Arcesilaus's page

I have, up to this point, been pretty disappointed with the Second Darkness AP, for reasons discussed in other threads (most importantly, the shortening of the adventures). For what it's worth, I still think the adventures are fairly well done, but not on par with anything done in Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson Throne.

That said, having read A Memory of Darkness, I feel that things are getting better. This has been, by far, my favorite of the 5 SD adventures so far, and it really captures the "cool" parts of traveling to an elven kingdom, gate-hopping around the continent, and dealing with a demon-besieged fortress. I enjoyed reading the adventure almost as much as some of the Rise of the Runelords adventures (CotCT still blows everything else out of the water).

Now, my only complaint is the state of the Winter Council. Over the course of the 5 adventure, the Council is built up as a shadowy Illuminati-like group of elders that have been running things all over the world for longer than humans have been recording history. They have been portrayed as powerful and knowledgeable, able to call down assassin attacks and pull strings from across continents. Further, one imagines that any demonic siege that is focused on wiping out the lone elven redoubt within their vast woodland holdings would be a mighty force, including some of the most powerful demons on the plane. But, when the PCs finally find them, the Council consists of 4 sad, lonely hermits and their tiny team of defenders being besieged by a squad of demonic middle-management whom the PCs are never expected to encounter in any meaningful way (I know this could go lots of ways, depending on the characters' actions, but it's still not a very memorable pack of demons). In fact, although I read the rest of the adventure very carefully and couldn't put it down, I really lost interest when the party reached Thorn's End, because the whole setting was such a letdown.

I feel like the Winter Council would be much more intriguing if it wasn't neutered before the party ever arrives. It should consists of a decent number of elven elders (perhaps 12, now that their 13th member has taken the path of the drow) who continue to be active in elven politics and wield significant power. It makes a much more fun encounter if the PCs have to deal with a real Political Entity that shows the patient, long-view, and Machiavellian scheming that the Winter Council should be using. To counter that, the demonic force should be equally powerful, a real threat to such mighty elves. As long as the power levels increases are roughly equivalent, it doesn't really affect the plot all that much, but makes for a much more dramatic encounter.

Thoughts?

O

As the thread says, my gaming group finished Rise of the Runelords today, and Karzoug was defeated (mostly). My players feel appropriately heroic, and, amazingly, only one character died (permanently) over the course of the entire AP. It was a blast, and I think everyone truly feels that Paizo published a quality product. Everyone is excited to start CotCT next week. That said, looking back, there are several things that I wish I had done differently and several things I DID do differently. In the interest of providing some feedback as well as possible guidance for those to come as they strive to prevent the return of the despicable Runelords, here are the things that I would or did do differently:

Burnt Offerings
This was a great start to the campaign and an adventure that my entire group enjoyed. I only wish I had played up the backgrounds a bit more and made the NPCs in this adventure more memorable for the players. As the DM, I know how interesting Nualia and her henchmen are, but I didn't do a good job of letting the PCs in on the whole backstory. I guess I didn't let them talk enough. Interaction with the NPCs in Sandpoint was pretty decent, though, and my players loved anything that had to do with getting to know and protecting the townsfolk. One of the PCs actually ended up marrying Shayliss in a huge ceremony. Sandpoint was a highlight of the adventure. I wish also that I had played up the wackiness of the goblins in Thistletop a bit more. When they attacked Sandpoint, I played it up, but at home, they were much more traditional goblins, which is a shame.

The Skinsaw Murders
My players' favorite adventure. It helped that I had the PC rogue burning down the area mills to impress the Szcarni. This naturally made him a suspect in the Sandpoint murders. Wheee! The scarecrow encounter didn't really work out for me, and I'm not sure if it was because I don't have the patience to run what was essentially a maze encounter, or if the individual ghouls were too easy. Either way, it ended up being pretty yawn-worthy. I should have played up the "human victims tied to sticks" aspect, to make the players unsure whether the twitching scarecrow was a ghoul worth killing or a human that needs to be saved. Foxglove Manor was amazing (everyone loves the haunts), even though Aldern was a little obvious as the bad guy. He was also a push-over at the end of the day, and I should have either: 1) given him some ghoul minions for support and 2) left him as a human. I think that would make what he's doing even creepier. Everyone knows monsters kill people ... when people kill people, that's eeeevil. I did the fix suggested for Xanesha and replaced her with Lucrecia from HMM, but it was still nearly a TPK, and escape came only with some friendly universe-shaking from the DM. So, in short, the encounters in this module were either too easy or too hard.

The Hook Mountain Massacre
This was probably my biggest change in the whole AP. I moved Fort Rannick MUCH closer to Sandpoint, playing on my players' desire to protect home-base, and they certainly appreciated it. I made Paradise a gambling den beneath the Fatman's Feedbag and let the rogue actually see it before it burnt down and killed his contacts in the Szcarni. The party met Xanesha and Lucrecia together and wiped them out this time. Overall, this part of the adventure went well, and my players leaped at the opportunity to fix up Fort Rannick and take over. In fact, the cleric in the party founded a new order, The Hand of the Light, to protect the surrounding countryside. In retrospect, I wish I had run the final battle with Barl Breakbones as a siege encounter, in which the remaining ogres and giants attacked Fort Rannick. As it stands, the players never got the opportunity to play with their new toy, which is the basic problem with the last half of the AP. After all this Sandpoint build-up ... off they go.

Fortress of the Stone Giants
This was probably the weakest of the adventures for my group, although the stone giant raid was awesome! Definitely one of the highlights of the campaign. From there, though, it seemed a bit unrealistic that these captives were hauled all the across the continent to be sacrificed and kept alive while the PCs traveled, planned, rested between fights, etc. The players wisely skipped most of the aboveground area of Jorgenfist, the black mummy and harpies were essentially a page-waste, and I dropped a lot of the off-theme encounters underground (the kobold barbarian, the trolls, the scanderig, and the shining child of Thassilon). I wish I had made the tribal situation above ground more political and something the PCs could have been involved in more directly. The idea that they just wander off after Mokmurian dies was sort of anti-climactic. I managed to rescue it a bit when the cleric took the Leadership feat. For his cohort, I gave him a young stone giant brave who had been sent to help the party by his tribe.

Sins of the Saviors
The Scribbler was a waste. I wish I had simply found another way to give the PCs the riddle that led to Runeforge. His guards and wards was simply annoying and he was a cakewalk, although the glabrezu caused some trouble. My players really enjoyed the remainder of this adventure, though, and the sin-themed dungeons were a hit. I wish they had been a bit more involved and that all 7 sins had had dungeons, but I understand space restrictions (stupid Scribbler!). The necromancy dungeon was too long, though, and I cut a fair number of the unnecessary encounters there. It was this adventure, by the way, in which my players finally commented on the Golarion diary fetish and vowed to never write anything down, when they became evil masterminds. I also should have either made the directions for creating runeforged weapons more clear or, since my players ended up with 6 different flavors of runeforged weapon, given them more opportunities to use the abilities of the non-domineering weapons.

Spires of Xin-Shalast
By this point in the campaign, my players were starting to look at each other at the beginning of each session and say things like, "Why are we doing this, again? We're trying to stop what now?" Karzoug had finally been identified as the BBEG, but the players had no sense of the urgency or of the consequences of failing to prevent his return. They had just been told (by a bad guy and a bad guy's diary, of course) that Karzoug needed to be stopped and said, "okay, I guess." I should have made it more clear how evil Karzoug was and made it more of a personal mission to stop him. At this point, they were so far away from Sandpoint that they had no personal attachment to anything that was going on at this point. The dwarven cottage was a nice touch, and one of my players actually said, "This is Pathfinder, so it's going to be creepy." I reworked Svevenka to make her a bit more interesting and useful, but my party never really needed her help, because ... they skipped Xin-Shalast. I should have seen it coming, but I figured they'd hit the Spire and then return to the city find Sihedron Rings. Turns out that the save DCs for the occlusion field were so ridiculously low that the whole party just weathered the storm until they killed some giants in the main spire and stole their rings. I did manage to throw Ghlorofaex at them, but they avoided everything else. Alas. Also, I didn't use the "death zone" altitude rules, as they seemed to be a real hassle and can only be overcome by a wizard (something my party lacked). The fights within the spire were pretty cool (except Viorian, who only got one turn), and the final battle against Ceoptra, Khalib, and minions was awesome.

In summary, my group very much enjoyed the AP, and I learned a great deal about how to run a whole campaign from start to finish (I ran Age of Worms, also, but RotRL was much more solid). I hope this information is an interesting read and maybe provides some suggestions for other DMs. YMMV. It seems CotCT has managed to correct some of the issues I had with RotRL, and I'm really looking forward to running it.

By the way, in case you're wondering, Karzoug was not slain. The party cleric managed to turn him into a ruby statue with Chellan, the sword of greed, and the Soul Lens was destroyed, stranding Karzoug in the pocket dimension of the Runewell as a statue, until someone comes along and dispels his transformation. Look for Rise of the Runelords II coming next summer, and this time it's personal!

O

A note to others regarding Jorgenfist:

I missed out on this opportunity but thought I'd throw it out there for others. Personally, I wasn't overwhelmed by this adventure, as I am not one for the dungeon-slog with lots of unrelated creatures standing around waiting for the PCs to show up and kick their butts. (dislcaimer: I understand, however, that there is a place for this adventure in D&D and do not fault anyone for the writing of FotSG). One way to spice this adventure up would be to focus on the kidnapped Sandpoint citizens and turn the scenario into an exciting rescue attempt. If your players are at all wise, they will use some divination/scouting maneuvers to get the lay of the land before "storming the castle." Give them an opportunity to see one of the townsfolk undergo the Sihedron ritual and then be ritually sacrificed and thrown into the pit. Make it clear that the other townsfolk will suffer the same fate, and soon! Now, the PCs have a time limit and a specific goal, rather than the very vague "prevent the giant army's invasion." Reduce or eliminate most of the non-giant encounters above ground, as they will just slow things down as the PCs are trying to infiltrate the fortress (the river caves are valuable here). Keep Longtooth in the mix, though, if he survived the raid on Sandpoint, as his recurrence will be fun. Ideally, the PCs should interrupt a sacrifice-in-progress (Shayliss is ideal if she has developed a relationship with a PC). Mokmurian should make a token effort, but if the PCs put up an resistance, he orders his guards to attack (including Galenmir) and dimension doors to his room on the Library level, taking his hostage, of course. Now the PCs have to battle their way through the caverns to fight Mokmurian and save the damsel. You will want to remove many (most) of the encounters down there, though, so the party doesn't need to stop and rest, which obviously won't work. You might leave Conna as a useful ally but you can afford to make her a bit less trustworthy, since the PCs will be in a hurry and will need to make some choose the lesser of two evils. Also, make it clear that the giant troops aren't allowed inside Jorgenfist, so the PCs aren't worried that the whole army is going to come marching in after them while they are attempting the rescue. At the end of the day, the PCs save the citizens and have a much more action-packed adventure!

I wish I had thought of this before I was half-way through the dungeon. Alas.

O

Hi. I had a couple observations and one bit of tweaking I wanted comment on.

1) For Enga Keckvia, kobold "ratcatcher," it says in the During Combat notes that she fights with her back to a wall to minimize flankers. Of course, since she has Improved Uncanny Dodge, she doesn't really need to worry about being flanked, so I would ignore this bit of advice.

2) In the notes for the Library level, it states that there is no illumination in the rooms unless noted. The runeslave giant, however, doesn't have darkvision. Is he really sitting there in the dark? With an Intelligence of 2, I suppose it's possible, but it seems a little unlikely. I don't really expect a response on this one, since it's obviously nitpicking. I figured I'd just note it for other GMs, so you're not caught by the players' complaints down the line.

3) I think The Headless Lord's attack modifier is wrong. If I calculate correctly it should be +15/+10 and +15. It seems not to be taking into account the -2 for fighting with two weapons. Has this been intentionally left out?

4) Do the Zombie Hill Giants really have 24 HD? I don't think the number of hp is unreasonable, but I see this scenario playing out such that the party cleric turns undead, likely turning The Headless Lord (who only has 12 HD and +4 turn resistance), and leaving his minions totally unfazed. To make matters worse, the cleric has Improved Turning, so he will flat-out destroy the cool monster, and the party will then have to slog through the minions. I have no problem with PCs being able to use their cool powers and 1-shotting a bad guy (that's why they have the powers, after all), but this encounter seems like it's set for anticlimax. Any way to fix this without nerfing the zombies too much?

O

So, the PCs find the strange land-bound ship in the Shimmerglens and, after some serious wiping at muck and moss, discover its name to be the Celestial Monarch (I don't remember now why this name popped into my head as I was desperately casting about for something (usually I change my favorite band names into things like inns, e.g. Jets to Brazil = Griffin's Flight to Waterdeep, Modest Mouse = The Humble Rodent, Built to Spill = The Leaning Tankard, etc.)). Anyway, the bard makes a ridiculous bardic knowledge roll, and suddenly I'm forced to come up with a story for the ship: Assuming the ship was named after its most prominent passenger, I declare that the bard has heard tales of a faerie queen of the First Realm that, as part of a pact with the humans of this world, wed one of the Linnorm Kings. The fey queen lived with her husband dutifully until the end of his mortal life, then packed her belongings onto a ship and set out into the expanse of the ocean and was never heard from again. My thinking is that she eventually ended up setting up shop in a foreign land, setting up a gate to the First Realm, and eventually we have the Shimmerglens.

My questions:

1) How long ago could something like this have happened? Could this be a story from Thassilonian times, or are Linnorm Kings a relatively new creation? I ask only because the PCs are determined to discover what area the nautical charts refer to. If they are pre-cataclysm, I have no problem telling them that they are impossible to place by anyone living. If younger than that, then it seems like someone should be able to figure them out. I could just make them maps of the Linnorm coast, but as I think about it, maybe it should be a chart that supposedly leads to a nautical route back to the First Realm, the faerie queen's passage home after fulfilling her end of the bargain with the humans. Sadly, the charts were mislabeled (on purpose?) and she was lost to the swamps. Hmmmm. Thoughts?

2) Are nymphs immortal? Could Myriana be that same faerie queen? After meeting her, the PCs already believe she is Queen of the Swamp and seemed truly moved by her desecration and death.

3) As a side-quest, I ran these PCs through Wingclipper's Revenge (Dungeon 132), in which they received a token (two-headed coin) from the Grey Man, which they can use to call in for a favor from the fey at some point down the line. Any thoughts on how to tie these two elements together?

I ask because I am frequently impressed by the creativity of folks on these boards. Any help is appreciated.

O

This is an interesting timing coincidence, as I was just writing this up when I checked the boards ...

IMC, Shayliss was pretty handily rejected by the only suitable PC (only human male), even after a second try. I think the players thought that would be the last they saw of her. After her sister's death, though, I started to describe PC encounters with her around town, and she always had a new bruise on her face or sling on her arm. Clearly Ven was taking the loss of his daughter pretty hard and was hitting the hooch he keeps in the basement (not to mention Shayliss). Usually these encounters were with other members of the party, who would report back to the original love interest, who has started feeling more and more responsible.

I then set her up as a barmaid/lady of ill-repute in Paradise (I set this in Sandpoint instead of Turtleback Ferry for all sorts of reasons). She was the classic "trying to pay for my way out of this town" figure. The rogue who ran into her there very gallantly refused her offers of "additional services," and ran back to inform the love-interest. Before anything could be done, the place burnt down, though (luckily, Shayliss had the night off).

Now Shayliss has heard that the PCs are fixing up Fort Rannick (now located just a long day's ride northeast of Sandpoint) and has approached the love-interest, bruised and bloodied by Ven's latest fit of anger, begging to be taken on as a servant, maid, whatever at the Fort, just to get her out of Sandpoint and away from her father.

I expect the PC will take pity on her and take her to Fort Rannick. Ultimately, I imagine a romantic conclusion to this subplot, although I suspect there will be further twists (an errant knight who lures poor Shayliss into bed and then departs, leaving her in a family way, etc.).

I have loved this little addition from day one, and my players have commented on this AP's role-playing options and involvement with NPCs. Good work, writers!

O

ooops. I'm SO disappointed, in fact, that I only gave the adventure 2 out of 3 Faces. Obviously, I don't have professional editors reading my work.

o