Anonymous User 747's page

For what it is worth, I think I mentioned with the save was announced as failed before I did this (and the crit was confirmed). As to my reason for asking this, this was a spot decision I am OK with happening. What I wanted to do was gauge community reaction and cause discussion with "if this happens again" what should I do. Crits from *3 weapons or spell effects can be blantaly deadly, especially at low levels where dropping from full-to-dead is reasonable.

So per other's talk, I'm not beating myself up on the decision, which was partially based on not knowing the players (and assuming con new players) and having done a near-TPK at a previous non-low level table (i had enough blood on my hands :)). I'm just trying to figure out (and want the community to think about) how this should be handled "in general".

That's where the "gray area" of tricks, as well as GM fiat, comes in. As a "Druid" animal companion, he gets some tricks free, and the combat set costs 3 tricks, includes both all attack commands and heel, and gives him armor proficiency. So while they are still too stupid to flank and such (most GMs rule), if you tell your boar "Charge that guy" he'll charge it. Now he won't go tracking or anything, but at least he's a good companion; something I'd personally place at much higher importance than a 5 min / day weapon mod.

The 3 int piece is a house ruling that Treatmonk listed, but isn't a guideline; so if your GM rules differently take it with a grain of salt. Most GMs give you full control, but you will find some sticklers that will say you need Animal Handling to get it to do anything outside of its tricks; in which case you may need to take a trait and put a few points into handle animal (either your non-diplomacy skill or favored class bonus).

If it all seems too complicated, around level 11 the weapon IS the better nod (a flexible +3 add for 11 mins / day is stellar). So if the campaign is going long you can build for the long-term and go that route to keep it simple.

Maybe you like the flavor and concept best; but casters, especially mages, have their obvious weaknesses... lack of direct damage output, ability to deal with great saves, etc. They aren't even the best battlefield controller; that role actually goes to the tripper-polearm fighter, who can with far higher likelihood leave every creature around him on the ground. The best damage dealers? Rangers specialized in bows with a "Booned" animal companion (the damage from the companion gives them a minor edge over the Zen Archer)? Most survivable? Pallies or Monks at mid and high levels; fighters early. Really mages break the game where they over-bend fabrics of reality later, but for most levels people actually play (not 7, but till about 7th level spells @ 13) they are strictly average. And even at those high levels they have to pray for init or suprise; if someone is faster than they are, poor hp and bad saves will generally end them.

All of this excludes summoners, who are technically casters, and incidentally can outperform everyone at every level sadly.

The sad reality is that as much as you can get into the "Monk vs Wizard" high-level pissing contest, it's not relevant, it's party vs monsters at low-to-mid levels, and traditionally, from my gaming experiences, monks simply suck here.

I think we all can agree combat manuversnare very difficult to pull off vs BBEGs, so all monk (and fighter) builds built on these without getting them for free have generally just wasted a lot of actions. If you disagree I'd be interested to be proven wrong, but even at low-to-mids NPCs are often very strong. At mids you start to get into casters who are also unnaturally strong (demons/devils).

At these levels where +5 whatever don't grow on trees, Monks have difficulty with AC. Given the potion of shield is imaginary, and simply "defending yourself" isn't helping the party, we'll say by 3rd a monk can have an AC of, say, 17-18 (+1 amulet/ring, pair of 16s in Dex/wis, being very generous). Their damage will be similarly mediocre (not comparable with any real weapon users till about 11th level), and their tricks will be far.

As a traditional buffer, I often feel compelled to overbite the monk just so he doesn't feel worthless; eatin up slots with mage armor and the like.

Now, I haven't seen a ton post-APG, i'm convinced it helped them get past the DR issue, but I still don't see these "get the Mage in the middle" battles occurring as often as you see (apparently?). Usually if the monk were to run into the middle in a large scale combat lots of people could converge on him; most monks aren't that stupid.

So where does that leave us? A roleless class which we all love but which looks much better in concept than in practice... I compare them to the much beloved but never really working Eldrich Knight. They can do OK, but in or out of combat they have many superior options.

Basically the move is very far from multiclassing in general. In 3.5 it was rampant; as people picked-and-chose abilities from various prestige to make insano-gods. Characters, especially melée, might have 8 classes by life end.

I think PF has wisely moved away from that; giving huge benefits for sticking with 1 class, even for melée characters. The fallout is that multiing even a little loses a good bit of power.

Also, many classes simply don't have much synergy, especially the much desired Fighter/Mage. You'll never have the hp or AC to be front-line, and you give up the caster's spell advancement rate. All to gain fighting + spells flexibility. This same flexibility can easily be gained by being a full-time Cleric, Oracle, or Bard; but people want to mix instead of take what is presented.

I am of the melée Mage types as well; one day we'll have a sneaky-magic type (some Beguiler / Spellthief equivalent). The new classes did add the tactical warrior (Inquisitor) and the better-suited combat cleric (Oracle), so we are getting the twists we're looking for.

The minutes per level thing would just be preporostorus. Even a few extra rounds is too long; take from one who played a summoner-speced cleric in 3.5.

The class is STILL amazing. You bring in both a high-level fighter (that's almost on par or properly evolution min-maxed BETTER than a party's fighter) with their own support "bard" in the background.

It also brings into effect another issue: miniture spamming. You remember 3.5 and Druids with animal companions and a few dogs summoning every round? It's already back in force; it sucks, it's hard to keep up with, and makes the PCs take up a lesser slot.

No, contrary to most posters I feel the Summoner wasn't weakened enough; it still has the two-character issue and the sucks to have in your party issue. You don't want monsters to be able to be prepped and run controlled through the dungeon; that's what minute-per-level summons do. You don't want the Edilon to outshine the party's dedicated melee... while I haven't verified yet, I don't believe the changes they've listed have done enough (you can still make a mega-damage pouncemonster of energy; at least now he won't have the "cheating" AC levels to make him MORE insane).