Adimarchus's page

Adimarchus wrote:

I am a lone 17th level wizard. I see a wyrm white dragon closing on my position. I cast a gate spell and summon a solar. I now use my rod of metamagic quicken to cast a quickened Mage's Magnificent Manison. I use my remaining move action to step into the portal. I command the unseen servants staffing the mansion to give me a back rub. I fall asleep. I wake up 1D3 hours later. I cast invisibility. I fly out of the mansion using my already cast overland flight spell. I look for the body of the dragon. When I find the body I cast a limited wish to replicate a speak with dead spell. I ascertain where the dragons horde is and with any remaining questions I find out of any traps he's prepared. I next use a fabricate spell to skin and prepare the dragon's hide. I summon a large earth elemental and command it to put the skin in my portable hole. I go to the white dragons horde. I take it, recouping the loss of 5000 gp for the gate and 1500 gp for the limited wish.

I go home and reflect on how good my life is.

And this differs from using Time Stop, then a bunch of summon monster IX spells or delayed blast fireballs (vulnerability to fire) in what way? Or just, you know, any other high level spells? Or even the lowly dragon-killing combo of spectral hand + shivering touch? SR 25 means you'd need to roll an 8 or higher (4 with greater spell penetration), which is easily attainable.

hogarth wrote:

This is my main question. A Metamagic Rod of Greater Quicken is extremely powerful. But shouldn't something that costs 170,000 gp be extremely powerful? Is the price really that "cheap", relatively speaking?

I don't know the answer; I play in low level games almost exclusively, so I've never seen a metamagic rod in play except for Lesser Extend (which is quite popular).

I feel the price is about right for the power level. Based on my experience, unless you start out at level 17+, you won't have the money to buy something this expensive until you're close to level 20/21.

Well first off all you asked was how is gate broken. I think I may have shown that. Second, I never said Summon Monster and such were balanced. Perhaps you should look at this thread to see other spells that appear to be a bit overpowered.

How exactly is a quickened gate, which is essentially a really good summoning spell, "broken"? Do you have any examples?

I am a lone 17th level wizard. I see a wyrm white dragon closing on my position. I cast a gate spell and summon a solar. I now use my rod of metamagic quicken to cast a quickened Mage's Magnificent Manison. I use my remaining move action to step into the portal. I command the unseen servants staffing the mansion to give me a back rub. I fall asleep. I wake up 1D3 hours later. I cast invisibility. I fly out of the mansion using my already cast overland flight spell. I look for the body of the dragon. When I find the body I cast a limited wish to replicate a speak with dead spell. I ascertain where the dragons horde is and with any remaining questions I find out of any traps he's prepared. I next use a fabricate spell to skin and prepare the dragon's hide. I summon a large earth elemental and command it to put the skin in my portable hole. I go to the white dragons horde. I take it, recouping the loss of 5000 gp for the gate and 1500 gp for the limited wish.

I go home and reflect on how good my life is.

...A clause that prohibits casting of a spell that would otherwise be out of the caster's ability, would go a long way to rectify things...

This at the very least is the minimum that needs to be done to stop meta magic rods from ruining games. Exactly how balance is it to let a player cast a maximized meteor swarm followed immediately in the same turn a quickened meteor swarm. This stupid little trick does an average of 304 damage with no save.

Recently, my playgroup has adopted the Pathfinder system. I like the system as a whole, and love what has been done with skills, but I suggest a few changes based on playtest experience:

Roll Swim and Climb into a single skill: These skills still seem useless, especially since all the other 'useless' skills have been packaged, like jump and balance, or decipher script and forgery. We've named the new skill Athletics.

Concentration isn't fully covered. I like that concentration has been rolled into spellcraft, but this presents a problem. The diamond mind school out of ToB uses concentration in a lot of things that spellcraft doesn't suit. We've created a new skill, called Focus, that rolls this martial half of concentration together with the Autohypnosis skill from XPH. Base it off CON, or INT, depending on balance decisions there, and it becomes a useful skill in it's own right, and meshes correctly with ToB.

I strongly agree that swim and climb should be folded into a combo skill like athletics. There is no one I have ever played or even heard of that took max ranks in both skills and they are kinda redundant. This would make it more economical to take fair ranks in it and see a strong improvement.

Other skills which I think need folding in are knowledge(nobility) and knowledge(history) since both these things are learned with each other in school and knowing a lot about one lends itself to knowing a lot about the other.
Ex. Knowing that Charlemagne ruled France from 768AD to 814AD through the knowledge(nobility) skill tells you that Charlemagne ruled France. Which is a historical fact. There are no pieces of information that knowledge(nobility) would tell you that you wouldn't be able to get from knowledge(history). There is no need for this to be two skills.

Knowledge(geography) and knowledge(local) can also reasonably be folded into each other. The main reasons her is that no one ever takes 20 ranks of knowledge(local) and you always run into the problem of where is you local knowledge and where does it end. It doesn't make sense. Just fold them into each other and you get one skill that can reasonably be expected to do the job of both.

Adimarchus wrote:

OK, saying that the spell is only broken 3.5% of the time is like saying your car is fine if it only breaks down once a month. All instadeath attacks should be eliminated. Period. I'm not saying that they shouldn't do a lot of damage, I just don't want a 50 hp wizard dieing from the same 4th level spell that can kill a 990 hp maximum advance kraken!

The game is predicated on random dice rolls so actually stuff like this will happen from time to time - complaining about randomness is basically complaining about the fundamental basis of the game. And it cuts both ways - PCs get bad dice too. Save or die might be a problem, but since some people like them and some people don't (I don't, personally, at least as a DM using them on PCs - players can use them with no problem) I don't really see them going away. The real issue is how hard they are to save against - they are normally only reliable against lower level chaff, as the 3.5% chance indicates (I also remeber a thread here that was basically about "poor" casters and how they wanted effects from these killer spells even on a failed save, so they didn't "waste" a casting if it didn't go off). And the chance of a 990hp monster failing two saves (Phantasmal Killer gives you two, remember, so it's only really effective at killing rogues) is negligible.

The game is predicated on random rolls, but not absolutely random rolls. A bastard sword, no matter how specialized you get in it never does 1 to infinity damage, and that is what you have to accept is OK if you think death effects are balanced. You have to say it is OK for some things to do infinity damage. I'm don't think you have to go that far. What is wrong with putting a reasonable damage cap on Phantasmal killer? Is it so offensive to some people that they now may not be able to instantly slay a great wyrm white dragon with a paltry 4th level spell. As far as the odds go they are exactly one in four hundred or 0.25%. I know that seem like nothing but that is the chance that that creature has of dieing every time a "swingy" instant death spell is cast. How the hell do creatures like great wyrm whites ever get to be great wyrms if they can be oneshotted by a paltry 4th level spell. I just don't see the reason to leave it in if they have already taken out the majority of higher level instant death attacks either.

Majuba wrote:

Sueki Suezo wrote:

Phantasmal Killer is still broken. We killed a Marilith in the first round of combat thanks to this spell. It should do damage dice like Slay Living (12d6+1 point per caster level).

That must have been pretty terrible saves made. Vs. a +10 casting modifier an unprepared Marilith would only need a 10 on the Will or a 5 on the Fort save to avoid death (9% chance of dying). Even against a +12 with greater spell focus a prepared Marilith (Unholy Aura at will) only has a 3.5% chance of dying.

I think that's fairly reasonable.

Personally, I think it would be much more reasonable if she just took 12D6 + 1 point of damage per level of the caster instead of dropping over stone dead (much like the rest of the SoD spells are set up now).

OK, saying that the spell is only broken 3.5% of the time is like saying your car is fine if it only breaks down once a month. All instadeath attacks should be eliminated. Period. I'm not saying that they shouldn't do a lot of damage, I just don't want a 50 hp wizard dieing from the same 4th level spell that can kill a 990 hp maximum advance kraken!

Sueki Suezo said,

Temporal Stasis

Spoiler:
Given the severity of the penalties that are imposed by this spell and the long-term nature of the effects, the casting time for Temporal Stasis should be increased to 10 minutes. We are also debating if the Saving Throw should be changed to none. This will allow spellcasters to imprison targets that are restrained or helpless, but they will not be able to do so in the middle of combat. Needless to say, this spell should not be able to be affected by the Quicken Spell feat.

I strongly agree that all spells that are still effectively instant death should be taken out of regular combat use. For the record that means any spell that permanently takes a character out of combat without the aid of allies. Once you remove it form active combat the fact that it's a noncombat spell and is 8th level means a save is no longer necessary. Oh, and BTW Quicken Spell can only be used with spells whose casting time is 1 full-round action or less so once you take it out of active combat status it is automatically out of Quickens reach.

Don't forget Vital strike. That feat is pure feat tax for any melee type.

There is absolutely nothing in the feat description of either Vital Strike or Improved Vital Strike that says it is a melee only feat. It's just as powerful for ranged fighters, if not more so because of Manyshot and Rapid Shot. Other feats that seem to be melee on but are not are.

Dazzling Display
Stunned Defense
Deadly Stroke
and Arcane Strike

I think the point Brodiggan Gale is trying to get across is that Dex fighters are about as good as Str fighters. Both have strengths and weaknesses but neither is clearly superior to the other.

I think the whole mechanic is uselessly dated. With the new 20th level cap abilities there is much less incentive to min/max by taking a little here and a little there. That was probably the original intent of favored classes anyway. To prevent people from getting 1 or 2 levels in 10 to 15 classes which would cause them to have insane saves. If you leave out favored classes there is still the fact that almost all the races bonuses match their favored classes anyway. You already have a very strong incentive to play to type already. What do you need more reinforcement for?