Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster Project!

Wednesday, April 26, 2023

Today, we are pleased to reveal the Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster Project, four new hardcover rulebooks that offer a fresh entry point to the Pathfinder Second Edition roleplaying game! The first two books, Pathfinder Player Core and Pathfinder GM Core, release this November, with Pathfinder Monster Core (March 2024) and Pathfinder Player Core 2 (July 2024) completing the remastered presentation of Pathfinder’s core rules. The new rulebooks are compatible with existing Pathfinder Second Edition products, incorporating comprehensive errata and rules updates as well as some of the best additions from later books into new, easy-to-access volumes with streamlined presentations inspired by years of player feedback.


Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster Project


This year saw a huge explosion of new Pathfinder players. Remastered books like Pathfinder Player Core and Pathfinder GM Core improve upon the presentation of our popular Pathfinder Second Edition rules, remixing four years of updates and refinements to make the game easier to learn and more fun to play.


Pathfinder Player Core Cover Mock


In time, the Pathfinder Player Core, Pathfinder GM Core, Pathfinder Monster Core, and Pathfinder Player Core 2 will replace the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Gamemastery Guide, Bestiary, and Advanced Player’s Guide, which Paizo will not reprint once their current print runs expire. Existing Pathfinder players should be assured that the core rules system remains the same, and the overwhelming majority of the rules themselves will not change. Your existing books are still valid. The newly formatted books consolidate key information in a unified place—for example, Pathfinder Player Core will collect all the important rules for each of its featured classes in one volume rather than spreading out key information between the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player’s Guide.

The new core rulebooks will also serve as a new foundation for our publishing partners, transitioning the game away from the Open Game License that caused so much controversy earlier this year to the more stable and reliable Open RPG Creative (ORC) license, which is currently being finalized with the help of hundreds of independent RPG publishers. This transition will result in a few minor modifications to the Pathfinder Second Edition system, notably the removal of alignment and a small number of nostalgic creatures, spells, and magic items exclusive to the OGL. These elements remain a part of the corpus of Pathfinder Second Edition rules for those who still want them, and are fully compatible with the new remastered rules, but will not appear in future Pathfinder releases.


Pathfinder GM Core mock cover


In the meantime, Pathfinder’s remaining projects and product schedule remain as-is and compatible with the newly remastered rules. This July’s Rage of Elements hardcover, along with the Lost Omens campaign setting books and our regular monthly Adventure Path volumes, continue as planned, as does the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign, which will incorporate the new rules as they become available.

Learn more with our FAQ here or read it below

Is this a new edition of Pathfinder?

No. The Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster Project does not change the fundamental core system design of Pathfinder. Small improvements and cosmetic changes appear throughout, but outside of a few minor changes in terminology, the changes are not anywhere substantive enough to be considered a new edition. We like Pathfinder Second Edition. You like Pathfinder Second Edition. This is a remastered version of the original, not a new version altogether.

Are my existing Pathfinder Second Edition books now obsolete?

No. With the exception of a few minor variations in terminology and a slightly different mix of monsters, spells, and magic items, the rules remain largely unchanged. A pre-Remaster stat block, spell, monster, or adventure should work with the remastered rules without any problems.

What does this mean for my digital content?

Paizo is working with its digital partners to integrate new system updates in the most seamless way possible. The new rules will be uploaded to Archives of Nethys as usual, and legacy content that does not appear in the remastered books will not disappear from online rules.

We will not be updating PDFs of legacy products with the updated rules.

Will the Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster books be part of my ongoing Pathfinder Rulebooks subscription?

Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster books will be included in ongoing Pathfinder Rulebooks subscriptions. We are currently working on a method whereby existing subscribers will have the opportunity to “opt out” of these volumes if they wish and will provide additional details as we get closer to the release of the first two volumes.

What impact will the Second Edition Remaster have on Pathfinder Society Organized Play?

We are working closely with our Organized Play team to seamlessly integrate new rules options in the upcoming books as those books are released, as normal. In the rare case of a conflict between a new book and legacy source, campaign management will provide clear advice with as little disruption as possible to player characters or the campaign itself.

Will there be more Remastered Core books to come? What about Monster Core 2 or Player Core 3?

It’s very likely that we will continue to update and remaster the Bestiaries in the future, but for now we’re focusing on the four announced books as well as Paizo’s regular schedule of Pathfinder releases. Publishing 100% new material remains Paizo’s primary focus, and we look forward to upcoming releases like Pathfinder Rage of Elements, the Lost Omens Tian Xia World Guide and Character Guide, our monthly Adventure Path installments, and other exciting projects we have yet to announce.

Will the new Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster books have Special Editions?

Yes. We are looking into various exciting print options for these books and will post more information soon.

Will the new Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster books have Pocket Editions?

Yes. Pocket editions of the new books will appear roughly three months following the hardcover releases.

Will these changes impact the Starfinder Roleplaying Game?

Not yet.

How can I learn more about the Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster books?

To learn more about the Remaster books, check out our live stream chat about the announcement happening later today on Twitch. Beyond that, we’ll be making a handful of additional announcements in the coming days and weeks to showcase more about this exciting project, culminating in your first full look at the project during PaizoCon (May 26th–29th)!

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Paizo Pathfinder Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
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7 people marked this as a favorite.

The alignment system is a useful way to describe things and it seems a bit unfortunate that we'll be losing that tool even though a lot of the setting will still sort of be based off of it. The planes are literally opposed to one another cosmologically and the alignment grid was a good way to see that, though I suppose we might get some renamed/restyled flavor of it? Maybe something like the alignment wheel from the Pathfinder Kingmaker videogame, I did like that one for showing how much space there is within an alignment.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Q: "Will this have an effect on Starfinder?"
A: "Not Yet."

I'm not a fan of 'not yet'. I like the Starfinder engine as-is (closer to PF1 than PF2), and I've dumped a small fortune into getting as much Starfinder and 3PP Starfinder material as possible. There's a few specific things in PF2 I would not want to see in Starfinder. Now, if you were simply to tweak Starfinder a bit and integrate stuff like you're planning with PF2, okay, sure, a 'Starfinder Core' would be cool. No complaint there.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Mephits will be renamed and have a 'cooler better name'.

Inquisitor not in Core or Core2

No immediate reprint of Beginner Box, but probable down the line.

Some spells are getting renamed, strong hopes for multi-action spells in future.

More Paizo Blog to come, possibly tomorrow(?)

...and MUCH, MUCH, more!!!

Radiant Oath

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Just as an open statement, let us not feed those who thrive on toxicity.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Leaning more into edicts and anathemas can be fun, I love giving out divine boons(and one or two curses)


3 people marked this as a favorite.

"Flag and Move On" is a good way to go about one's business.


30 people marked this as a favorite.

I hope everyone knows that intolerance aimed at trans people is a forum permaban, and has been for two years.

Bye! :D


I like alignments and dislike ability scores so it evens out to me lol.

But really I started with pf1e and had no problem moving to all the changes in pf2e and don't think I'll have any trouble with moving to pf2orce. I'm always up for good changes and it seems like the need to get away from the OGL has accelerated the move away from dand tropes that paizo has honestly always been in the process of.

What I am amazed by though is how paizo never does anything easy! It would have been easy to just tweak a few things in the move to ORC. But the company decides to change the entire core publishing model!

I also really like rethinking some of paizo's own sacred cows. Giant core rule book is frankly one of the things that defines paizo and to rethink that based on feedback from the wider community is really forward thinking and frankly laudable to revisit such a fundamental decision!

Liberty's Edge

I'm running a Pathfinder 2e game now. Everyone is just getting used to how the system works. Now Paizo goes and changes stuff. I hate change. I don't see why they need to change it.

Liberty's Edge

13 people marked this as a favorite.

Very excited for all of this, but I would like to take the opportunity to beg the design team to take a look at Unconventional Weaponry and Additional Lore so that they don't incentivize making your characters "backwards." It should not be easier for a fighter from Goka to use a falcata than a fighter from Taldor, and it shouldn't make more sense for a legendary card sharp to not take a background offering Gambling Lore. I know these are minor things but they have been my personal bugbears since the edition first released!

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm excited to see ability scores and the legacy alignment system ditched for pure modifiers and personal edicts and anathemas. Should help Pathfinder have its own feel instead of living in another system's shadow.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?

That is correct. Some of the rule changes are somewhat larger than a typical errata, but nothing that changes the game itself.

Alignment is probably the biggest core change, but even then it seems less like it's actually going away and more that it's becoming a thing one ops into.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
CorvusMask wrote:

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?

Exactly.

Some classes are getting some much needed improvements - such as Witch.

They are also getting shuffled around on which book they are in. Going from a CRB heavy and APG light distribution to a more even distribution between the two books of which class is in which book.

But the rules really aren't changing all that much.

Silver Crusade

18 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CapeCodRPGer wrote:
I'm running a Pathfinder 2e game now. Everyone is just getting used to how the system works. Now Paizo goes and changes stuff. I hate change. I don't see why they need to change it.

Hey, disliking change is absolutely okay. Change is hard, especially when it comes at a pace you can't control. So I want to offer you some legitimate advice regarding how to handle the changes here:

1) You don't have to buy the new Pathfinder Core Books, or change anything at your table ahead of a pace you and your table are comfortable with. If you want to keep playing the game exactly as it is at your home table, you have that option.

2) You can introduce any core changes you like gradually. If there are aspects of the updates that you do like, or want to implement you can do that piece-meal at the table. Maybe you like Rogues getting Martial proficiency, and Wizards getting simple weapon proficiency. So you incorporate that in your current game.

Also to address the "why they need to change it".

They are changing the licence of the game, and giving Pathfinder its own identity that is not tied to D&D. This is a direct reaction to the very public community affecting fumbles of WotC. This also brings Pathfinder in line with their ORC release, so that compatible products can be produced for their game that no longer are tied to any intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast. Additionally, they have been building rules changes and tweaks since the playtest and final release and these quality of life changes all have an opportunity to be released at once with these books.

I truly hope you and your group have fun playing Pathfinder, whatever version you prefer at your table.


12 people marked this as a favorite.
CorvusMask wrote:

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?

I want to be clear: This is exactly what I understand is happening. I can forgive people for being apprehensive and alarmed because "Nothing is actually changing" was the story that One D&D started with, too, right before ripping open the OGL debacle that provoked this change. I can see why people might reflexively flinch.

That said, for all intents and purposes it appears that most of these changes are either errata that was coming in a few months anyway, or changes that are made specifically as a ripple effect of the OGL debacle previously mentioned. Alignment seems to be the biggest single change and it suits that the reason for the alignment change is partly rooted in both those reasons.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

And even alignment isn't so much being removed as being split up and reworked.

As a guide to how a character behaves, alignment is being replaced with personal Edicts and Anathema.

As a damage type, aligned damage is being replaced by damage types with different names.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
Ability Scores are out. Modifiers only.

That would suck. It was bad enough that HeroLab OnLine has still not had the ability scores be featured instead of the ability mods with teeny tiny list of the actual scores to the side.

Why would they copy Mutants and Masterminds?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh, and as a cosmology concept, alignment is still mostly present - though again perhaps not with the same names. The various factions still exist and still war against each other.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?

I want to be clear: This is exactly what I understand is happening. I can forgive people for being apprehensive and alarmed because "Nothing is actually changing" was the story that One D&D started with, too, right before ripping open the OGL debacle that provoked this change. I can see why people might reflexively flinch.

That said, for all intents and purposes it appears that most of these changes are either errata that was coming in a few months anyway, or changes that are made specifically as a ripple effect of the OGL debacle previously mentioned. Alignment seems to be the biggest single change and it suits that the reason for the alignment change is partly rooted in both those reasons.

I think, at least for me, I really want to feel like it's all going to be fine. I want to not be worried and to trust paizo.

But I feel like not enough information was given to make it clear how lawful/chaos and lore would be handled. Saying "not much will change" isn't clear. Hearing other not-employed-by-paizo people saying that also doesn't help.

Clear answers to questions people kept asking over and over would be better and would go farther to allowing people to chill out.

Till then, can you blame people for being anxious?


13 people marked this as a favorite.
thaX wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Ability Scores are out. Modifiers only.

That would suck. It was bad enough that HeroLab OnLine has still not had the ability scores be featured instead of the ability mods with teeny tiny list of the actual scores to the side.

Why would they copy Mutants and Masterminds?

It’s not a “would” anything - this change is in, presumably because Ability Scores that were entirely vestigial was silly. If an 18 Strength only matters because it gives you a +4, it should probably just be a +4 Strength, no confusing 18 needed.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
keftiu wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

The one thing I'm wondering about with the loss of alignment is how they're going to present certain deities.

Like Torag being Lawful and Good is an important bit of context to his edicts *not* demanding genocide. Arazni being Neutral and Evil but granting divine power to only one evil alignment, three neutral alignments, and one good alignment tells us a lot about Arazni. I sort of suspect what we're going to be doing is "backformating a lot of this." Like "Arazni is still NE, and allows CG, LN, N, CN, and NE clerics, but we're not going to say any of those words."

I think Torag is less fraught when you don't have to label what he's doing Lawful and Good. Likewise, "Arazni grants powers to those abuse survivors who refuse to have their pride broken by suffering" is perfectly coherent without a list of Cleric alignments stapled to it.

I feel like this is kinda reopening the door to "good" or "neutral" Asmodeus or Lamashtu worshippers though. They specifically moved away from that for a reason.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wait a sec

Does this mean its too late to do my dire corby bestiary pathfinder infinite idea I worked on but kinda lost steam to finish because I got anxious over editing it? :'D

Lantern Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Will the chromatic and metallic dragons be nixed and redone?


5 people marked this as a favorite.
CapeCodRPGer wrote:
I'm running a Pathfinder 2e game now. Everyone is just getting used to how the system works. Now Paizo goes and changes stuff. I hate change. I don't see why they need to change it.

You've changed more than I have. I'm still on 1E.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
keftiu wrote:
If an 18 Strength only matters because it gives you a +4, it should probably just be a +4 Strength, no confusing 18 needed.

Yeah, I can finally stop dealing with confused players when they roll 1d20 and then ask me if they add the 18, the +4, or the +22 Athletics bonus when trying to force open a door. Now there is at least one less option for them to ask about.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
breithauptclan wrote:
Oh, and as a cosmology concept, alignment is still mostly present - though again perhaps not with the same names. The various factions still exist and still war against each other.

I'm curious to see what new terms they'll use to describe the planes. Sure, you can say Hell embodies 'tyranny', but that feels a bit more narrow in scope than anything and everything lawful evil.

Applying cosmic morality to characters has always been a bit strange even if it does decide where your soul will end up. I think that personal edicts and anathema are more intuitive for most mortals.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thaX wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Ability Scores are out. Modifiers only.

That would suck. It was bad enough that HeroLab OnLine has still not had the ability scores be featured instead of the ability mods with teeny tiny list of the actual scores to the side.

Why would they copy Mutants and Masterminds?

Why would they keep ability scores at all? They don't seem to be used or affect anything other than modifiers, so might as well just do modifiers.

Unless they do something that I'm missing out on?

Radiant Oath

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Viviolay wrote:
Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?

I want to be clear: This is exactly what I understand is happening. I can forgive people for being apprehensive and alarmed because "Nothing is actually changing" was the story that One D&D started with, too, right before ripping open the OGL debacle that provoked this change. I can see why people might reflexively flinch.

That said, for all intents and purposes it appears that most of these changes are either errata that was coming in a few months anyway, or changes that are made specifically as a ripple effect of the OGL debacle previously mentioned. Alignment seems to be the biggest single change and it suits that the reason for the alignment change is partly rooted in both those reasons.

I think, at least for me, I really want to feel like it's all going to be fine. I want to not be worried and to trust paizo.

But I feel like not enough information was given to make it clear how lawful/chaos and lore would be handled. Saying "not much will change" isn't clear. Hearing other not-employed-by-paizo people saying that also doesn't help.

Clear answers to questions people kept asking over and over would be better and would go farther to allowing people to chill out.

Till then, can you blame people for being anxious?

I agree that hearing "It will be okay" from random people does little to alleviate the ambiguity, but right now the best thing to do is wait for Paizo's announcement. It's a concern that will be addressed at a later time. Trying to pry a definite answer from those who merely hope their words are correct is futile.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
CorvusMask wrote:

Wait a sec

Does this mean its too late to do my dire corby bestiary pathfinder infinite idea I worked on but kinda lost steam to finish because I got anxious over editing it? :'D

*sigh*

Considering that Paizo themselves aren't planning on redoing anything other than a few of their core rulebooks - you are probably fine.


Arutema wrote:
I'm excited to see ability scores and the legacy alignment system ditched for pure modifiers and personal edicts and anathemas. Should help Pathfinder have its own feel instead of living in another system's shadow.

!!! Is that related with aligned damage!?

How about Holy/Unholy/Anarchic/Axiomatic runes, previously linked with alignment?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
breithauptclan wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

Wait a sec

Does this mean its too late to do my dire corby bestiary pathfinder infinite idea I worked on but kinda lost steam to finish because I got anxious over editing it? :'D

*sigh*

Considering that Paizo themselves aren't planning on redoing anything other than a few of their core rulebooks - you are probably fine.

I'm not sure why you are sighing but its causing me anxiety x'D

Anyway, what I meant was that "cuz I was thinking of 'oh its nice to publish under orc'" then realized "wait a sec, those are ogl aren't they" ._.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Donald wrote:
Will the chromatic and metallic dragons be nixed and redone?

Probably. They did namedrop about 5 new dragon types in the livestream when they were talking about how they are not going to be in families based on mettalic or color, but grouped more by the magical tradition themes.


16 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

As someone who believe that alignment had its merits, I am happy with these changes. We always understood the argument against alignment and thought it was a strong one, it was just personal preference. But here with the robust edicts and anathema, and making an opt in option for cosmological forces really keeps what I like about alignment for the most part.

I am excited about a lot of the changes the rogue and wizard changes were once we have been gming with for awhile now.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Viviolay wrote:
Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

So just to check because I'm now confused of what people are talking bout. From what I understood, they are basically doing erratad changed version of classes and core options, but its not like they are changing rules or skill math or monster math?

So like post remaster and pre remaster versions are still working on same rules and same math and this is more of glorified errata with more changes than normal errata?

I want to be clear: This is exactly what I understand is happening. I can forgive people for being apprehensive and alarmed because "Nothing is actually changing" was the story that One D&D started with, too, right before ripping open the OGL debacle that provoked this change. I can see why people might reflexively flinch.

That said, for all intents and purposes it appears that most of these changes are either errata that was coming in a few months anyway, or changes that are made specifically as a ripple effect of the OGL debacle previously mentioned. Alignment seems to be the biggest single change and it suits that the reason for the alignment change is partly rooted in both those reasons.

I think, at least for me, I really want to feel like it's all going to be fine. I want to not be worried and to trust paizo.

But I feel like not enough information was given to make it clear how lawful/chaos and lore would be handled. Saying "not much will change" isn't clear. Hearing other not-employed-by-paizo people saying that also doesn't help.

Clear answers to questions people kept asking over and over would be better and would go farther to allowing people to chill out.

Till then, can you blame people for being anxious?

I feel like it's come up several times in this thread that nothing about the overall cosmology or setting is changing. They're just going to express those through terms that don't have the stink of the OGL on them.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
thaX wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Ability Scores are out. Modifiers only.

That would suck. It was bad enough that HeroLab OnLine has still not had the ability scores be featured instead of the ability mods with teeny tiny list of the actual scores to the side.

Why would they copy Mutants and Masterminds?

It’s not a “would” anything - this change is in, presumably because Ability Scores that were entirely vestigial was silly. If an 18 Strength only matters because it gives you a +4, it should probably just be a +4 Strength, no confusing 18 needed.

Except at level 5-9 when it was a 19, and still a +4 and then at 15-19 when it was a 21 +5.

Do I now get to have it at a +8 at level 20? If not, how will boosts work? Am I going to have to keep track of some "vestigial" half-bonus?

EDIT: That would be silly to me, when Stat-10 divided by 2 rounded down is pretty easy math. Also, it screws with the "roll your stats" option some people like.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
thaX wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Ability Scores are out. Modifiers only.

That would suck. It was bad enough that HeroLab OnLine has still not had the ability scores be featured instead of the ability mods with teeny tiny list of the actual scores to the side.

Why would they copy Mutants and Masterminds?

It’s not a “would” anything - this change is in, presumably because Ability Scores that were entirely vestigial was silly. If an 18 Strength only matters because it gives you a +4, it should probably just be a +4 Strength, no confusing 18 needed.

So, when I want to go up to +5, what happens? I don't have a "19" in the score anymore, so I can only have lower scores go up now?

This is an unnecessary change, and one that would have nothing to do with the OGL/ORC issue. Alignment has always been in the crosshairs, as Small Weapons got the boot in the crossover between PF1 and PF2. The focus on the modifiers has always been a strange duck, and all scores going up by two exclusively instead of the point buy in PF1 (D&D as well?) has always been a head scratcher for me. Starfinder even has a single point stat bonus in character creation.

Mods only makes it generic. I didn't like it in Mutants and Masterminds, not gonna like it here.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
CapeCodRPGer wrote:
I'm running a Pathfinder 2e game now. Everyone is just getting used to how the system works. Now Paizo goes and changes stuff. I hate change. I don't see why they need to change it.

From what I've seen, the actual way the game works hasn't changed. Like if you're running a game with a Fighter, a Rogue, a Druid, and a Wizard then mostly what has changed is on the level of "normal errata", "some spells might get new names", and "the character sheet will have a few fewer fields."

Like the character sheet already has separate boxes for "Strength Score" and "Strength Modifier" (and you could always infer one from the other) so now we'll have one column there instead of two.

I mean, even if the Pathfinder Core no longer has the Magic Missile or the Owlbear, the rules we currently have for firing a magic missile at an Owlbear in the existing rules will still work with the Revised rules. It's mostly that the people who start with the Revised rules will not have "an Owlbear has 70 HP and Magic Missile does 1d4+1" in the books they own.

Radiant Oath

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dokacity wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Oh, and as a cosmology concept, alignment is still mostly present - though again perhaps not with the same names. The various factions still exist and still war against each other.

I'm curious to see what new terms they'll use to describe the planes. Sure, you can say Hell embodies 'tyranny', but that feels a bit more narrow in scope than anything and everything lawful evil.

Applying cosmic morality to characters has always been a bit strange even if it does decide where your soul will end up. I think that personal edicts and anathema are more intuitive for most mortals.

Each alignment is very broad, true. And yet most people who share an alignment fall under a similar ideological umbrella, which helps to describe them in a concise way. Your experiences and actions pull you toward a particular way of thinking which often aligns with the planes, which are built on these beliefs, broad as they are.

Yes, each one is a whole plane of existence with many different beings, and despite being categorically similar in many ways, edicts and anathema alone are an impotent way to describe each plane, but for an individual being, mortal or deity, it works well. Each act affects the soul in a way that shifts you ideologically toward one of these. Even apathy lands you somewhere.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
thaX wrote:
Starfinder even has a single point stat bonus in character creation.

And beyond a tiny handful of feat prereqs, that vestigial stat bonus is completely irrelevant. A character that begins with Str 10 and a character that begins with Str 11 will play absolutely identically throughout the entirety of gameplay from 1st level to 20th unless they take one of those feats - and PF2 uses even fewer that Starfinder; in fact, none at all that aren't even scores (i.e., would function the same just using the modifiers rather than the scores).


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Just some quick maths on page count and price:

Original 4 books, 1528 pages for $210. Remasters, 1496 pages for $240. That works out at a 17% increase. (happy for someone to check my calculations)

Considering that the original books didn't have any repeated (literally) text, I am guessing that that means less content, smaller fonts, tighter layout, less art, etc. Or maybe that is just the OGL stuff removed :)

I completely get the need to move away from OGL and onto ORC, and while doing that, why not change some things that were poorly received, but I also agree with others that are suggesting some kind of discount (even if only on the PDF) for those that already had core books. Everyone knows that FOMO exists and so some (many?) people will feel obliged to buy these because they will feel that game has moved on and this is how they keep up.

I also get the backwards compatibility, but if this is marketed as being an improvement, surely the expectation is that people will want the 'better' version. Paizo keep saying that your existing books are still fine, so why the remasters? Surely they don't really want people who have the existing books to not buy these new books. But I don't know how many core rulebooks are replaced by people over time - I only ever had 1 copy of the each of the PF1 hardbacks (and SF hardbacks) and didn't expected to replace my PF2 hardbacks.

And finaly it was little disheartening to hear that this was in the works but they didn't announce it until after the whole new stock of Core Rulebooks appeared and 'everyone' rushed to buy one after not being able to get their hands on one when the stock sold out after the OGL debacle. But I guess, the wait to July 2024 for all the core rules to be remastered is a long time to wait without anything (I am sure that I will buy these, but probably wait until all 4 books are out and then 'switch' to remastered).

(And one last thing, I wonder how much of the existing 'non-core' and Lost Omen books end up needing errata to account for the 'minor' changes, and how quick we will get that.)


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Reckless wrote:

Do I now get to have it at a +8 at level 20? If not, how will boosts work? Am I going to have to keep track of some "vestigial" half-bonus?

EDIT: That would be silly to me, when Stat-10 divided by 2 rounded down is pretty easy math. Also, it screws with the "roll your stats" option some people like.

Yes, there is going to be some mechanic to keep track of a half-boost or something like that. We don't have the details of that yet, but it isn't going to change the level at which it is possible to get a +5 ability bonus.

And rolling the dice, doing the -10 / 2 math, and then writing down only the final result isn't terribly hard either.


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OK let's start speculating!

One thing I noticed looking at the Player Core page is that other than the Bard, there are no spontaneous caster classes.

The classes that are there are: bard, cleric, druid, fighter, ranger, rogue, witch, and wizard!

While Player Core 2 got: alchemist, barbarian, champion, investigator, monk, oracle, sorcerer, and swashbuckler.

It makes me wonder now that. Maybe, just maybe, isn't the designers also considering reworking the prepared and spontaneous spellcasters? Like, for example, ending Vancian Spellcasting? This would justify a little why the spontaneous spellcasters are thrown to the 2nd book (to be better worked on, as it should be with the Champion if the vancian spellcasting really will be gone once this would make the casters mechanics more closer and will require some more work to make then more unique).

Ps.: Now that Paizo is reviewing everything, I would be very happy if they made some alternative rules for Spell Points.


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Cyouni wrote:
I feel like this is kinda reopening the door to "good" or "neutral" Asmodeus or Lamashtu worshippers though. They specifically moved away from that for a reason.

I think the way around this is to make "receiving divine power from a God" require accepting both a set of edicts and anathema specific to that God and a more general set of edicts and anathema shared by a bunch of simiilar Gods.

Like Clerics of Shelyn will have to accept the edicts and Anathema about art specific to Shelyn, but will also have to accept a set of "Be a Good Person" edicts and anathema that are identical to the "Be a Good Person" edicts and anathema that Clerics of Sarenrae have to accept.

These in places can replicate alignment a la "nobody gets power from Asmodeus unless they're Evil" but you can also contextualize some of the formerly Neutral deities as "interested in promoting a specific thing" rather than "promoting balance". Like Brigh's interest in promoting crafting and clockwork is basically the same thing as Nethys's interest in promoting Magic.


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One thing I hope Remastered does is add traits for things that are missing. Cultural trait for culture-based ancestry feats, weapon groups as traits, distinct Bow/Crossbow groups/traits, a Supernatural trait for mystical abilities that aren't explicitly magical (such as Barbarian Rage), etc.

It would help clear up various rules interactions.


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Cyouni wrote:
keftiu wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

The one thing I'm wondering about with the loss of alignment is how they're going to present certain deities.

Like Torag being Lawful and Good is an important bit of context to his edicts *not* demanding genocide. Arazni being Neutral and Evil but granting divine power to only one evil alignment, three neutral alignments, and one good alignment tells us a lot about Arazni. I sort of suspect what we're going to be doing is "backformating a lot of this." Like "Arazni is still NE, and allows CG, LN, N, CN, and NE clerics, but we're not going to say any of those words."

I think Torag is less fraught when you don't have to label what he's doing Lawful and Good. Likewise, "Arazni grants powers to those abuse survivors who refuse to have their pride broken by suffering" is perfectly coherent without a list of Cleric alignments stapled to it.
I feel like this is kinda reopening the door to "good" or "neutral" Asmodeus or Lamashtu worshippers though. They specifically moved away from that for a reason.

It may just be possible, on a table-to-table basis, but one thing that was brought up was that, (for example) if your deity cares about holy things, you still have to meet their standards to get power from them. I imagine it won't say "Must be LG, NG, or CG" anymore, but the concept that Sarenrae only allows her benevolent and altruistic followers tap into her divine frequency and the same will be true of Asmodeus demanding absolute dedication to his cruel and tyrannical power structure.

Or at least, this is exactly the idea I've been trying to solve myself for removing alignment by replacing deity alignment restrictions with something more like anathema guidelines, so I hope they have an idea for that.

Though on the side, I suppose it does strictly mean you don't have to be LE to worship Asmodeus... if only because "LE" doesn't exist anymore and the judgement call whether you're being sufficiently LE is replaced by a judgement call whether you're being sufficiently devout to Asmo.

EDIT: i.e. what the cabbage said


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YuriP wrote:

It makes me wonder now that. Maybe, just maybe, isn't the designers also considering reworking the prepared and spontaneous spellcasters? Like, for example, ending Vancian Spellcasting? This would justify a little why the spontaneous spellcasters are thrown to the 2nd book (to be better worked on, as it should be with the Champion if the vancian spellcasting really will be gone once this would make the casters mechanics more closer and will require some more work to make then more unique).

Ps.: Now that Paizo is reviewing everything, I would be very happy if they made some alternative rules for Spell Points.

We know for sure that they aren't drastically altering the way casting works, like getting rid of Vancian casting. That's a bigger change than alignment, and alignment is the biggest change. The class count for the first book needed to decrease by four. Maybe Sorcerer and Barbarian got moved because they rely on dragon changes being finalized.

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