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Just because you are wise, that doesn't mean a fence or a criminal couldnt put one over on you. They have to fleece the wise and the cautious all the time, if they want to survive in any world in which not everyone is gullible.

So by all means, switch Str and Con, and remain wise. If anything, this gives you a roleplaying hook of some sort, either more wisdom (realizing that wisdom alone isnt always sufficient) or perhaps giving you a suspicious nature or giving you a bit of a feeling of disappointment with yourself, or any number of things that could come from overlooking the fence.

There's always another way to spin something, from a character perspective.

You don't have to make your players build in a certain way, nor do you have to disallow it. Also, you can certainly make magic shops unavailable, or limit them. I use an online thing I found for whats available in a city, and every once in a while half the items change out. Players can either buy those, use what they find, pay an NPC to craft something, or do it themselves.

It seems to work fine, despite players not trivially being able to buy wands of cure light or enlarge person or etc.

So just give your own preferences a try. If they don't work, just adjust as you go.

Or you could always play GURPS, which is a game I like. You don't ever have to give out a single magic item in that game, and it won't screw your players at all if you don't. The economy of power isn't build around items.

But I think Pathfinder will still serve you well. Just look for issues as you move forward, and deal with them if you need to.

So, simply from curiosity, I am trying to figure out this bard's numbers. He is level 10, so I guess he could have:

Stat +5
Savant trait +2
Class skill bonus +3
Ranks +10
Skill Focus feat +6 (level bonus included)
Prodigy feat +4 (level bonus included)
Magic & equipment +X

I guess if he were into Oratory he could make Speeches at +3 to the above using the Voice of the Sibyl. But assuming not, that all comes down to a perform check of d20 + X + 30, where X is any bonus from spells, magic items, and gear. Not bad. Is there a way for bards to take 10 on Perform checks?

Anyway, thats pretty cool.

Are there any other wacky prestige classes or archetypes that could push it higher? Either a flat bonus or a scaling one (such as how a Diviner gets lvl/2 to initiative checks)?

Also, Halflings and Gnomes are a different race. In the real world, chimpanze muscles have a different fiber/strand layout, have some genetic differences, and are closer to the bone, resulting in great strength for their size. Maybe not the exaggerated 5x strength you hear thrown about, but still enough that even smaller chimps are as strong or stronger than humans.

Anyway, the "heroics" or "fun" angles are probably better justification.

I bought a book called Gary Gygax's Book of Names. It has huge lists from major real-world cultures and languages, rules for fantasy names, fae, orcs, evil-sounding names, demonic names, etc. It also has rules for using syllables and stuff to build these names from scratch in some cases.

So you might try looking at real-world name lists. I was able to find some real human names that sound orcish, sylvan, etc. I also found that using Russian names works well, because many of them feel different yet familiar, such as Maximilian, Agafia, Veronika, Fyodor, Varvara, Ruslan, etc.

I dislike:

Swift actions required for Eldritch Knight capstone and arcane armor feats. Should be free.

Magic items shops, assumed wealth & magic, and assumptions of magic item availability.

Bonded item penalty if you lose it. Arcane bonds generally ... You should be able to swap it for a feat.

Domain spells cant go in non domain slots. Hate that.

Gunslinger mechanics (I am fine with guns).

Weapon crit ranges and damage values still make weird weapons common and normal weapins rare. Would love to see all weapons get crit ranges bumped up to match scimitar.

I hate that humans get an extra feat. Ropes me into being human way too often. Would rather all races get 2 feats at level one. Extra skill points for being human is still enough to make humans desirable.

Polymorph spells suck now, and too many spells have reduced duration.

I will probably just rock the Heavy Mace. I guess. You dont see that often, do you? :) I may lose on having an extra point or so of damage, and I will sport a crappy crit range, but oh well.

They ought to just make longswords into simple weapons. Nobody uses them. Its all stuff like "a half quaggoth half kitsune with a level dip in this plus finesse and giving up this race trait for that one can have a whip in one hand, elven curve blade in the other, a falchion in its now-prehensile tail and a rapier in its mouth and then do a dervish whirlwind ki smite for 80 damage by level 2" .... Dang man, I just want my Inquisitor to use a longsword, yo. Its not even good or anything. Maybe I am just bitter because I couldnt find some weird workaround for me. :)

Thanks for all the replies!

All,

As a general question, what classes make good options for pirate or ocean campaigns?

As a more specific question, in an ocean/pirate campaign, what other class would compliment a ranger, cleric, wizard and rogue in an ocean/pirate setting?

But really, I'm just wondering about more general thoughts, since I dont know for sure that the 4 I mentioned would actually be used. Thats just a "best guess" on what others in the group might do.

So I am just looking for general opinions too.

Thanks!

I dont think you can. He has powers which are as strong as they are diverse.

From a feel perspective, i would consider 4 levels of Dark Tapestry Oracle (to get Cloak of Darkness, Many Forms, and level 2 spells). Then go Ninja all the way, taking all the acrobatics Ki powers, invis powers, ghost step powers, etc that you can. Maybe even use Ninja to pick up the Minor and Major magic Rogue Tricks.

Again, thats just a "feel" approach.

All,

Do Brawlers and Unarmed fighters get by on a d3 for base damage? Is that really how they work? Or do they have some way to improve their base damage like monks do with Unarmed Strike? Or do their feats and class levels really let them hang in fights at all level ranges?

I mean, I guess when they use weapons other than unarmed strike, they are fighters using weapons, weapons that can be enchanted and weapons for which they can pick fighter feats. But I would think that when they use unarmed strikes (improved) then they are rocking a d3 that isn't a magic weapon and that doesnt scale up in damage like a monk does?

Thanks!

You could also just play with a Wizard player like me. I am not a very good power gamer, and I am picky. I hate having to pick spell A and then spell B because they are powerful in conjunction. I just pick spells I like, and usually I never have time or money to have a zillion spells, and I dont usually ask people to let me go rest a day so that I can skip a situation. I like evocation magic but I dont build for it. I dont carry meta magic rods or tricky stuff around. Also, in our games, you cant just go to S-mart and buy spells or magic items. Population and random rolls determine scrolls and items, otherwise commission or make them yourself.

I always play wizards, and everyone else plays fighters and rogues and barbarians, and I never outshine anyone. I always see these batgod threads and wonder why I suck so bad. But that just isnt how I build. Usually, I cast and fail SR or the foe makes his save and my turn is done.

So maybe just encourage the normal/not-good-at-optimization guy in your group to be the wizard. I have had fun for decades playing Wizards, despite always being the weakest/least effective party member.

NO! No errata! I like the longer ages!

At least leave the other ages other than maturity high. I want a race that lives a long time, isnt a small or slow race, and isnt an elf.

Why do people always want to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?! Darn errata! :)

Yeah, but then you get into Ignosticism and such, where even discussing the statement "god exists" is pointless since the definition of what constitutes a god is not well defined.

Also, I am not so much an empirical agnostic as I am a strict/strong one. So the question of "god" isnt merely unknown. It is unknowable. Even if it ascends from the depths riding on its hovercraft filled with eels. Anyway, if you find yourself dead and in heaven or hell, is it the god you expected, or are you in the Matrix (Doctor Who version or Keannu version)??? In strong/strict agnosticism, it is understood that we can only verify an experience by use of other subjective experiences.

I view this as more than mere solipsism. I feel comfortable saying that I am typing on my mobile, all assumptions about the senses being accepted. But if I were teleported from here to pluto faster than light could travel, or if I die and awake at the feet of Osiris, my trust level in my senses is altered.

The very kind of experience / evidence required to prove "god" umdermines the very trust in experience itself. You might merely be in a coma at that point.

Anyway, I am just rambling. But you can certainly be an atheist, even while having tea with Zeus in another solar system. Either because you dont give credence to your senses, or because the entity across the table, while impressive, doesnt meet your definition of what constitutes a god. Kinda like how Captain America doesnt view Thor as a god. "There's only one god, ma'am." He may die, wake in Valhalla, but know in his heart that Jesus is gonna show up any decade now. We may die, end up in a lake of fire while Jesus is showing off his stamp collection to the in-crowd in Heaven, and we might still be expecting Quetzalcoatl to show up and take us away from all this. Or you can view him as a cruel sycophantic misanthrope with ultimate power but certainly not a god.

Point is, you can easily justify atheism in Golarion, since a subset of the various types of agnosticism would apply, even while chatting with a god, and agnosticism is always a good justification for atheism.

Anyway, again, just rambling. :)

All,

My friends and I are starting a new Pathfinder game. We dont know a ton about the setting, but we want to slowly work into it. It is a 5-player game, with shared GMs. I will be one of the main GMs, as will one other guy. Any player CAN be GM if they have story ideas, but mainly two of the five will be primary GMs.

I know that Golarion is more detailed in either adventure paths (I currently have none) and in more broad books. So I am wondering where you might suggest for starting a campaign.

We would like it to be nearest to a small village or two as the game starts out, but to be close enough to other kingdoms and/or dangerous areas of interest that the game could kinda grow in that direction. Kinda like how the old Greyhawk village, Hommlet, was not too terribly far from Veluna, Furyondy (or however it was spelled) etc.

Does anyone have a suggestion for which area or country might have a place like this that we could just create and drop in? Somewhere that a campaign could have lots of adventure and be off the beaten path somewhere, and yet have some of the more interesting sights/cities/kingdoms/ruins within a week or so journey?

I mean I could, and will, make an arbitrary decision, esp if I get few responses. Just wondering if there are any areas that jump out at you. Somewhere that can start slow, but visit big?

Thanks!

Cleric, Druid and Wizard. Seriously.

I know because I am the only one who ever plays them. And I take it on as a burden because I hate Clerics. I hate animal companions. And I prefer blasting. So I am always uncomfortable.

In our groups, it is always either dwarf fighters, or various mixed class light melee skirmishers (rogue, monk, bard, swashbuckley type mongrels).

Ugh. For the last 10 years (obviously, much of it pre PF).

Wow. Long, divisive thread.

I am a player who sometimes misses games (say, 25%) and I would flat out refuse being given experience for a session I missed. I would be made unhappy by being kept up with everyone else. I am fine being a bit behind, or even a lot behind.

Of course, I came up in a game where all new characters are level 1, regardless. So maybe I am used to games where being 1 to 10 levels behind happens routinely. But oir group finds that kind of thing fun (being the apprentice, trainee, underdog, lackey).

I hope not. The chaos stuff in warhammer ultimately made our d&d game that was set there fizzle out.

I hope it will be the case that the Lovecraft elements will be ignorable in the main setting. I like the Lovecraft stuff, but I dont like it in my fantasy settings. Keep your chocolate out of my peanut butter too, while youre at it. :)

I will not ever play a cleric of Sarenrae.

If the only way to ever get fire and healing in the setting is via an aspect of Sarenrae, and if the other fire gods are evil, or lawful dwarfs, or machines, then hey. I will just make some other character. Or if we ever run a Golarion game (and I hope our group will) then mayne we will move the elemental lords to neutral (instead of NE).

All,

I hope this forum is the correct one for discussing the Golarion setting. I am not currently playing in a Pathfinder game. We are still playing a 3.5E Ptolus game. So these comments are general comments about the setting that arise out of my natural enjoyment of reading about game settings.

So, I find the Golarion gods to mostly feel a bit lackluster. Somehow, they seem to be missing something. Maybe it is because I am used to the specific gods from Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, snd the plethora of options. But I just feel that the deities lack something.

For one thing, I love the Fire domain for Pathfinder Clerics, and I love the Flame/Fire mystery for Oracles. And yet the only gods available with Fire as part of their ethos are Asmodeus & Sarenrae. Or maybe some evil Devils or evil elementals that grant spells. I am not down with evil gods, and I could not find a less interesting ethos for a good fire deity than Sarenrae if I tried. There just dont seem to be the spectrum of neutral and good gods with Fire as part of the ethos. They even made the elemental lords overtly evil here.

In fact generally, I am missing the wild / primal / wilderness Female gods I am used to. Somehow, I just cant get into male nature gods. I miss several gods that just dont have a match, either because of style, personality or gender. Selune, Kossuth, Mielikki, Ehlonna, Joramy, Wee Jas, and others.

And yeah, lots of times the genders feel wrong.

Anyway, is there a chance any more demigods might be created? Maybe a wild chaotic good or chaotic neutral goddess of fire, healing, chaos, destruction, and good? :)