Aelryinth's page

The problem in this situation is going to be you, the DM, not enforcing alignments. This is not unusual, as Alignments are hard things to interpret, and PC's can be VERY inventive on justifying their actions.

The approach here is simple.
You, Cleric, are watching a sports contest. Your team won in a fair fight which all agreed to. Suddenly, a spellcaster from the other side intervenes and kills your champion, even though nobody on his side was killed!

Tell me, Cleric, is this action Good, Neutral, or Evil?

He'll try to justify it. Wave him off and stick to the facts. Fair contest, one side lost, the other side attacked to kill.

Good, Neutral, or Evil act? Lawful or Chaotic?

Then Enforce the Alignment Change for everyone who participated in the attack.

They live in a magical world where Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are TANGIBLE things. The cleric knows it and lives it as the vessel of a god.

What they did was not good. Being Good is HARD, and they all chose the easy, non-heroic way out, except the Paladin. They didn't act like heroes, they acted like sore losers and soccer vandals.

Enforce the alignment change. Furthermore, make the reason for it known via the Paladin, word gets around that the party does not keep its word in fair dealings.

Breaking your word is a Chaotic Act. Attacking a wounded opponent who is not hostile to you to kill after a fair and honorable duel is an EVIL act.

I personally would instantly drop all those 'neutral goods' down to neutral. The cleric would lost all access to spells and atone. The tale of them ambushing and murdering the winner of an honest duel that was not fatal should get around and hamper them for years. Good churches should refuse to do business with him.

The problem here is the Paladin played their alignment, and the rest of them did not. If they don't want to acknowledge that they aren't Neutral Good anymore, you the DM should do it yourself.

But remember, alignment is not something you force on the Players, it is something they CHOOSE TO DO. What they want is to have their NG cake and eat it too, by doing non-good things and refusing to change it on their sheet.

No, that alignment is a record of what you've done, not how to play. If they don't agree with you, just ask them how Neutral Good heroic their actions are, and if they were the person whose friend was just murdered, how they'd feel.

Best of luck. Alignment issues with people who are on power trips can destroy a gaming group.

===Aelryinth

As I look at the PrC, what I really like is the idea of Intoned Recollection. As a wizard I could prepare a spell into an open arcane spell slot. I leave a slot open, and any spell (of the same level I presume) I can cast! I might know 20 level 2 spells, and if I leave a slot open I can potentially cast any of them. I don't know if that ability exists anywhere else.

Druid spells are another big point, certainly. My plan is not to take all 10 levels because I don't want to forego the extra feats/discoveries. I think I could manage 3 though. I'd still need to take scholar and spell mastery though, and have never taken either one in the past.

J

I believe the Ring of Spell Knowledge does this very thing. If you think of every Druid spell as an Extra Knowledge Feat taken, you are coming out ahead by just cherry-picking the spells you want. Sure, the wizard next to you gets Mind over Matter. You can heal yourself, make Goodberries, Barkskin up, turn your staff into a major thumping tool, and Call Lightning. What's he got that's so useful?

Seriously, being able to make arcane CLW wands for yourself, cast Barkskin on yourself instead of buying an amulet, and Cure Disease or Restore is totally worth any number of feats.

==Aelryinth

Just make the casting time component non-adjustable, a mandatory full-round action for adding one Meta, two rounds for adding two.

Now the feat is about casting spells slowly for maximal effect, with a playful math aspect to it as you build up your power and let loose.

If no Quicken is allowed, it's now a time vs power argument, not a tossing dice and slowing the game down argument.

==Aelryinth

I'd simply make Sacred Geometry a mandatory full-round action for adding one metamagic, and two full round actions for two metamagics.

Then it becomes a mindset of trading your time against maximizing the usage of every spell you cast, as opposed to free metas on every spell for basically no cost.

===Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

You should just stick with a Sage Sorcerer (the Arcane Bloodline variant).

You get Intelligence as your prime Stat, so you're not low on Skill Points.

You get an Arcane Bond, so you can enchant your own Ring immediately to the effect you want.

Unfortunately no. Arcane bond is replaced by arcane bolt for the Sage sorcerer.

Whoops, that's right.

Ring of Spell Knowledge: Get a spellbook, fetch a Spell Known as you need, as many times a day as you need, up to the spell level of the Ring.

Versatile Spontaneity: Turns you into a Prepared Spellcaster. You can now use Pearls for your Memorized SPells, and even a Ring of Wizardry. Also, your spellbook is now a resource for your Arcane Bond and Mnemonic Investment.

Extra Spell Known: Next Bloodline Spell. Gets you your Bloodline spell two levels early, gets refunded at the appropriate level, use it for the same thing again.

Extend Spell is far more useful to a Sorcerer than Still and Silent, which are very situational.

Ask your DM if Pages of SPell Knowledge for Cantrips are okay. They'd be 250 gp each. No reason to waste FC points on them.

Without Fixed bonuses to it and a strong Metamagic like maximize, Spell Perfection is sort of wasted. You probably want to swap out your TK/throwing Sage power for Power in the Blood (+1/die of Bloodline/Spell Focus spells) and take Spell Focus Evocation sooner.

(yes, I realize this is years late, but just in case someone reads it for a build! )

You should just stick with a Sage Sorcerer (the Arcane Bloodline variant).

You get Intelligence as your prime Stat, so you're not low on Skill Points.

You get an Arcane Bond, so you can enchant your own Ring immediately to the effect you want.

You get the extra spells at higher levels.

Spend your Favored Class points on Extra Spell Known. Do NOT spend your Feats on those without REALLY good reasons. Take the Human Feat for extra Favored Class points for more HP to up your toughness.

Most importantly, get Pages of Spell Knowledge for minor spells you don't use a lot. They cost exactly the same as a Pearl of Power.

While it's called a Ring of Wizardry, the text says 'arcane spellcasters'. Doubling your spells Castable per day is pretty sweet. It does not say 'prepared arcane casters!'

Lastly, there are some specific items you should use:

Versatile Spontaneity (Feat)

You made a good name for yourself in the Pathfinder Society in part because you knew how to prepare for the challenges before you, even if your natural magical abilities lend themselves less to preparation and more to spontaneity.

Prerequisites: Int 13 or Wis 13 (see Special), ability to spontaneously cast 2nd-level spells.

Benefit: When you regain spell slots at the start of the day, you may opt to prepare one spell you don’t know in place of a daily spell slot 1 level higher than the prepared spell’s level. To do so, you must have access to the selected spell on a scroll or in a spellbook, and the spell must be on your spell list (even if it is not one of your spells known). This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell. You can cast the selected spell a single time, expending the spell slot as though it were a known spell being cast by you. Preparing a spell in this manner expends a scroll but not a spellbook. A spell prepared in this way is considered its actual level rather than the level of the spell slot expended. You can apply metamagic feats to the spell as normal, as long as the spell’s actual level plus the increases from metamagic feats is 1 level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. For example, a 12th-level sorcerer with this feat, a scroll of fireball, and the Empower Spell metamagic feat could prepare an empowered fireball spell in her 6th-level spell slot.

Special: If you spontaneously cast arcane spells, you must have an Intelligence score of at least 13 to take this feat. If you spontaneously cast divine spells, you must have a Wisdom score of at least 13 to take this feat. If you have both arcane and divine spellcasting classes, you can use this feat to prepare a spell using a given class’s spell slot as long as you meet the associated ability score prerequisite.

(Summary: Sorcs can get spellbooks and prep spells for all that wizardly downtime flexibility).

------------

+ Mnemonic Vestment
Vestment, Mnemonic

Aura strong transmutation; CL 17th
Slot body; Price 5,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION
The surface of this delicate-looking blue silk robe is adorned with tiny embossed runes across its entire surface.

If the wearer is a spontaneous caster, once per day she may use a spell slot to cast a spell from a written source (such as a scroll or spellbook) as if she knew that spell. The spell must be on her spell list, the same spell level or lower than the expended spell slot, and the same type of spell (arcane or divine) as the spell slot expended.

The caster must also understand the written source (such as using Decipher Script (Editor’s Note: This should probably be Spellcraft.) read magic) and be carrying it. Activating the robe is not an action, but casting the spell otherwise works as normal, including casting time, providing components or foci, and so on. Using a mnemonic vestment’s properties does not consume the written source.

(summary: you turn your scroll or spellbook collection into an instantly-accessible resource for key spells... just like a Wizard).

----------------

Robe of Arcane Heritage

Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Description
These elegant, dark purple robes are usually decorated with gold stitching suggesting a particular sorcerer bloodline, though some might indicate a family tree. When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.

Construction Requirements
Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp

(For the Arcane Bloodline, that means you access those extra Spells Known quicker, among other things).

==========
And the best of them all...

Ring of Spell Knowledge

Aura moderate or strong (no school); CL 7th
Slot ring; Price 1,500 gp (Type I), 6,000 gp (Type II), 13,500 gp (Type III), 24,000 gp (Type IV); Weight —

Description
This ring comes in four types: ring of spell knowledge I, ring of spell knowledge II, ring of spell knowledge III, and ring of spell knowledge IV. All of them are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters.

Through study, the wearer can gain the knowledge of a single spell in addition to those allotted by her class and level. A ring of spell knowledge I can hold 1st-level spells only, a ring of spell knowledge II 1st- or 2nd-level spells, a ring of spell knowledge III spells of 3rd level or lower, and a ring of spell knowledge IV up to 4th-level spells.

A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’ spell list.

Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer’s class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

Construction Requirements
Forge Ring, creator must be able to cast spells of the spell level to be granted; Cost 750 gp (Type I), 3,000 gp (Type II), 6,750 (Type III), 12,000 gp (Type IV).

Summary: Let me point out a couple things: One, You can see someone cast a spell you don't know and LEARN IT. Then copy it to a spellbook. You're a spell thief!
Two, You can learn Arcane SPells. So, Witch Healing spells are on the menu, as are Witch List spells. End of the day and you've got level three spells left? Bardic Cure Moderate wounds all around. You can eventually access most of the low-level Healing spells through the Witch List, and cherry-pick the Bard list.
Three, there's no limit on how many times a day you can use it. So you can swap between spells within literally seconds, something no wizard can do. You have instant access to your entire low-level spell library AND tons of spell slots to cast them with! Your only limit is your Spellcraft check!

===========
Synergies:

Once you have Versatile Spontaneity, you're a Prepared Caster. Even if a Ring of Wizardry or Pearl of Power won't work for you normally... it will for those Prepared Spells! Stock up, just like a wizard!

Literally nobody will be able to tell you aren't a Wizard, as with literally seconds of study you can learn any arcane spell of the appropriate level, Cast it, then 'learn' another one, via the Ring of Spell Knowledge.

As a prepared Caster, your entire spellbook is your spells known for the Mnemonic Vest and the 1/day 'cast spell' power of your Arcane Bond.

The Mnemonic Vest and Arcane Bond power are essentially the same thing, except now you get two per day, twice that of a Wizard.

Lastly, Extra Spell Known, the Feat, should only be 'my Next Bloodline spell.' This should automatically get you your Bloodline Spell as soon as you can Cast spells of that level (levels 3,5,7, etc), which means you get at least one spell at the same time as a Wizard. Since you always get them two levels late normally, the Feat should update to the next spell at the appropriate time.

Clear it with your DM, but it should be a viable use of the Feat, ie. you get the Feat back once you get the spell normally, and just use it for the same purpose. Bloodline spells aren't the best, but you'll have SOMETHING to cast from that level.

Atarlost wrote:

The fundamental problem is "don't compare new items to old items that are themselves mispriced."

The AMF is still overpriced by a factor of at least 2 (arguably 4 because weapons are slotless and amulets aren't) for unarmed strikes.

Brawling armor's fair price is somewhere between 4k and 8k flat. As a bonus equivalent enchantment a +2 might have been excused, but a +3 is absolutely ridiculous. Even a +1 equivalent bonus becomes overpriced when you start enhancing your armor for the purpose of keeping you from getting killed.

In fairness the comparison for how much brawling should cost was probably measured against the gloves of dueling of course it does still ignore the fact that you need to buy armor upgrades afterwards if you intend to not die which makes it notably worse and as such pretty much unusable to anyone who has both of those as an option.

Fallacious. It stacks with the gloves, it's an untyped bonus. It's worth more then the gloves...no requirement on class or anything for a similar benefit. Just have to wear the armor. The Gloves would include the 30% discount for only working for people with Weapon Mastery, I'd think.

==Aelryinth

I think it's best to consider the "24 hours" as a non-consecutive neccessary period of attunement.

Nobody thinks you wear your bejeweled Headband of +Int or mighty Girdle of Raise My Physical Stats to bed, but you still get to keep the permanent skills and effective stat buff to qualify for feats.

So, it's likely that after wearing the shirt for a time period equal to 24 hours, your attunement 'shifts' to the shirt, and you remain attuned to it until you finish a 24 hour period with ANOTHER shirt, at which time it shifts again.

i.e. once you've worn the shirt for 24 hours, you can take it off and put it back on again without a problem. You just can't wear any OTHER magic shirt effectively while you do so, or you disrupt your link with the first one.

Workable?

==Aelryinth

Two differences: First was their ability scores. I don't see them as particularly intelligent or dextrous. Wolves have the reputation of being cunning, which is Wis, and tough, which is con. So, I'd go +2 Wis and +2 Con, -2 Cha before anything. Domesticated archetype, just swap wis and cha bonuses.

Second, they should be humanoid (Lupine) just like catfolk and ratfolk are. They aren't gnolls. vast majority of monstrous humanoids have racial hit die, and I think you want this to be a PC race.

I probably just missed it, but did they have a racial favored class? Probably Ranger or Hunter.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

+Urban Ranger/6 with IUS and FE: Humanx2, no spells variant for more feats from the archery chain.

Go back to 1e dual-class rules and drop some expert/rogue levels in for more fun.

No rules in game for being a multi-millionaire, tho.

===Aelryinth

Multi-Billionaire. Which, at least in the superhero world, is apparently the best super power ever. (Green Arrow, Batman, Tony Stark, etc.) It makes you wonder why Bill Gates is not out fighting crime.

I didn't watch this season, but last season he lost most of his fortune and his company to Ray Palmer. Did he get it back? And I didn't think he was a multi-billionaire, just a single.

Heh.

==Aelryinth

What about the Goodly Gods of Warhammer Fantasy?

There's a whole one...the goddess of healing, who was actually originally elven, I believe, and whom the human church of sigmar is trying to replace with a pet saint.

The rest are basically LN or TN to one degree of extremism or another.

==Aelryinth

Your link to your lupine is not working.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

Unfettered shield is the feat that allows you to wear a buckler while doing anything else.

You mean Unhindering Shield.

(whistles)

Aelryinth wrote:

Meh, he's using not just a shield, but a TOWER SHIELD.

-2 isn't that much of a penalty when talking using CMB, because bonuses to CMB are easier than melee. Sunder allows damage to them when CMB, so good times.

AC 34 without Jingasa, AC 32 with just a shield. So we are back to average monster needs a 3 to hit.

What is an Unfettered Shield?

Unfettered shield is the feat that allows you to wear a buckler while doing anything else.

Yes, for the price of 1-2 feats, you get shield AC and whatever superior fighting style you want. No penalties. If you have armor training (i.e. fighter), you can get it as soon as level 4.

==Aelryinth

And was the Jingasa the guilties thing for that AC? because without it AC 34 is still beyond the number you are giving.

Meh, he's using not just a shield, but a TOWER SHIELD.

reduce that 34 to a 28. How many serious shield users are there? Although Unfettered shield will definitely see the buckler users going up.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

==Aelryinth

It's not the logic, I just fail too see how it can be OP if anyone (well, almost) can get access to it.

Investing in UMD for a martial class it's rarely a downside, UMD has to be one of the most powerful skills ever.
And honestly, what else is the BSF gonna get? Swim? Touch of the Sea. Climb? Spider Climb, Levitate, Fly.

There aren't really many skills useful for the figher. If he wants a really high Will Save he needs at least CHA13 for Improved Bravery or he can't chose an Archetype that gives up weapon training to take Armed Bravery.

My point is, that in this case not spell list classes have to pay more to use the item that spell list classes can get access to in form of Wands, for a cheaper way.
Item that only last 1 minutes per day, while Wands guy can use it up to 50 times.

If you think the item is broken, maybe the problem is not the item, but the spell it's emulating.

UMD definitely IS a powerful skill. However, it is not a cheap skill, esp for martials, and most esp for fighters.

The investment of skill ranks, trait and probably skill focus, + possible Cha, is a Hefty investment. On top of that, you now have to invest gold in magic items trying to replicate what a caster is doing for free.

You are also comparing the price of the single cheapest consumable you can use, a wand, against a permanent item, and ignoring how long it's going to take you to use that wand successfully every time.

The OLD item is too cheap for what it did. That is without ANY doubt. It's why PFS banned it, it was that blatant.

No benefit or effect looks pricey all by itself. But when you start accumulating lots of little bonuses, they suddenly become big bonuses.

The NEW item? Might be overpriced. I'm not commenting on that. If a permanent item is priced at 12k, it should be in the 2-3k range. But just based on other items, the old item should have been 18-19k, by my estimations. 3-4k is actually right on line.

As someone pointed out, the old Bracer was basically equal to Greater Bracers for an archery. So, are you going to pay 4k and Weapon Spec, or 25k and Improved Critical to basically get the same effect? And at a minimum of 4 levels sooner, ignoring gold reqs.

That's what you have to look at.

Small little bonuses all add up. Some of those you have to keep a very close eye on for balance purposes.

Looking at them by themselves? No, not an issue. Stick them in the greater picture and weigh them against other options? Starts to show.

==Aelryinth

So, because a Caster can use Greater Magic Weapon, +enhancements to extra weapons you might need to carry should cost nothing. Because that looks like what you are saying.

Got ya.

Because barbs, rangers and paladins can use their class combat bonuses with any weapon, the fact fighters are restricted to just one weapon is meaningless. Like that time I had to choose between a mace of disruption or a sun sword.

Got ya.

Investing scarce skill points, taking a trait to make UMD a class skill, and investing build points in Cha and/or a skill focus feat so at level 10 you can always get a buff off if you're given time to buff in a fight so you can use a custom wand to give you a benefit when you'd probably want to use that time to give you a major benefit or to attack (and which isn't available if you are under attack) is Cheap to you.

Got ya.

Well, I guess we just play different games. You consider the cost to go around the item to be cheap, and I don't.

==Aelryinth

Quote:

Or, to put it another way : Feat: 2500. x Long bow, short bow, composite short bow, pellet bow, composite long bow, Great Bow, crossbow, H crossbow, hand crossbow. Looks like x9 to me.

It's a slightly disingenuous position. While technically correct, having it work with all weapons has increasingly diminishing returns for any given character.

I mean, would you say a theoretical pre-errata Bracers of Falcon's Aim that only worked with composite longbows would be balanced? After all, +1 to attack is kind of like a free weapon focus, and having it apply to all weapons means it's Feat x 65 or something. So the bracers should cost about 200k to compensate for the over 70 bonus feats it gives you. Limiting it to only composite longbows would effectively make it about a hundred times weaker, right?

But that's not how that works.

He's saying that because I use a bow, the fact it works for crossbows is meaningless and shouldn't be included in the price, and priced it at one feat.

Man, I wish AWT feats used that logic.

I turned his logic back around on him, to show it was the same as having nine feats, and how ridiculous that was.

Just comparing it to the gloves is far more proper.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

It's also a weapon enhancement, except it's stronger then a weapon enhancement.

It works on all ranged attacks, and it even affects your Crit multiplier. It is indirect, so it stacks on top of a +10 weapon, unlike, say, Deliquescent Gloves, which ALSO add a +1 effect to your weapons.

Or, to put it another way : Feat: 2500. x Long bow, short bow, composite short bow, pellet bow, composite long bow, Great Bow, crossbow, H crossbow, hand crossbow. Looks like x9 to me. Or do you think a Bracers of the Archer granting proficiency in all bows is MORE valuable then granting a...

Why is that important? How many weapons it affect. If you're an archer, you're just using 1 bow. I don't get it.

Even if affects all weapon, you're just gonna have 1 bow that it's enchanted. Losing your bow but getting another +1 to another is good, but no way overpowered nor broken.

The slots thing shouldn't matter, they're replicating a spell effect. A caster with access to this spell gets this spell for 750 for free, while a martial with no spell list gets screwed.

YOu're using bad logic again.

A caster gets true strike for free, so having a sword with continuous true strike should be cheap, right?

Or are you trying to tell me that an item which gives you Rapid Fire with a Short Bow is worthless because you use a longbow, and should be priced accordingly? That a feat which applied Improved Critical to all bows and crossbows you wield is equal to a feat which just does it for a short bow?

Because the former exists as TWO Advanced Weapon Training feats...one each for the Bow and Crossbow group. i.e. you also need to be a fighter to get them! ANd you STILL need the original iMproved critical feat...so technically, THREE feats and you must be a fighter!

So, your pricing logic is off. The fact you are 'only going to use one bow' in no way obviates the fact that this works for all bows and crossbows. That's like saying this magical mace should be almost free since I'll never use it since I'm a swordsman, you should give it to me for nothing. The logic just doesn't track.

==Aelryinth

oh, affiliate doesn't show on the unofficial site, either.I'm using the term because I can't think of a better one.

IF you want to read it on Paizo's SRD site, it's right here:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/magicIt emCreation.html#altering-existing-items

The d20 site is just a copy/paste of the official SRD, under Altering Existing Items. I just clipped some relevant language.

(wags finger) d20 does a very good job keeping up to date on the SRD. I see what you were trying to do there! :)

==Aelryinth

Kill a thousand zombies, watch them amalgamate into a Flesh Colossus from the old Epic rules...PF'd and updated, of course.

==Aelryinth

Dracoknight wrote:

For those who are happy about having Jingasa gone i just have to ask... honestly what other item is worth tossing your cash on to even have in the helmet slot that isnt a niche pick?

Kinda missing the point. The point is that AC 36 is too high, so knocking it back down to AC 34 by changing the Jingasa to no longer be luck bonus to AC.

As for your question, I replaced the hat with my "preferred" item that I had to choose to skip because a "required" item was in that slot. For my current melee character who is diplomatic, that item is the Circlet of Persuasion.

Just use the buffering hat, myself. That 'save me from dying cause the orc got lucky' effect is a steal for 2k.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

I'm not sure where they moved the breakdown of it to, they actually had a list of items/slots and the powers affiliated with them.

But as I posted earlier, you can see it in action with Boots of Teleportation and the Helm of teleportation...the Helm is 50% more money for the exact same thing.

Ditto elemental resistances that you can buy for your armor/shield...they are 50% more then getting them on a ring.

The rule that they 'exist' is here:
++++++++++++++++++++
Some Abilities Are Assigned to Certain Slots: Some of the magic items in the standard rules are deliberately assigned to specific magic item slots for balance purposes, so that you have to make hard choices about what items to wear. In particular, the magic belts and circlets that give enhancement bonuses to ability scores are in this category—characters who want to enhance multiple physical or mental ability scores must pay extra for combination items like a belt of physical might or headband of mental prowess.

If there is a trend of all items of a particular type using a particular slot (such as items that grant physical ability score bonuses being belts or items that grant movement bonuses being boots), GMs should be hesitant to allow you to move those abilities to other slots; otherwise, they ignore these deliberate restrictions by cheaply spreading out these items over unused slots.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
but I don't know where the breakdown is now. Gloves were always associated with Dexterity, thief skills, and the like, etc. Boots anything to do with travel, and so on. Rings were always affiliated with anything, that's why it was level 12 to make one...you could stick anything on a Ring.

And we're talking about a +1 bonus, so 500 gp is all I'm going to give on that! ;)

==Aelryinth

I'm pretty sure you're holding on to 3.5 text that did not make the transition to pathfinder. There's no sure rule as slot affiliation in PF.

Just quoted it off the SRD for magic items. Pretty sure it was in the magic item book, and it's definitely still used in pricing abilities, as the helm/boots fo teleportation illustrate, and the pricing between elemental resistances on armor/rings. They actually adjusted the Helm UP to precisely +50% over the boots to follow the affiliated slot guidelines. There's a reason they use them.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

+3 Competence bonus on Percept Checks, 900 gp.

+1 Competence bonus on all ranged attacks. 2500 gp, based on dusty rose prism ioun stone? Maybe 2k gp, since restricted to missile weapons?
keen on all bows and crossbows, stacking with weapon enhancements...?? 10k? 20k?

Unaffiliated slot for all of this? x 1.5, x2?

There's no way you can justify the Bracers of Falcon's Aim being the price they were. You have to ignore ALL the pricing guidelines and go right to the dumbest one to get the price they were at.

==Aelryinth

I don't get the pricing much

Effortless Lace gives you Weapon Finesse with only 1 handed piercing weapons, for only 2500GP. That's a feat, for 2500 Gold. Yeah, Aspect of the Falcon gives this to all bows, but as you can lose 1 weapon, you can lose the bracers, so losing the item is not really a point.
They both do the same type of damage, only difference is that Arches can switch to other type of arrows.
But according to me, you can't charge more than 8k for this item pre errata.

+3 Perception 900
+1 Competence Bonus 2000
Feat 2500

5400 is my total.
There's a guideline in there. It doesn't matter what is the power of the feat, took me 5 minutes to get an item with 2500 as a baseline price.

Don't want to look at it as a feat? Then look it as Keen, it's only worth a +1, though in this case it could be any number, depending on your enhancement.

It's also a weapon enhancement, except it's stronger then a weapon enhancement.

It works on all ranged attacks, and it even affects your Crit multiplier. It is indirect, so it stacks on top of a +10 weapon, unlike, say, Deliquescent Gloves, which ALSO add a +1 effect to your weapons.

Or, to put it another way : Feat: 2500. x Long bow, short bow, composite short bow, pellet bow, composite long bow, Great Bow, crossbow, H crossbow, hand crossbow. Looks like x9 to me. Or do you think a Bracers of the Archer granting proficiency in all bows is MORE valuable then granting a virtual Keen, an effect you can't even put on a bow, on all your bows and crossbows?

And you're also leaving out secondary and non-affiliated slot pricing, which are both real concerns for the dev team, and cited specifically in the rules. i.e. you want to put an effect in a seldom used slot, raise the price to balance things out, there's a reason they make you make choices about these things.

Effortless Lace? That works on ONE WEAPON, ever. The feat works on ALL weapons. Of course it's cheaper. Now, if effortless Lace was a bracelet that wrapped around your wrist, and allowed all its effects with any weapon you wielded, we'd have a comparison to what the bracers do.

==Aelryinth

I also am happy it's removed (Jingasa), it was an item that everyone with 20 or more AC had to buy (required purchase.)

It hurt because it worked on the high AC folks.
** spoiler omitted **

From a design point of view, if they want to keep a luck bonus AC item in the game, it needs to conflict with armor. So it needs to use that slot.

Gotta ask, why do you have two armor bonuses in there?

Is that +2 Darkwood full plate supposed to be a Tower Shield? :)

And anyone who uses a Tower shield is going to be nigh ineffectual in an actual fight.

---------
As for the AC...hey, people, the best way to get a high AC has always been to grab as many bonuses as possible, rather then shoot a single bonus to the moon.

Being able to add +2 Luck AC for 5k and a trait is BELOW dirt cheap.

Seriously, just make yourself a +5 DISMAL Ring of Protection. Deflection, Insight, Sacred, Morale and Luck, +1 each. 2k, 2.5k, 2.5k, 2,5k, 2.5k.

Even after the +50% pricing for secondary effects, that's 2.5k +3.75k +3.75k +3.75k, +3k, a whopping 16.75k for the exact same protective effect on your AC as a +5 Ring of Deflection. For less then a third of the price. It's why you grab the Ioun stones for +1 Competence and Insight to AC...they are cheap ways to grant AC.

A +2 DISMAL Ring is 8k/10/10/10/10k, or rather, 10K +12+15+15+15, or 67k for a +10 bonus to your AC and TOuch AC.

The more low bonuses you can add to your AC that stack, the more costs go down and the more your AC goes up.

==Aelryinth

Sundakan wrote:

All this talk about Fate's Favored and nobody stopped to think that maybe it's the trait that's the problem?

"10k is too cheap for the Jingasa because a trait can double its AC bonus!"

Lolwut?

I think it's safe to say EVERYONE knows that's the problem.

Fate's Favored is worth a 40-50k item by itself.

The Jingasa is worth 10-15k BY ITSELF in its original form, just based on similar items. Fate's just made it worse.

==Aelryinth

Oh, Lordy, jawa, don't tell them FF is gonna get nerfed. Do you know how much gnashing of teeth is going to go on for PFS when they do that?

Just because it's worth a 40-50k magic item?

==Aelryinth

Stuff

(sighs)

Competence to skill +3, 900 gp.
+1 Comp to Hit = Pale green cracked ioun stone, 1/2 = 2k.
Stacking +crit range OR + Crit mod - 10 to 20k effect.

Multiply for unaffiliated slot, x 1.5 or x2. Comp and +1 TH are secondary effects, so also x1.5.

Value - Even if we start at 10k, the two secondary effects are going to be 2900 x 1.5 for secondaries, which puts us about 14,400 gp.

Then we have to figure that competence bonuses, TH bonuses and critical effects are weapon effects, not associated with bracers, and so price increase. Easy 20k. Which puts it in Greater Bracers of Archery area, which is about right.

The power of the bracers is not that people can take Keen or Improved Critical, it's that they DO NOT HAVE TO, a point you seem to be missing. THey can buy away the feat or the multiplier (a unique effect!), and it stacks with their +10 weapon.

So, no, your reasoning is not good by any stretch of the imagination. It's about having to make a choice with your money between equally good options at that level, not about having a no-brainer to take the Bracers because it's that much better. I really don't believe you tried to make a magic item pricing argument 'because then they can't afford it until level 8!'

And that argument about having to take Fate's Favored and then "WAIT" for the benefit?! wth was that? Fate's Favored works for you at level 1 if you are a half-orc, and 2 if you are an archeologist, and just gets better with time.
And you have heard of the Extra Traits feat, right? Take that feat...+1 to all saves, TH, dmg, AC, and skill/ability checks. Oh, and you get ANOTHER trait, on top of it. At anytime you choose to take it.
WTH, man?

Or, to put it another way:
+3 bonus Comp to Percept, as Eyes of Eagle, non-eye slot x 1.5 - 1350 gp.
+1 TH missiles, as Cracked Pale Green Ioun stone, half price, non-affiliated slot x 1.5- 3000 gp.
Keen/Improved Mod, as +1 Enhancement non-weapon = Deliquescent Gloves, non-affiliated slot - 12k.

Lesser abilities x 1.5 as secondary abilities. 2k and 4500 gp.

Final price, 18,500 gp or so. Based on current magic items.

==Aelryinth

I'm not sure where they moved the breakdown of it to, they actually had a list of items/slots and the powers affiliated with them.

But as I posted earlier, you can see it in action with Boots of Teleportation and the Helm of teleportation...the Helm is 50% more money for the exact same thing.

Ditto elemental resistances that you can buy for your armor/shield...they are 50% more then getting them on a ring.

The rule that they 'exist' is here:
++++++++++++++++++++
Some Abilities Are Assigned to Certain Slots: Some of the magic items in the standard rules are deliberately assigned to specific magic item slots for balance purposes, so that you have to make hard choices about what items to wear. In particular, the magic belts and circlets that give enhancement bonuses to ability scores are in this category—characters who want to enhance multiple physical or mental ability scores must pay extra for combination items like a belt of physical might or headband of mental prowess.

If there is a trend of all items of a particular type using a particular slot (such as items that grant physical ability score bonuses being belts or items that grant movement bonuses being boots), GMs should be hesitant to allow you to move those abilities to other slots; otherwise, they ignore these deliberate restrictions by cheaply spreading out these items over unused slots.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
but I don't know where the breakdown is now. Gloves were always associated with Dexterity, thief skills, and the like, etc. Boots anything to do with travel, and so on. Rings were always affiliated with anything, that's why it was level 12 to make one...you could stick anything on a Ring.

And we're talking about a +1 bonus, so 500 gp is all I'm going to give on that! ;)

==Aelryinth

Meh, just be a switch hitter. Greatsword and longbows. Easy to play and effective.

==Aelryinth

One minor quibble...there's no spell or feat that adds a +1 Critical multiplier to ANYTHING until you get to the Fighter capstone.
Unless you include an Exotic Weapon Proficency, of course (longsword/battle-axe to Falcata)

==Aelryinth

I would've said play the paladin iconic, and tell her to be the hero of the group.

But as far as introducing multiple mechanics, hunter or ranger are likely the best, and i don't think she wants to play Harsk.

==Aelryinth

Alex Trebek's Stunt Double wrote:

And what is done with that uniqueness and importance? All the power without the responsibility. They don't want to be "just the party scroll reader" yet when a level 1 wizard NPC is introduced precisely to do that job who is the first and loudest to object that NPCs not be in the group? Everything has to revolve around them.

The tyranny of casters must end!

I'm allowing personal spells in potions and I'm dropping a lot of them and no one has any good reason why I shouldn't houserule that. Certainly not the special snowflake who says they should be the one handling buffs... when they can't or won't.

Wouldn't it be better to lower the cost of Potions instead of allowing personal spells?

Everyone using Potions of Shield just forces you to increase the Attack of monsters to compete with your player's AC. Which in turn just makes personal spells obsolete (at least the lower level ones).

PC's who can't cast having access to personal spells...50 gp.

Casters never having to memorize personal spells again...priceless.

Hooray for balance!

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

+3 Competence bonus on Percept Checks, 900 gp.

+1 Competence bonus on all ranged attacks. 2500 gp, based on dusty rose prism ioun stone? Maybe 2k gp, since restricted to missile weapons?
keen on all bows and crossbows, stacking with weapon enhancements...?? 10k? 20k?

Unaffiliated slot for all of this? x 1.5, x2?

There's no way you can justify the Bracers of Falcon's Aim being the price they were. You have to ignore ALL the pricing guidelines and go right to the dumbest one to get the price they were at.

==Aelryinth

Sorry for being overbearing with the corrections, it's just that I've discussed the pricing of Bracers of Falcon's Aim/Archery alot the last two days.

A +1 competence bonus to hit has a price of 2000 gp.

Okay, so you based it on the pale green cracked instead of the dusty rose. Difference 500 gp.

Perfectly fine going along with that.

Still doesn't explain a 4k price for all of that. The stacking Keen/Crit mod+ effect ALONE is worth at least 10k. Add on the unaffiliated slot, and you're at 20k EASY.

More amusing, Fortune's Favored can grant a STACKING +1 Luck bonus on AC, saves, skill checks, ability checks, to hit and to damage (and formerly to AC). A luck bonus is priced like an insight bonus, so the dusty rose is a good guideline, but it doesn't affect damage rolls. It modifies one more thing the luckstone does (attack rolls) which is priced at 20k. So, another 10k for that +1 damage? Or just 5k? With AC on top, you're talking another 5-10k.

That means the trait is worth the same as a probably 35-40k magic item, 40-50k with AC included.

That's one hell of half a feat.

==Aelryinth

@Aelryinth

Just one thing you might want to edit in your previous post.

Deflection bonus to AC is actually cheaper than Luck.

Deflection: 2000 * X^2

Luck: 2500 * X^2

whoops, you are right. But a difference of 500-750 gp isn't going to change the fact the Jingasa was extremely underpriced just with its base abilities. That crit and sneak attack negation ability is extremely potent, and much better then the 2k helm slot item that tries to do the same thing, and still makes you eat the damage, even if it doesn't kill you.

==Aelryinth

Trogdar wrote:

Wonderstell wrote:

Alex Trebek's Stunt Double wrote:

Actually, were they really too

Yes. The current version is overpriced. But maybe the Bracers of Falcon's Aim never should have existed at all.

Maybe there shouldn't be any wondrous items which replicate spell effects. That's what wands and scrolls are for.

Are you friggin kidding me? You want to bar ALL access to magic by non casters!? That's just hilariously bad.

Yeah, I meant spells like Mage Armor, Shield of Faith, Nereid's Grace, which just grant bonuses to stats. I'm editing my previous post.

Well, by Double's calculations, I should be able to make a Shield of Faith ring as a permanent item, and get +2 Deflection for 2000 gp, not the 8k price of an actual ring, right? Or use Nereid's Grace to get +3 to +6 for the same price, right?

Tch.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

Alex, the Jingasa is an unaffiliated slot for AC bonuses. The price would be doubled.

The Jingasa at 5k giving both the +1 Luck Bonus AND the crit negation is underpriced by the very rules. Given the example of the Buffering Cap being 2000 gp and not even NEGATING the crit, the Jingasa should have been an absolute minimum of 9-10k gp.

The artificial inflation of the Luck Bonus with cheap traits is what prodded the change to the deflection bonus. They could probably have made it a competence or insight bonus, but eh.

==Aelryinth

If by "unaffiliated" you mean "slotless," then that's clearly incorrect.

If by "unaffiliated" you mean "shouldn't grant AC," then a citation from the book would be needed. Even without the book citation, I will go ahead and say that there are precedents, both historical and literary, that would disagree with your claim of a helm being "unaffiliated" with protecting you, especially if we want to consider what a helmet designed for war is supposed to do (though as of recent history, isn't particularly helpful).

And guess what, the artificial inflation applies to more than just the Jingasa, why not change them to a different bonus type too?

I said unaffiliated, and meant unaffiliated.

Rings are affiliated with all effects...you can stuff any spell effect on a ring and it will be the minimum price.

Look at the elemental resistance things for armor. Compare the price to a ring. They are unaffiliated effects, and they cost more.

The Helm slot is not affiliated with Luck or Deflection bonuses to AC.

Look at the Helm of teleportation. Then look at boots of teleportation. They do the exact same thing, and the helm costs 50% more, because boots are affiliated with movement slots, and Helms are not.

So, the 10-11k price range is not bogus, it's an estimate based on existing magic items.

Critical deflection is an armor-slot affiliated item, not a helm item. So we know the price is going to be higher there.
The ability of the Jingasa is MUCh more powerful then the Buffering Hat. The Buffering Hat makes you still eat the crit damage, and doesn't do anything for sneak attacks. Both work once a day.

So, with a Luck bonus in an unaffiliated slot, we're looking at either 3750 or 5000, depending on how unaffiliated they rule it.
The crit negation ability is easily twice as strong as the buffering hat, so a base of 4k at the very least for a reusable, strong ability like this. This is going to be increased 50% for being on an unaffiliated slot.

So, a minimum of 9-10k, and probably 11k would be my estimate of its value, compared to other items. The fact you now can't get a Luck bonus to AC anywhere else is completely superfluous. Deflection bonuses are priced the same as Luck bonuses, so the price is still accurate if the only thing changed was the deflection bonus.

Oh, Double, your tone aside, Fortune's Favored is more powerful then almost any general feat you can take, simply because it adds bonuses to hit, damage, skill checks, and saving throws, all by itself, with only a small amount of investment.
Traits are supposed to be HALF the power of a feat, not twice or more. There's a Halfling only worshipper of a specific god feat which I think grants +1 Luck to all saves.. Fortune's Favored does that and more besides.

it's overpowered, everyone knows it, that's why they pick it. You can call the rest garbage, but what they are is generally on the same level. Fortune's Favored should never have been a trait at all.

The Bracers of Falcon's Aim have been known to be underpriced for YEARS. All you had to do was look at Bracers of Archery, which is Rule#1, similar items, to realize how much better it was, and for less cost. Someone looked at the table and used level 1 spell to permanent effect for the pricing, and completely ignored existing items.
Now, they idea they maybe should have repriced bracers of archery, too, is a different argument.
As for using UMD and wands...that's the double whammy of buff time and massive investment in UMD to be able to do this. That's neither cheap nor easy. The short buff duration of the wands is just going to make it annoying, and you won't have time to do so once combat starts.
Now, I think they should have increased the price rather then nerfing the effect, but I expect that people loving the underpriced item would have protested regardless.

==Aelryinth

A wizard's spellbook can hold any and every spell he can scribe into it, including niche spells with limited, specific uses; like, say, Water-breathing, Fabricate, Guards and Wards, and so forth. Downtime spells, especially, are the Wizard's forte.

A Sorceror has his Spells Known, and that's it. SO he plans a lot of general use spells, but can't devote spells to niche events that may never or only rarely happen, and devoting slots for downtime use is difficult (like Fabricate).

Planned Spontaneity and Split Slot are there to give more options to the wizard. The first takes one slot, and lets you make a choice of two spells in that slot - so, Fireball OR Lightning bolt, but not both.

The second sacrifices a high level spell for two more lower level spells.

Fast Study lets you leave spell slots empty and fill them very quickly when needed. However, it is useless in combat, it just shortens the normal ten minutes required down to 1.

Bonded Object lets you pull any spell out of your spellbook once a day on demand. This is VERY useful...but basically the same as a Mnemonic Vestment.

Greater Spell Spec lets you take one spell and sacrifice other spells in memory to cast that one spell. So, you can spam one spell at the cost of your other spells.

So, it's not quite the same as a sorcerer being able to spam any and all of their spells known. The strength of a wizard is being able to book dive and pull a rabbit out of their hat, and the sorcerer CAN replicate that.

The getting early access thing is annoying. BUt I'm sure the wizard also envied your ability to keep casting a needed spell over and over without having to give up other options, so it's a balance thing.

==Aelryinth

Artificers from Eberron had a similar ability with Metamagic Infusion. they could 1) use an infusion to add a metamagic effect to an item they were holding. So, add Empower to a Scorching Ray wand.

and 2) Use Metamagic Item with charged items, paying the cost of a single metamagic effect with the charges of the item on a 1:1 basis. So, two charges to pay for an Empower effect on a wand.

So, in practice, they'd throw a Twin Spell or Maximize on the wand with INfusion, and then buy the Empower Effect with charges. Add in Wand Master or Cannith Wand adept to increase the caster level of a wand, and they could do serious damage with wands.

==Aelryinth

Alex, the Jingasa is an unaffiliated slot for AC bonuses. The price would be doubled.

The Jingasa at 5k giving both the +1 Luck Bonus AND the crit negation is underpriced by the very rules. Given the example of the Buffering Cap being 2000 gp and not even NEGATING the crit, the Jingasa should have been an absolute minimum of 9-10k gp.

The artificial inflation of the Luck Bonus with cheap traits is what prodded the change to the deflection bonus. They could probably have made it a competence or insight bonus, but eh.

==Aelryinth

If you know what you are going to fight, Wizard is better. You can tailor spells to meet challenges.

In real play, that seldom happens. In such event, a sorceror with a diverse spell selection that they can spam as appropriate for an encounter is often more suitable.

Magic items for sorcerers, such as Pages of Spell Knowledge, Mnemonic Vestments, Rings of Spell Knowledge, and the Feat Versatile Spontanaeity allow Sorcerors to expand, spontaneously access, and memorize extra spells to give them the versatility of Wizards. In addition, the human Favored Class bonus of an extra Spell Known starts rapidly expanding their spells on hand, reducing the need for customizing even further.

I think you will have more fun playing a sorcerer. The ARcane and Destined Bloodlines are both great for general play. You can BUY the versatility of a wizard.

The one difference you will find is in skill points. Because Wizards have Int as primary, they end up with lots of skill points and can play a brain character. Sorcs can't do that. But, since you have magic, that shouldn't be much of an issue.

==Aelryinth

ANY MM feat they have? Wow. That would be...nice. Can they stack more then one?

That's...really strong, even if its only for one spell. I would probably restrict it to ONE MM feat, so you know the effect and cost, and can control it and price it accordingly.

==Aelryinth

ah, you're limiting to +2 in total. Okay, thought you were limiting to +2 and +2 equivalents. I'd personally allow +4 total, allowing them to eventually make a +2 Holy Sword, which would be a defining, mighty weapon. No opinion either way...do what's best!

No need to ban wands. Just make it so they can't churn them out in one day, like CLW wands. Wands of second level spells would take a SIGNIFICANT amount of downtime to make. Even better if you don't allow partial casting times and non-concurrent work...all at one go, or nothing. And then ask what the rest of the party is doing during the ten days where the wizard is casting mirror Images into his wand, etc.

Letting them be used with spell slots instead turns them into virtual Pages of Spell Knowledge, only wizards can use them, too, a completely different kind of item. You'd also have to rule on the resulting caster level. It's a backhanded way of expanding their available spell book or Spells Known, I guess.

Expending charges to power a metamagic feat for a specific spell means pricing up a new paradigm for such. I'm not at all sure how to price such a thing out, or how to make it. It would be more powerful then a Rod, since you'd use charges and could do so many times in one day, but it would run out eventually, and also be restricted to one spell. Perhaps it would just cost the same as a wand of the same spell level as the metamagic feat it focuses, I don't know. I.e. a wand to Maximize a Fireball cast by the wielder costs the same as a 3rd level wand.

Oh, and because you're playing E6, I recommend heavily you move Sorceror SPells known and castable down one level. They are going to be limited enough in spells as it is.

==Aelryinth

core rules ;) Faf wasn't in core. They've popped in a couple things since. And they updated the big T in Inner Sea gods..kept the same Epic tho!

==Aelryinth

The Mythic Rules REVISED DR/EPic, which is what Kain Pen was referring to.

So, you can have either +6 Enhancement bonus, OR +6 of total Enhancement equivalents to bypass DR/Epic...in other words, a sufficiently valuable magic weapon.

The reason for the revision is because DR/Epic was made for Epic rules, where you could actually GET a +6 weapon. THe only way to do that in Pathfinder is a +4 Bane weapon against the right enemy...which opens up another huge can of worms for golf bags of weapons.

The only reason Dr/Epic is in the core rules is because the 3.5 Solar was redone with DR Epic, and they ported it over.

==Aelryinth

Couple of tips on crafting:

Don't let them use the custom crafting rules to make their own items. They'll break it quickly by abusing the /day or /charge rules.

Restrict items to those they can make with their base CL. So, nothing requiring a CL higher then 6. This naturally restricts many bonus items to +2.

Require them to BUY or research the formula for each magic item - that means Ring +1 and Ring +2 are different items. I would price them as a scroll of whatever the Caster Level is. So, a +2 weapon would require them forking out the cost of buying a level 6 scroll.

Also, enforce pre-reqs. They MUST know how to make a +1 weapon before they can make the +2.

You might really want to limit the total number of enhancements on a weapon. Even at CL 6, you can make a +2 Holy Bane Keen Lawful Flaming Burst weapon, you know.

i.e. taking the feat is cheap, easy and free. Forcing them to pay for each and every magic item they want to make, above and beyond component costs, is equal to researching each item themselves without spending the time to do so. They won't be able to afford the formula for anything except the stuff they really want the most, and those formulas are VALUABLE...just like the magic items they make.

Note that if you have magic items rare, letting PC's make them is logically a road to wealth.

I would actually have basic magic items fairly common (since any level 3 person could make a +1 item), but +2 items quite rare, as well as anything using a 3rd level spell, both from formula cost and the rarity of level 6 people. +3 items should be legendary class and famous relics.

I would also do something like forcing the expenditure of actual spells to make charged objects. No making a wand of CLW in one day. You actually have to have 50 CLW spells cast into the thing, and the time required to do that is part of the production time. Having mass amounts of low level spells is extremely powerful in a low level campaign.

==Aelryinth

Yes. It bypasses, Good, and it bypasses silver. satisfying the conditions for both lets it do so even if combined.

My rejoinder to you on bypassing: How many mages are affected by DR? Why does the fighter need to spend money on his golf bag of weapons, and the wizard just get to work normally, or use a different spell?

It is EXTREMELY annoying to have to pay for multiple weapons JUST to deal with DR, instead of one good weapon.

ALSO...the other big reason for it is to give a reason to permanently Enhance Weapons. What is the difference between a Greater Magic Weapon +5, and a +5 weapon in 3E? 50,000 gp you can spend on something else. Or, you could make a +1/+9 weapon, and a Pearl of Power (3rd), and just have the party cleric max it up to +5.
Or, more likely, the cleric would just do that to his own weapon.

By letting PERMANENT enhancements bypass DR, and not the spell, you tilt the power back to magical weapons being better then magical spells.

So, no golf bag was only one of the reasons. And really, just think of all the combos. Good and silver. Lawful and cold iron. Chaotic and adamantine. Piercing and gold. Good and cold iron. GLASS. Wood and piercing. I mean...come on! You can't make a big enough golf bag for all the DR they can throw at you.

==Aelryinth

Flying mounts: You touched on many of the limitations, but missed the most important one...enemies can kill the mount.

You can't kill a wizard's ability to cast overland flight, or a flying carpet, or a pair of winged boots, or the power to wildshape into an eagle.

Flying mounts are perfectly fine...but, should be expensive and/or rare. You have to take care of the bloody thing. That means adding upkeep time or cost. It has to be trained, equipped and looked after.

Also, most flying mounts have no ability to hover. That can be VERY important. And as you noted, they don't work in tight spaces.

Flying mounts are damage magnets, adventurers are a high-risk occupation and are probably going to get the mounts killed. They probably won't be available until level 6, and the PC's should think of flying mounts as something hugely valuable and very hard to replace. At the same time, bringing such things into combat should be very lethal...of course you're going to shoot down the griffon! And once it's dead, they have no way to replace it without probably months of time and effort.

At the level you let them have flying mounts, you should be using them simply as a plot vehicle to cover long distances, akin to boarding a train or dirigible. If you let them take the mounts into combat...let the chips fall where they may, and don't replace them. Treat each and every mount as a magical item in and of themselves.

And you are going to have to keep a VERY close eye on Crafting, if you allow it at all. Letting PC's make their choice of magic items will derail what you are trying to do faster then anything else.

lastly, restricted magic items was actually the 'norm' for 1e and 2e...while you certainly could have an Xmas tree of goodies, it wasn't required or even expected...it was just nice to have.
And making your own items, of course, was nigh impossible.

==Aelryinth

Stuff that breaks the game is either powerful or can be used frequently/permanently.

Troublesome things:
Rings of Invisibility, or anything else providing large skill modifiers.
Anything that teleports (makes travels superfluous).
Anything that allows continual flight (as teleport, obviates movement skills).
Fabricate. (obviates crafting skills)
Stuff allowing dimensional travel. (as teleport)
Shapechanging stuff. (free movement modes and stat buffs)
Summoning stuff (esp numbers of it) (access to spells, bodies, combat ability)
Stuff with DR (because you're going to need a golf bag of weapons to bypass it, instead of one good weapon).
Anything with high stats or save DC's (because you don't have save buffing tools).
Complete access to spell lists (because it encourages cherry picking)
Large spell lists (because it HELPS cherry picking and crossing roles).
Pets without penalties (easily replaceable means unvalued).

==Aelryinth