Ale, the 4th level potion's page

Organized Play Member. 18 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


Andy Brown wrote:

Or to put it another way (as I understand things)

At odd-numbered levels, learn 2 spells of one level higher than your current highest;
At even numbered levels, learn one spell of the highest level you can cast.

So when you first get access to a new level of spells, you learn 2 of them, then the next level you learn a 3rd spell at that level

To specify 1st level you get to choose 1 1st level spell and your muse determines the other.

I've been reading more in the past couple days then I have in the last 3 months. Which is probably good for my brain. And for that Paizo I thank you.

From reading all the forums and playtest books, I've completely changed my opinion about 2ed. But it required some introspection, and maybe a 4th level potion or two.

Day 1. I save pdfs to my phone and computer, and other computer, and tablet... whatever you get it. I start making a bard and I get upset. This guy is garbage. Then looking a the bestiary I find that he probably won't be great at debuffing. My problem: I tried to make a jack of all trades good at nothing and won. Bard in 2ed was changed to be what it pretended to be in 1ed. Bard was finally the compliment to cleric. Instead of healing and defense, the bard now hands out pain and murderous tendencies. I had expectations of the same old but somehow magically improved while not being scary and new. When I opened up to the idea I found that it felt just like it did, but now was much much better. Inspire courage was the coolest cantrip on the planet. It virtually increases my fighter's threat range. But then oh no...

Day 2. I say day two cause it was 12:** something, so it was a new day. I found the +1 level to proficiency. I WAS WAITING FOR THEM TO FIX THAT IN 2ED. WHAT THE O'DOUL'S IS THIS?!?! I found a nice kind positive forum and asked kindly. They said, "Yeah. Level 13+ is kinda supposed to be broke though." My problem: I wanted them to change the game the way I wanted it changed, the way I imagined. Not everyone expected the same thing. Staying in 1st ed wasn't going to remove this problem either. And the playtest isn't over, so there is hope that Paizo does something like +1/2 level to proficiency.

I realized somewhere around the second potion about 18 ounces (YEAH I KNOW THAT'S LIKE 18 POTIONS!) the problem was my expectations. In both cases, if I just gave it a chance, I was actually at least just as impressed with 2ed.

Lastly, cause I like taking potions and working with power tools in the garage (not recommended), as long as 2ed is fairly easy to house rule, we can also change it to what we as groups want at the table. And then we'd have 1ed, 2ed, 3.5, and 5th to homebrew from. And just like the potion drinker that made the turducken, we have the ability to make something unpalatable to all but our close circle of friends.

Keep spirits up friends. I think this is going to be just fine.

1. like pathfinder 1e?

Yes and no. I hate all the inherent issues, but love the game.

2. find it troublesome?

I liked it more as time has gone on. More character options, more story options like occult classes, etc.

3. like 4th or 5th edition D&D?

They both had great parts, but fell short.

4. Which are you looking for

I'm looking for what a trusted company has to supply. It turns out they are supplying things that I really like.
I would have liked smoother level 13+ play. But the play test isn't over. And I feel like 2nd is still a better edition. And hopefully at very least I can house rule +1/2 level for proficiency.

5. game more accessible in general?

It's meh to me personally, but it will probably increase survivability. And it will mean lower chances of the person who designs for $8 an hour who comes in and really just wanted a chance to make the half-vampire, half-werewolf, half-dragon, all broken new race. As kindly as I can say it, I don't care for Amber Scott's design ideas. Though I respect her as a designer of a game I love.

6. give up on accessibility?

yes. but I don't think this is in question. I have played dungeon world, iron kingdoms, savage worlds, world of darkness (vampire, mage, hunter, innocence), call of cthulhu, cthulhu tech, gurps, AD&D, 3ed, 4ed, 5ed, star frontiers, and a dozen others.

Sorry about the list of pseudo credentials. What I'm getting at is... Of the best systems I've played 2nd edition is NOT new user friendly. This crap doesn't hold your hand.

I think the intent is to fix inherent issues in the system, not make it new player friendly. Though maybe, to some very small degree, it does that as a side effect.

7. alternative rules system?

If it was created by Paizo (a company that has earned a level of trust), then yes.

8. what would you like to see in that theoretical game?

the ability to reach about level 17 before things get crazy, but most of the 2ed changes are stuff is great. I'm actually already pretty sold on this

You really will want to try it out in action first. Two big things have changed drastically.

1. All classes are decent at at least 1 attack action per round now. Finesse weapons aren't a feat now as well as smaller variations to hit bonuses means that everyone can have at least 1 decent a attack a turn (if they put in minimal effort). You still have the option to play things like a gnome caster with cleric archetype and gnome spell ancestory. You can build something that will almost never need a weapon basically.

2. Cantrips are pretty great now. Things like the spell shield are so great it makes me feel like a caster that has power, rather than always having to decide to use some finite resource, or do nothing. 1st edition has an issue of me always having to work super hard to find my caster something non-spells to do to reserve power until I get to level 8. Then I have all the spells ever and get to enjoy it for 2 levels and then the game is over and we start a new campaign.

Lastly, you can count this as three. I don't plan ahead the best sometimes. 3. Spell slots all have a great bang to them now. Ray of enfeeblement for instance hurts even when they succeed at a save. So you don't want to be throwing magic everywhere all the time, but when you decide to use it, people at the table can appreciate it for being the game changer that the group really needed. Even the damage spells (commonly thought to be the underpowered part of casting in 1st edition) are pretty great at slamming in that extra damage. Fireball now does 6d6 from the level you start using it. And against opponents that are lower level and probably going to crit fail the saves it does double from the first level you get it. THAT IS 12D6 AT LEVEL 5. It doesn't require feats, it just takes you casting fireball on those it was designed for. It's pretty amazing!

I hope that helps to resolve your fears. I know I was pretty shaken up day 1. But my fears have started to settle.

Sadly, this is a bit of what you get with playtests. I agree it's a bit rough. And from my experience, when a playtest is rolled out like a proper book it usually means the designers have already made up their minds.

One thing that really helped me was putting one on my computer and one on xodo on my android. I kept the class information and table on xodo and chased everything on my computer. At that point it was a piece of cake. I made a level 20 in about an hour.

I hope that helps and I hope your playtesting has been as spectacular as mine has.

Tithron wrote:

Well Legendary level stuff is supposed to be epic almost to the point of silly. It seems to be designed that way. Your martials are going to be superheroes to compete with the high level casters.

That being said, you also have to take into account Skill Feats, which will only probably be 2-3 of your Skills. And higher DCs at those higher levels. Somethings have fixed DCs, and I admit that might get silly, but honestly, PF1 level 20s are silly, so I don't find this to be a huge issue. Maybe...

I see what you mean. I was really hoping that this edition would get us closer to the 15-17 levels before things really started to come off the rails. I can deal with it I guess. But if that was also adjusted I would fight people who attacked the system at that point.

Now back to happy. I really want to see more multiclassing. Regardless of how it looks right now I really like the concept, you take a feat that gives you the basics. Then you can tailor it a little more to get the right feeling. I would love to see it opened up a bit more. Mixing the shield fighter feats or something with monk would be awesome. I have always wanted a shield monk. Captain America jokes wouldn't stop me. I want it.

Alright I think this is the place I can go for this.

I really like this system. I want it to take off. Bards are like this damage increasing support monster that they really always should have been. A knife fighter is actually awesome and contends (doesn't have to be better, but it at least brings it to the table).

I'm super bummed out about +level for everything and how it seems to be making everyone good at everything and leading to the old let's wrap up the campaign at around 13th level and make new characters. Can someone (who isn't a troll, and that's why I ask here) tell me why this isn't completely terrifying?

I built a knife fighter to level 20 and found that I have a good everything. Really, I can intimidate everyone to death untrained. 16 charisma and it's my second lowest stat (which feels a bit nutty). I have a 21 to intimidate. The same is true about arcana, I have a +19 to arcana rolls. With an intelligence of 12 (my low stat). At 20th (or even close to it) how is the point not to start being dumb and having the fighter goblin administer first aid and the dwarf barbarian make a good impression? This seems like a big issue and seems like something that multiple designers gave the nod on.

I really like the idea of +1/2 level and double penalties and bonuses for proficiencies.

What am I missing? This genuinely isn't a complaint. I'm not understanding how this is getting a solid thumbs up from people. Thanks in advance. Let's make this thing work.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I figure worst case you can fix it up and throw it at them and see how they take it? I just wish they had it in a format where I could get more access to the function of it. PDF is pretty restricted in how easy it is to alter. I use my pdf reader to add highlights and things, and use a night mode that does a black and white invert, but only so much can be done.

MuddyVolcano wrote:

Thank you! That is wonderful to hear. I'm muddling with Zodo, and not much luck, there, though it was a nice idea.

Sorry it didn't work for you. I understand the want for gentler colors. My eyes don't do too hot with the bright and tiny print.

Download something like xodo pdf viewer. There is a setting in page options for night mode. Not sure how much of a pathfinder playtest question this is though. In the future I would ask on a tech forum.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Azalah wrote:

I'm certainly not a fan of the whole Ancestry mechanic in general. I feel like it's an overly complex replacement for something that should be relatively simple.

Also don't like that Barbarians STILL don't have an unarmored option. C'mon, I can't be the only one that likes bare-chested barbarian hunks.

I like being the shamanistic manly hulk barbarian sometimes yes. Full plate mail is cool sure. But some times you just have to be a sexy pile of murder.

It does not say weapon. So yes it applies to spell attacks for +1 to attack. And +1 to damage. Was it intended? Right now your GM decides. That's why it's a play test! :D

You have the fighter archetype. And it is a play test. Though I am hoping there are more options for things like that. Considering it isn't a large bonus anyway. But I'm not positive. It's still pretty early.

I really like the +1/2 level and doubling all proficiency penalties and bonuses. Or removing level bonus all together and doubling.

I've already toyed with higher level characters and it's kinda dumb. I'm pretty confident saying that it will keep Game Masters ending campaign at level 13+.

I didn't see it mentioned anywhere... but um... has anyone seen The Martian with Matt Damon. Cause the moon doesn't NORMALLY (just like the word normally in Planar Survival) have food.

Secondly, just like The Martian, this is make believe. The Martian was supposed to be somewhat believable. Pathfinder fully accepts that you can do supernatural things in game.

I'm not too bothered by this.

Battle Medic is so-so. 1st level I think it's supposed to make up for lack of other healing options. Have you played with it at later levels? 4d10+6 once per day when everyone has easily over 200 hp doesn't seem like a problem to me. Especially when fighters start increasing their proficiency with weapons, effectively also increasing their crit range. But thank heaven I don't have to slap each member of my party 48 times with a Cure light wand anymore. Spending 3 gold per hp.

Ok, gloves are off.

Tactical Tank/Healer
1st level
Human (Middle Aged) Dual Talent Alternate racial (cause I'm not playin)
+2 str +2 Dex
For a total attribute adjustment of:
Str +1 Dex +1 Con -1 Int +1 Wis +1 Cha +1
25 point buy, Str 18 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 17 Wis 8 Cha 8
Traits - Blessed Touch, Armor Expert
Favored Class bonus: Always health
Feat - Combat Reflexes
Equipment - Chain Shirt (now you can do acrobatics, no speed penalty), Lucerne Hammer (for reach damage), spiked gauntlet (for adjacent threatening)

Everything else is the same. 3rd level feat would be toughness.


To avr,
Yep, I didn't read that right. It's worse than I thought.
To Gisher,
I appreciate your tables. And you are right... they aren't familiars. They would definitely be better if they were familiars.

Maybe taking a level in cavalier to make one a mount, taking druid levels, and/or using leadership to buff the elementals abilities?


I think the best thing to do would be house rule it. Make jin get familiar bonuses. And give the sha'ir wizard specialist abilities with their occultist level counting as wizard level to determine powers, those are powers that don't disappear if the jin dies.

The Sha'ir is an archetype with some issues. The story potential seems pretty great though. So I'm determined to make it good(and if it doesn't work out quick, use the same background for a silksworn, and take the Sha'ir out back for a mercy killing). So, this is what I've started with. You are allowed to disagree, but I'm looking for a way to make the mechanics mesh better than loosing your familiar and all value with it. I've read everything I could find online and here's what I've come up with. If anyone knows of a good Sha'ir specific guide that would also be helpful. So to make it a question, what would you change?

Tactical Tank/Healer
1st level
Human Vudrani from Jalmeray (Backstory is legit)
25 point buy, Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 10
Traits - Deft Dodger +1 Reflex saves, Armor Expert -1 to armor check pen
Favored Class bonus: Always health
Feats - Toughness, Combat Reflexes
Equipment - Four Mirror armor, Lucerne Hammer (for reach damage), spiked gauntlet (for adjacent threatening)
First Jin - Earth/Conjuration
0-Acid splash (for touch damage at a distance), stabilize
1-expeditious excavation(doesn't need a failed save to be good, higher ground bonus, making someone leave the square, readied actions and attacks of opportunity to a climbing character [no dex], concealment, non-combat uses, [this spell is simply amazing]), cure light wounds (cause not everything can be expeditious excavation)
Focus power - Mind steed (flanking[that sweet 10 ft space], baby attacks, trap finding, and I guess you could technically ride it)

The entire build is for flanking and tactical prowess. Summon 1 minute monsters. Hold your earth elemental back just a little at the beginning of the day, sacrifice it for flanking bonus closer to the end of the day. However, this Sha'ir has decent skill capability. Also, if you have a ranged or spell casting ally with a good reflex ask to cast expeditious excavation at their feet. At a 13 ref save, you might just be handing them cover and concealment [yeah, that spell is amazing].

By third level, get lightning reflexes, you will have 22-36 health and decent saves. So there are decent chances your elementals will get pretty beafy and decently hard to wipeout (less fireballs of jin slaying).