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I've been looking at the vigilante and I think I realized the origin of some of the problems that we've seen, but also a bit of the problem with the view. The thing is that the vigilante doesn't just have to be be balanced against other classes (to make sure that the vigilante isn't ridiculously over or under powered) but it also has to be compared to itself.

I am wondering if the problems from the warlock and zealot that we're seeing is from them trying to balance caster versions versus non caster versions. The thing is that so far it looks like the warlock and zealot are looking less interesting and maybe even less effective than say the stalker version. The Avenger version has its own issues but that mostly has to do with the fact that in some ways it's actually playing against type.

What I would suggest is that it might be a good idea for the designers to focus on class intangibles. Stuff that a class can do but that isn't a clear power comparison. IE things like the warlocks mystic bolts versus a different class ability. The thing is right now part of the problem with the vigilante is that the options feel limited, and worse they feel BORING. Most of the other classes feel dynamic when I am building and designing and instead we're seeing something kinda iffy with the vigilante.

The vigilante needs to feel less cookie cutter and more dynamic, it also needs to be able to do its job at least as well as another class trying to copy it. Remember, there is a masked hero version of the swashbuckler for example, and I'd be pretty sure that it will probably fight better than the avenger vigilante and might even be able to do the secret identity stuff better too. What we need for the class is more than raw power, we need options. I had mentioned the idea of something like the shadow companion from a 3.5 book that couldn't fight, couldn't flank, but gave all enemies around it a penalty to hit, saves and AC. Something like that could be really cool for the warlock as an option, or something that lets them use wands and staves better.

I also figure that people here have ideas for different versions of the vigilante that would be interesting and fun. What I guess I'm wondering is what you guys think on this and, if my idea on what part of the core problem is ways we might be able to fix or adjust it.


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Class feature adjustments: They are able to cast and use all abilities in light and medium armor. I'm sorry but this one should have been a no brainer, if they can't do this then the class as a whole requires an overhaul, especially given the current requirements for just getting more spell levels.

For currently listed talents:
Mystic Bolt: Make it supernatual, have the damage it deals be raw energy, and allow a secondary talent to take an elemental flavoring, said flavoring provides elemental damage and the following
Acid:Save or sickened
Electricity:save or dazed
Fire:save or caught on fire
Frost:save or slow
Save DC is 10+1/2 warlock level +int mod.
(I'd also like to be able to use deadly aim etc. with it but if not that, at least this stuff makes it usable and not entirely pointless at mid to high levels)

Bombs:I'd argue allowing to add int to damage, but if that's too strong, consider allowing them to use other talents to purchase alchemist discoveries related to bombs. It's unlikely to make things too problematic and might even allow for some more variation in spell design.

New Talents:
A talent called eldritch channel that gives a flat +4 bonus on all UMD checks as well as improving the effective caster level and saving throw of wands and spell completion items by 2.

New Talent called dark agent, it is similar in principle to a familiar, it conjures up a being of shadow, it can be destroyed if damaged but can be recalled as a full round action. Any enemy it is adjacent to takes a -2 penalty on saving throws, and to hit, you have to be at least 6th level to take this, it is also a swift to direct and move this creature, it does not exist for purposes of flanking.

New talent called Pact of Power, it would effectively allow abilities in a similar vein to bloodlines, offers some thematic opportunities and can help make individual warlocks more distinct.


I'm looking over the vigilante, and the avenger has me...concerned. I like the idea and I agree that it's good to have, but I am seeing an issue with the features given not meshing well with other class abilties. What I mean is this, the main class has a lot of stuff for sudden ambush attacks and generally being sneaky and social. The combat stuff, yes it has a few cool stealth oriented abilities (Suckerpunch, the armor training stuff to stay hidden) most of them don't fit as well. The problem is also that those stealth attacks are only going to be good once, since unlike the other classes there are no spells or talents to allow the avenger to vanish into the shadows again for another ambush.

I'd also point out that ranged could use a bit more love for the vigilante in terms of avenger talents, but that might just be my bias. I love the manuever stuff, and the ability to use vital strike on attacks of opportunity, the charge trick was nice too but by and large I'm a little iffy. Maybe it's just that it doesn't seem to have the same pop that the other versions of vigilante do, but it does feel like it could use a lot more polishing, if only to either be able to take proper advantage of the stealth tricks or a better way to get around being able to use those abilities maybe once in a combat.


Looking this over I'm seeing some fun potential involving suckerpunch and a merciful weapon, using it to produce ambush knockouts. Not useful against undead or certain other beings but still potentially hilarious.


My connection hiccupped during my submission. I don't know if my submission actually got in or not and don't want to submit the same thing twice. Is there any way I can be sure it got in?


Maybe I'm kind of alone in this or maybe I missed the rules for it somewhere. I was just wondering anyone else out there was surprised that there was nothing for the alchemist in terms of firearms. When a lot of other classes were given firearms options it seems odd to me to ignore the alchemist, someone that would presumably know how to do the whole blackpowder thing, had a medium BaB so they could reasonably use the guns in combat, and it would seem, at least to me to fit with them thematically. Perhaps I'm wrong though, any comments on this would be welcome.


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Maybe I'm kind of alone in this or maybe I missed the rules for it somewhere. I was just wondering anyone else out there was surprised that there was nothing for the alchemist in terms of firearms. When a lot of other classes were given firearms options it seems odd to me to ignore the alchemist, someone that would presumably know how to do the whole blackpowder thing, had a medium BaB so they could reasonably use the guns in combat, and it would seem, at least to me to fit with them thematically. Perhaps I'm wrong though, any comments on this would be welcome.


I got ultimate Magus recently and frankly I love it, there are a lot of interesting things in there. The Magus looks like a lot of fun, especially with the black blade option (big Elric fan). The lack of prestige classes was a little disappointing but given that the base classes actually stand on their own quite well I don't really see that as an issue.

In fact only one thing really kept me from putting the book at or near the level of the APG, and that was the witch section. I am currently playing a witch in a pathfinder game, we're using the adventure path 'Legacy of Fire' and I have been enjoying the character and was looking forward to some new hexes, mostly so I could find a replacement for 'slumber' as it's driving the DM a tad nuts.

When I looked over the hexes to say I was disappointed would be an understatement, hexes like Feral speech an prehensile hair were pretty interesting and water breathing actually looks pretty good. The problem though is that a lot of the hexes are either nigh useless or only really valid for an NPC.

Scar and beast of ill omen, for example, are both problematic for different reasons. With scar I'm spending a hex slot to get something that has very few real uses, if any. Beast of Ill Omen has two problems in my mind, one is that it's less useful than say Evil Eye in mechanical terms but it also leaves the familiar a bit vulnerable and since the familiar is also your spellbook that can be a bit of an issue.

On the other side you have things like Cook Person, Child scent, etc. where the idea is clearly for these to be used by the stereotypical evil witch that lives in gingerbread houses and devours overfed bavarian children. Now I actually think these are kind of interesting, I even got an idea for a villain looking at Cook Person, but they aren't usable for the player. I get that the game isn't all about the players but when it seems like many of the hexes are inferior to what was in the APG or are unusable for a normal game things get a tad problematic.

Some of the problem is simply this, many of the hexes given ended up being impractical for player use if they didn't fall under too weak or villain fodder. For example there is a hex gives a person damage over the span of minutes where they get fresh saving throws, for a player this is questionably useful since odds are they'd focus more on immediate battle hexes and if minutes are kicking in then more likely the entity in question as plot armor or can likely make the save. In either case, not very helpful.

I want it to be known that I really did enjoy the book overall and I like the witch, but with the stuff listed the hexes were almost universally disappointing. Some of the archetype stuff was good, but I wish we had gotten either better hexes or more archetypes. And before anyone complains about 'roll-playing' or any of that crap, my issue here is that the witch material felt very lacking compared to the other stuff in the book, and given Paizo's record otherwise I found it rather annoying.


Necromancy Spell, 5th level, Arcane.
Reflex:Half SR:yes Target: all creatures in10ft radius burst plus 5 feet per 2 caster levels.
This spell turns your body into a conduit of negative energy, allowing you to strike at multiple foes 1d8/caster level negative energy damage. (maximum 15d8) and on casting the wielder takes 1d6/2 caster levels negative energy damage

Do you think it works, too strong or weak?


Ok, this might be a kind of goofy or odd question but it has been bugging me. I got a look at the Swordbound Magus and there are a few things that I want clarification on.

1) Just being sure, but if you do swordbound you are at Int mod +1/3 your level in points for the spell pool instead of 1/2 correct?

2) Looking at it a problem arose, for the weapon can it be enchanted and/or is it necessary, I know that it seems to get an innate +1-5 bonus on it I was more wondering about adding features and if there was anything special for it (sorry if it's a stupid question)