine, women and loot, I was a fairly easy fellow to get along with.

But I did burn down a small town that drugged and took my friends prisoner..(I was at a brothel when they came for the rest...saved by lust :) )
He was more Chaotic than evil..but I did some pretty creative executions for stuff we delt with along the way.


Yup Third Mind..the butthurt revenge character is very common in any PVP situation, equally so the rage quits..or mutual rage quits, all damaging to a harmonious gaming experience.

And unfortunately...due to situations and players like you described..( the over competitive on the border PVPer that is seeing who he can kill), I have found myself observing other new players closely for several game sessions before trusting the Actual player..and coming up with contingencies.
Only takes a few run-ins with these types before it colors your gaming habits forever ...lol


At will truestike?!..."check please!" :)


Conman the Bardbarian wrote:
I keep thinking it would be fun to do a King Maker version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms with two different groups under the impression at the first that there was only one group being run for it.

The current Campaign i am in started kinda that way (well once we got to the kingdom building portion...but the other parties kingdom just collapsed due to stupidity).

Now its just us..and those players get to play in one shots we generate, like lately I commissioned a party to bring back a pair of aurumvorax pups ( we call them dragon badgers)


I had a buddy who, when we played together always ran siblings...and when things would set slow..we would beat the hell out of each others characters..in a bar fight or field tussle, while others were rping or such (that we were not privy to) we would be happily rolling dice and duking it out..with descriptions of course. was alot of fun.


Did a Drow campaign with 2 parties that was PVP//Party vs party..and classic...was fun but so much paranoia..and when the violence happened it always escalated to the stratosphere.
but everyone knew what the premise was and got on board..and made personal alliances and such..but.

In any normal campaign ..I avoid PVP like the plague..never works out, always causes butthurt and revenge characters...or players quiting, unless you have a tightknit and PVP friendly bunch of players...its just a idea that is best left to computer games.

Myself I hate having to get combative with a fellow PC..never feels good, and can put everyone on edge and the GM uncomfortable, that being said, unfortunately due to the nature of Roll20 (which I love btw) you will encounter many players there that slip in under the GM's radar and go PVP at inopportune moments..or that just try to cause campaign sabotage.
In those situations it falls to the GM to deal with them and prevent damage to the game..and again because of the mindset, that usually means kicking them to the curb.

so..NO to PVP..unless that the entire focus of the game, and everyone knows.


B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
Ashtathlon wrote:


Red..gold dragons are immune to fire, and they have hoards full of coins...not strange clumps of coiled or pellet shaped metals..(hmm now thats a idea) and dragons that breath acid..I cannot even imagine what its digestive system must be like.
and as to wondrous items...they don't really have any major defenses per se against fire..acids and whatnot..unless specifically stated in the items description..boots, cloaks..belts etc would either be consumed or rendered otherwise ..unusable.
but so long as hoards have piles of nice easily used coinage...the waste leavings concept kinda stinks :)

The fact that we don't find piles of slag could suggest their digestive system doesn't reach those high temperatures.

As far as the acidic dragons go, most acids won't dissolve gold, I think Aqua Regia requires a combination of both Hydrochloric and Nitric Acid to dissolve gold. But even that wouldn't dissolve glass. It would also depend on residence time of the item in the stomach. (Personal question for science Ashtathlon, how regular are you?). Though common Hydrochloric Acid (stomach acid) could cause significant demineralization of bones.

Anyway, the fact that Dragons of all colors/metals/types have a singular source, would suggest that they have similar digestive systems.

Or they dont eat and crap out the treasure.


B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
Ashtathlon wrote:

Actually there would be little to nothing in most dragons leavings..as it has been mentioned many times that their stomachs are like hyper efficient furnaces capable of digesting almost anything...

Not much chance for coins..and magic items to survive that trip.

Actually metals and minerals would be the most likely things to survive that trip. Probably bones too. These are the things that survive high efficiency furnaces (for example crematoriums). At high enough temperatures you could melt it, but that would be like having your innards engulfed in Lava (20d6 fire damage per round), since most dragons are not immune to fire damage, it doesn't seem likely they would be able to reach these temperatures.

Magical/Wondrous Items are different. I wouldn't expect scrolls to survive, but wands possibly would (most wands are wood, but some are bone, metal, or even crystal). I would consider wondrous items inside a dragon's stomach to be attended by the dragon, so I'm not sure if they could easily be damaged.

Red..gold dragons are immune to fire, and they have hoards full of coins...not strange clumps of coiled or pellet shaped metals..(hmm now thats a idea) and dragons that breath acid..I cannot even imagine what its digestive system must be like.

and as to wonderous items...they dont really have any major defenses per se against fire..acids and whatnot..unless sepcificaly staed in the items description..boots, cloaks..belts etc would either be consumed or rendered otherwise ..unusable.
but so long as hoards have piles of nice easily used coinage...the waste leavings concept kinda stinks :)

But just to add this...back in the days of council of wyrms...a dragon's hoard was necessary for it to advance through it age stages..and would have to consume some of it before hibernating and going through a growth spurt ( that may take days..months or years)..and we had to be careful with our breath weapons ..not to destroy items of value..I remember picking through many dead creatures for the shinies...lol
Not a great idea..but it worked for a game mechanic...and also several breeds of dragon actually ate gems and pearls..usually the metallics..so I guess their digestive system can break down gems etc...
Unless the just dig through their droppings for the gems again...talk about recycling..ewww :)


thats what templates are for.....


Scavion wrote:
Ashtathlon wrote:

Actually there would be little to nothing in most dragons leavings..as it has been mentioned many times that their stomachs are like hyper efficient furnaces capable of digesting almost anything...

Not much chance for coins..and magic items to survive that trip.
Not at all a biased opinion of one who doesn't want to be compared to owls.

Well when owls breath fire..grow extra limbs..live thousands of years develop language and magic, and have a blast furnace for a digestive system...I may consider the comparison a bit more.. :)


Actually there would be little to nothing in most dragons leavings..as it has been mentioned many times that their stomachs are like hyper efficient furnaces capable of digesting almost anything...
Not much chance for coins..and magic items to survive that trip.


Ok...just to satisfy some of the little folks curiosity as to why we "hoard" as you so clumsily put it.

Dragons are POWER..we fly, breath death...kill as we wish and are armored from head to tip of tail.

This visual expression to ourselves of this power is our amassed riches and baubles taken from slain and dominated foes..when we cast our gaze over the assembled wealth..we remember every exploit that caused that bit of shine to be in our clutches.
And maybe for my more soft-hearted brethren they recall all the good deeds to naughty things they smote to now be in possession of said items.
So our Horde..is also Power, and some of us use it as such..dabbling in kingdom building or exercises in business..(living many centuries and with a vast intellect..you do need some distractions.)

Also..the Ladies love the horde...and I love a lady with a "adequate " horde as well, equal hoarding rights and all have been a improvement on Dragon culture..

In some ways we are the ultimate culture of collectors...vast time..and capability, but instead of collecting one coin from a years run...we collect the entire run.

And yes we have quite good internet in our lairs..but typing is a b++!*, so I use dragon..and just talk to type this...:)

Regards
Ashtathlon (semi retired Dragonlord and enforcer of the material plane for natives movement.)


" Your failure has cause me to forget some of my own training!"

" I am sure you can take advantage of your enemies laughter now"

" wearing down your foes weapons with your own body..is not wise idea"

" A stupid move that works...is not so stupid it seems."

" Perhaps shouting before ambushing your target appeared wise in your mind..."

" Your moves are fluid and graceful..if you were a pregnant hippo on stilts....."

" I will be in the bar....."

"next time you can do that with my eyes shut."


NikolaiJuno wrote:
Ashtathlon wrote:

Our campaign has introduced several breeds of horses in four tiers of quality..base horses are barely broken or trained ones, tier 2 is the standard horse in game, tier 3 is a much more well defined breed, (race and nation based), and tier 4 are the absolute best of them.

They range all the way up to a CR5-6 top of the line warhorse...that costs 4-6k gp

and to further enhance the horse process, we also have 20 horse traits that are randomly generated when someone goes shopping for a mount, the tier of the horse is the maximum number of traits it can have.

The traits range in effect and will influence various stats and such..and even reflect a very spirited powerful horse is not for a unskilled rider.

all in all it has added alot of depth to our campaign, and the GM has gone to lengths to keep horses and such as vital to travel..(no overland flight spells..teleports etc)

This sounds awesome. Any way I could get the rules you're using?

Sure send me a email or something and I will try to put together most of the rules for you..we use roll20 and turned the horse traits into a card deck..and the mount breeds are kinda world specific but I can find those for you to.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:

XP does nothing for the game.

Even this "little present" idea, is just the same as leveling, which can be handled without XP.

It's a false reward.

The real reward is leveling.

The game actually improves, as players have no concern about earning XP.

Progressing the story becomes the focus, as that's how you will level.

No boiling ant hills, or searching to fight everything nearby.

Less murderhobo, more roleplaying, better story.

we have exactly zero of those things happening in our campaign for exp..its a kingdom maker sandbox environment with no "story" other than the ones we are pursuing.

We have characters creating families..building bee farms (giant bees), doing espionage missions...trade routes etc.
And we still enjoy tracking exp.
Not every campaign has specific moments that a bell goes off and the players become more powerful.
Hell sometimes we go several sessions without combat and its all RP exp..so different strokes for different games..


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I love XP..its like a little christmas present between games, I enjoy the progress..and the expectation of a new level, and everyone I play with expresses the same.
And we do git slight variances on our earned exp based on rp and involvement..and journal entries ( I suspect the journal entry bonus is due to the GM enjoying reading them)

I have played in "level when the Gm says " games..and I found it lacking in this one simple pleasure for me as a player.


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Our campaign has introduced several breeds of horses in four tiers of quality..base horses are barely broken or trained ones, tier 2 is the standard horse in game, tier 3 is a much more well defined breed, (race and nation based), and tier 4 are the absolute best of them.
They range all the way up to a CR5-6 top of the line warhorse...that costs 4-6k gp

and to further enhance the horse process, we also have 20 horse traits that are randomly generated when someone goes shopping for a mount, the tier of the horse is the maximum number of traits it can have.

The traits range in effect and will influence various stats and such..and even reflect a very spirited powerful horse is not for a unskilled rider.

all in all it has added alot of depth to our campaign, and the GM has gone to lengths to keep horses and such as vital to travel..(no overland flight spells..teleports etc)


Silly hats...I played at a place that had a huge array of historical headwear..so it made some characterizations more appealing when he had a helmet or a peasants hat on...

Well timed theme music and sound effects...I do that for my GM on roll20..i kinda DJ for him.

Yeah wine..mead..ale..and proper goblets..mugs etc to drink them in...some bread to snack on when they go to the Inn.

And keeping distractions to a minimum..phones, tablets etc..try to keep everyone engaged..and spread the RP around.

Lighting , keep it lit enough to see your books and sheets...but stay away from industrial lighting..keep it warm and soft..and candles are cool...just dont let the inevitable idiot that wants to play with the wax, ruin some furniture or such.

...hmm gonna go look around my lair for some other ideas.....


He/she checks ego at the door...adapts to turns of luck...keeps the game moving.
and above all preserves the fun at the table.

And a heavy dose ham/class clown and struggling artist helps as well.


I usually say only crits actually leave a arrow in the target...so if someone has several sticking out of them...they just look hardcore..lol

If they are still alive. :)


And..I like having nice things, and note..not all dragons sleep on their hoards.
I prefer to sleep in a nice scalding steam cave where a waterfall cascades upon a lavaflow...its good for my great wyrm aches.


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Because I don't trust banks........


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Sitting at a table, sharing it with the players that created them...meeting your creators like that....such a disappointment.


Be very good..and die..and when you get to the 7 heavens they will make him a angel...blam wings!


My characters only use bodkins.....lol


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a miniature giant space hamster...


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A honey badger...and have another honey badger as a buddy...two honey badgers is too much :)

Baring that a siberian tiger..with another tiger as a buddy..and get myself a act in vegas.


Wouldn't a fey/human..be pretty much Peter Pan.. :)


I have a fighter/cavalier, that seldom uses a lance..and is plenty useful in RP heavy and non combat situations..and my mount never interferes with intrigue/diplomacy..she is safe in the stables..lol


We had a kinda nasty reverse version of this concept..a grappling vampire barbarian with earth totem...he grappled, pinned and drug a PC underground with burrow....nasty :)


stopping the air flow to cause a build up of flammable gases, that once they accumulate to the point where a prone goblin can light them for a upward explosion of gas to be ignited (gobbos love fire..explosions and risk of death)
the upward pressure will cause a secret door to open etc..
A few bungled tries can cause some pc harm...and the small size and prone being the only way to take minimum damage. (without alternate means)

a series of holes in the wall that have some form of unnatural darkness that requires the pcs to stick their arms in and fumble for a switch/dial/lever...can have alternates with beartraps..poisonous vermin..slime..etc in it.

Play name that floaty in the sewage with a crazy gobbo for a password. :)


Roll20...a VTT (virtual tabletop) rpg community is pretty cool..plenty of flakes, but alot of solid players there, as I have said a few times, I have been playing in a campaign there for 10 months or so..and if we lose players the GM just advertises for new ones..
Not exactly as fun as in person..but a good game is a good game regardless.


I just want to say good luck on this..kinda way out there for me, but I am old..lol
Personally I think you may get more mileage with beating each other senseless with pool noodles in the back yard.
Cause I see alot of rule problems in the future. :)

Good luck anyway.


another take or angle of attack on leadership and tabletop dynamics...
The group I currently play a Kingdom builder campaign with settled upon a procedure where another player runs and RPs the Cohort of the owning player.
Makes for better RP and less exploitation, but we have some very solid RPers that multitask well...and it encourages people to make cohorts that another player may actually enjoy representing.

All in all it has made the leadership feat quite a bit more palatable for the GM..
But no cohort taking leadership feats.lol


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The Army...then Retirement...

Game-wise roll20 and VTT gaming..hated it at first now its great, have a campaign that has been going for over 10 months now.


Just gonna toss this out there..

As a retired and recovering combat vet..I will say that Roleplaying as used by clinicians and such, is a very powerful tool in dealing with some people "triggers" and phobias.....that being said.

This game is not that..and if this is causing that player actual mental duress...STOP IT!..cease desist.
Its not worth making someone relive something or experience a trauma for sake of game play.
So talk to the GM..remove this from the table..and don't return to it..unless the player in question requests it or OKs it.


yeah to avoid this can O worms, myself and my GM and all have decided in our games Cohorts cannot take leadership as a feat..he has enough to do with 6 players..mounts, animal companions, hirelings..etc

But he does allow the higher level followers to slowly gain levels (we play in a Kingdom builder campaign that is going on 10 months RL play time :) )
So if placed in positions of authority or responsibility they will get better at it.
Plus..you can always hire people.


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Pugwampis..teamed up with any other monster that has save or have a bad day abilities...someone casting invisibility on a couple pugwampis..even worse.

Low level swamp witch with a couple this little fellows..makes for unhappy players. ( as a low level encounter.)


Don't railroad
Do not plot hammer.
Enforce consequences of actions (good and ill)
Reward smart play, and good roleplay
Play your monster/bad guys to the limits of their intelligence and knowledge.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes (we all do)
And place player fun as a priority
and make your fun a priority as well.

These are most of the guideposts I have adhered to in my far to many years of GMing, and has kept me in the hobby.

Good luck to you.


Herolab still has it at +1000gp, and I have UE as part of my herolab program.


vital strike and flyby attack are a nice nasty dragon combo..
And cleave can be useful when fighting a bunch of targets..like pcs and cohorts..and animal companions..etc.


well...welcome to the Bane of RPG GMs and players alike...
The Chaotic MEme.
A player that wants to play a CE or CN (and in their mind there is no difference in how they will portray them..just a way they get a GM to agree to its inclusion)
Such player rarely..if ever change and play nice with others..and will always be sitting there waiting to cause problems and suck the spotlight directly on their PC and its antics.

Cut him loose for yours and your other players sanity.

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