Improvements Are A-Comin'

Monday, November 17, 2014


Illustration by Taylor Fischer

Over the past several months, there have been some growing concerns with Pathfinder Society Organized Play. As we would like to take action to correct the concerns instead of let them grow and fester, we reached out to all 395 Venture-Officers a month ago to receive their feedback on what was wrong with the campaign, what was good about the campaign, and what we could do to improve or correct things to make Pathfinder Society even more awesome. Even though there were some difficult opinions expressed, most were true and it caused us to take a hard look at the organized play program.

After receiving feedback from the Venture-Officers, we formed a team of Paizo employees to work on solutions for the concerns that were expressed. This team included Lisa Stevens and Erik Mona, Mark Seifter and Mark Moreland, John Compton, and me. There were 327 responses from our VOs regarding thoughts and feedback on the current state of PFS. I went through each and every post and listed every one of the concerns expressed on a large white board in our conference room. The meeting took upwards of six hours, and through debate, discussion, and some give and take, we came up with some solutions to most of the concerns that were expressed.

The Venture-Officers are aware of many of the initatives we have set forth to accomplish the goals. There are still other topics we are continuing to discuss on the Venture-Officer message board to make sure they are the best we can make them for the campaign at large. I wanted to write this blog to bring the player base up-to-date on some of the initiatives we have set into motion with the awesome collaboration that took place between the VOs and the Paizo team.

Factions

First, let's talk about factions and their roles. After much discussion here at Paizo, specifically on some problems that were brought up in the long discussion with all of the Venture-Officers, we agree that factions currently don't play as important a role as we would like them to. We want factions to have meaning and substance. We think our factions help to set PFS apart from other organized play campaigns. We have strategized a four-pronged plan of attack which we think will help return factions to a more important role in the campaign.

  • The five new factions are receiving a professional makeover for their faction symbols. Grand Lodge and Silver Crusade faction symbols will remain unchanged. If you have suggestions on what they should look like, please start a different thread. The target goal for this to be implemented is by the end of 2014.
  • There will be revised and improved write-ups of each faction for both the PFS landing page at paizo.com and the Guide to Organized Play. We plan to implement these write-ups by the end of 2014.
  • We will be adding "The Story So Far" type of pages to the PFS landing page at paizo.com. John is assembling a team of writers to help him accomplish this goal for all past seasons. These will be spoiler-lite and help to sum up each season for new and old players alike. The target goal for this is end of February 2015.
  • We will be producing Faction Journal cards, similar to the PAXPort or the quests cards we provide at Gen Con. There will be one Faction Journal card for each of the seven factions.
    • The front of the card will list a series of goals (likely 10) to complete for the current season. These goals will be generic enough that they can be accomplished from playing not just the current season, but past season scenarios as well. For example, the Dark Archive Faction Journal may have one of their 10 goals be to find and recover five named manuals to bring back to the archives in Absalom. These could include the Inward-Facing Circle book from Silent Tide, the dozen black vellum scrolls in Voice in the Void, and any other documents or manuals that are found in sanctioned adventures. Each time you accomplish a goal, the GM will check off or initial a box on that particular goal.
    • The back of the card will include three award thresholds for accomplishing a set number of these goals. For example, if a PC completes three of the 10 goals, they will receive a small favor from their faction or a unique, faction-specific item. If they complete six of the ten goals, they could possibly receive a unique title that provides certain benefits or a better unique faction item. If they complete all 10 of the faction goals, their clout with their faction is sufficent to extend benefits to other PCs at tables where the character is present, while making their presence (and that of their faction) important to every character at the table. As a working example, a Silver Crusade PC who has completed all 10 of her faction's goals on her card might be able to use the her renown to call in a favor and reduce the prestige point cost of any PC's raise dead by 4 so long as she's there to flex her faction's muscles. Although this might not be the reward that appears on the Silver Crusade faction card when we finish this project, it gives a good example of the type of reward we're aiming for.
    • To reward GMs, we are considering adding an 11th optional goal that would be applied to the three different thresholds of rewards. For example, we may list 10 check boxes and for each scenario GMed in the current season, one check box could be completed. Once all ten are filled, one goal toward the a reward threshold would be met, leaving only two more to complete through playing the character.
    • The back of the card will also feature a form of the revised write-up of the faction described in bullet number two above, as well as a summation of season-long goals in descriptive text. This descriptive text will explain why the PC is trying to achieve the 10 goals for the faction and how it will aid the faction in the future—likely in the form of the faction head letters.
    • We realize that we are introducing this half way through the current season so everyone may not be able to complete the card for this season. On day one of Gen Con 2015, no more faction goals may be checked off from the Season 6 card. On the same day, a new Season 7 card will become available that may include a bonus reward depending on if the character completed five or more goals from the previous season. We hope this fresh approach will help to build the excitement in factions for future seasons as we plan to introduce updated faction goal cards every season at Gen Con.
    • These Faction Journal Cards will be provided as a free download on paizo.com, so anyone can print one off for a new or existing character at any time.
    • Every character may have one card assigned to him. If the PC changes factions any time in the future, he would lose all benefits from the card.
    • The Faction Journal card would not override the primary and secondary success conditions set forth in the scenario. Those are still in place to continue enforcing the importance of being a Pathfinder. The Faction Journal card will allow for more depth by adding greater meaning to the factions.
    • Use of the Faction Journal card is optional. A PC never has to take one, use one, or try to complete one.
    • The Faction Journal cards should be available by the end of January.

Scenario Length

Over time, scenarios have become longer, both in terms of word count dedicated to the adventure (rather than to faction missions, for example) and in terms of run-time. To an extent, it's also tied to the increased number of lengthy role-playing scenes and tougher combats intended to match the six-player assumption (i.e. more PCs means more enemies means more time spent in combat). In most circumstances, the longer scenarios are, the harder they are to schedule and run.

We are taking the following steps to address this issue and bring the expected run time (time from mission briefing to the resolution of the final encounter, not including set-up and paperwork) to four hours:

  • Cut one encounter from Tier 5-9 and Tier 7-11 scenarios. These higher-level scenarios run over most often, and it's mostly a matter of high-level combat taking longer.
  • Revise encounter expectations for Tier 3-7 to minimize long, drawn-out encounters resulting from especially high challenge ratings. If necessary, we will cut an encounter from Tier 3-7 scenarios, but preferably these can still work under approximately the same model.
  • There are no changes expected on this front for Tier 1-5 scenarios, which generally fit the four-hour model without much trouble.
  • You should start seeing these changes implemented in scenarios in December 2014 or January 2015.

Scenario Difficulty

We have heard your feedback that scenarios have become harder to just pick up and run. In part this is due to a large number of scenario-specific subsystems that require the GM—and sometimes the players—to learn a new set of rules during the scenario. In part, it's also a result of the reliance on the Pathfinder Reference Document when providing only short stat blocks for encounters. There's also the matter of the increasingly involved stories that scenarios are telling.

We are taking the following steps to mitigate these issues:

  • Provide an appendix that includes the full Bestiary and NPC Codex pages referenced in the adventure as well as an un-tagged copy of any custom maps that appear in the scenario.
  • Cap the number of required GM resources at four books per scenario (including the Core Rulebook). This should be relatively easy if the Bestiary pages are already included in the back of the adventure, as in most cases approximately half of the books referenced are Bestiaries.
  • Include full stat blocks for creatures modified by the advanced, giant, or young simple templates. The exception to this would be modifications that appear in the "Scaling Encounter XYZ" sidebars. For example, if the adventure says that there should be an advanced otyugh, the full stats for an advanced otyugh will be there and ready to go. If the scaling notes say that a four-person group should instead face a young otyugh, those stats would not appear. This should at least cover the essential modifications and reduce the amount of on-the-fly adjustment that a GM needs to do.
  • Limit the number of rules subsystems in scenarios. Subsystems aren't going away entirely, but we need to avoid relying on subsystems and simply save them for the times that they'll have the greatest impact. Should an especially large subsystem such as mass combat appear in a scenario again for whatever reason, it would be advertised on the product page. Simple point-tracking mechanics that only the GM sees (for example, keeping track of how many clues the PCs uncover) are likely to show up a little less often but are still a useful tool.
  • You should start seeing these changes implemented in scenarios in December 2014 or January 2015.

Season Plotline

Over the past four seasons, the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign has based its season-long plotline on the most recent Adventure Path products. In some ways this has worked well due to the new campaign setting content available to players, GMs, and authors, but nearly as often, this decision has caused problems—either by binding the story of the campaign to that of a different product (and the continuity difficulties that can arise), driving the Society to do things that don't necessarily fit its mandate, or subjecting the community to a long storyline when many participants begin losing interest after the first several months. As the list of scenarios grows longer, the list of metaplots grows as well, providing a barrier to newer players getting involved.

To combat these trends, we are taking the following steps:

  • Stop tying the campaign's story to those of the Adventure Paths. Player responses suggest that the Destiny of the Sands model of using a current Adventure Path as inspiration for a three-part series is about right, and even then it's not mandatory that every Adventure Path receives this treatment.
  • Provide Pathfinder Society its own storyline using its own existing plot threads and creating new ones.
  • Expand the number of stand-alone scenarios that explore a wide variety of locations rather than get tied down in one location with an ongoing story that is tough to follow if one misses a few pieces.
  • Provide a "The Story Thus Far" handout that provides a low-spoiler summary of each season's storyline so that a player can quickly catch up on the critical plot concepts when sitting down to an adventure that deals with ongoing metaplot elements. The working length for each handout is about four paragraphs or 300-400 words. There would be one such document for each season and perhaps one for a few of the most complex ongoing metaplots (Grandmaster Torch, for example).
  • You should start seeing these changes implemented at the beginning of Season 7, though some like "The Story Thus Far" handouts are likely to appear sooner.

Quests

From our feedback about the success of the Silverhex Chronicles quest line, we are aware we need more Quests and Quest-like events. Since we already have nine different Beginner Box quests broken up into parts one and two, this was topic was a no brainer.

We have added two Chronicle sheets to the development schedule for the Beginner Box Demos. One will be for the four demos in part one and the other will be for the five demos in part two. These should allow for you to draw more interest from players wanting to try the system out, as well as give you another two sets of quest-style adventures to run, bringing the immediate total of quests to three sets with the inclusion of the Silverhex Chronicles quests. Look for these two Chronicle sheets by the end of 2014.

We have quite a few more changes and additions in the works, and I can't wait to tell you about them. However, some are more ideas than polished action plans, so we need a bit more time to make sure we get the other exciting changes to PFS in order before we release the rest of this information publicly.

As always, we look forward to trying to create the best Organized Play experience we can for all of you. Please read our collected thoughts above and let us know what you think, how we might improve upon the ideas, and what we could change to make them better. Thanks again for being the best fanbase any game company out there has. Without your input, as well as that of the awesome Venture-Officer corp, we certainly could not make PFS the best organized play campaign available anywhere in the world.

Mike Brock
Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Tags: Factions Pathfinder Society Pathfinder Society Quests Pathfinder Society Scenarios Taylor Fischer
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1/5 **

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Victor Zajic wrote:

It would help immensly with problems getting GM volunteers if Full Statblock(of relevant stats, skills they aren't going to possible used don't need included) for every single monster in a scenario were published. PFS is the only living campaign I've ever played in that doesn't have full statblocks of every monster in each adventure, and it's also the only living campaign I've ever played that there is a problem getting judges to volunteer. Rewards can help bribe judges into volunteering, but nothing will help more than removing obstacles to judging, and lack for monster full stat blocks is a big obstacle.

It would increase game quality too. All the time I spend prepping the monsters for a scenario (which is the vast majority of the couple hours I spend prepping for running a game) I could instead spend on getting to know the scenario better and think about ways to provide a better experience for the players.

It would also greatly assist situations where a GM is forced to run something with mimimal prep time. I realize that in PFS games in the areas where the Paizo Staff live are very well organized and this isn't a problem. But it is a very different situation for a large chunk of your players. Sometimes only 4 people show up to an event, and 1 person has already played what you prepped. Sometimes a judge is a no-show at an event and you have to scramble for a replacement. Sometimes someone could be really familiar with a scenario and able to run it with little prep, if only all the material they needed to run it was presented in the scenario itself.

I understand that word count is important, and even if I don't quite understand why, you seem like you are trying to shorten the length of scenarios. If the word count freed up could go towards complete monster stat blocks, it would be greatly appriciated, and immensely helpful. Especially for monsters that aren't in the Beastiary 1, if you have to exclude some statblocks.

All stat blocks, all the time would be fantastic. But allow me to invoke the cliche about not letting the perfect become the enemy of the good. ;-)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I approve these changes.

4/5

Oh Yeah. Can't wait to see these implemented.

3/5

Great update.

... 395 VO's. Wow. I think we've moved from "society" to "army".

-TimD

Grand Lodge 4/5

Bah. That's not even a battalion sized element.

Silver Crusade 2/5

A battalion of leaders? Remember, that's not including us rank-and-file.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

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Victor Zajic wrote:


I realize that in PFS games in the areas where the Paizo Staff live are very well organized and this isn't a problem. But it is a very different situation for a large chunk of your players. Sometimes only 4 people show up to an event, and 1 person has already played what you prepped. Sometimes a judge is a no-show at an event and you have to scramble for a replacement. Sometimes someone could be really familiar with a scenario and able to run it with little prep, if only all the material they needed to run it was presented in the scenario itself.

I've mentioned it on the VC message board so I might as well put a reminder here.

Yes, it's true I schedule 1500+ games over the weekend at Gen Con. But, I've also been a VC and scheduled one table each slot for two slots on a Saturday at Treefort Games in Fayetteville, Ga, for a total of two whopping games over 10 hours on a Saturday for a 14 month period. I also only had one table every Thursday evening at Raven's Nest games in Marietta, GA, for almost nine months. When I wasn't there to GM, the games didn't happen. Ive had nine players show up and only have one GM. I've had to remove a player an uninvite him not to come back because he didn't play well with others. I've had GM's "make the scenario better" which led to a TPKs and had to resolve those issues. I understand all the issues that come with a small venue. I had a player who had played all but three scenarios. He refused to GM anything and b+@*@ed when I didn't schedule something he could play. I understand what all of your concerns are when you are in charge of coordinating a small venue.

John also had experience with similar situations. We understand.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

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TimD wrote:

Great update.

... 395 VO's. Wow. I think we've moved from "society" to "army".

-TimD

It's 400 now.

Grand Lodge 4/5

DesolateHarmony wrote:
A battalion of leaders? Remember, that's not including us rank-and-file.

Hmm, point taken.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

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Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
A battalion of leaders? Remember, that's not including us rank-and-file.
Hmm, point taken.

There are almost 70,000 of the "rank-and-file." I think we need the 400 :-)

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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Michael Brock wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
A battalion of leaders? Remember, that's not including us rank-and-file.
Hmm, point taken.
There are almost 70,000 of the "rank-and-file." I think we need the 400 :-)

At 600 do we post a Charge of the Light Brigade parody poem to the paizo blog?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

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Justin Riddler wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
A battalion of leaders? Remember, that's not including us rank-and-file.
Hmm, point taken.
There are almost 70,000 of the "rank-and-file." I think we need the 400 :-)
At 600 do we post a Charge of the Light Brigade parody poem to the paizo blog?

You write it, I will post it,.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Thank you Mike. Thank you John. I know or at least have an idea of how much both of you have been working on this and will continue to work. We are very very lucky to have you guys in our corner. I know neither of you will be able to pay for a drink in my town as long as I'm around....

Thanks also to all the other folks at Paizo who are always open to listen to their customers and change to meet what we want better than any other game company out there!

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

Thank you Mike, John, and all involved in implementing the changes presented as well as the consideration of all our feedback. Thank you for all you guys do for the campaign. I am excited to see the others coming down the line.

5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for the info. I remember the announcement about the meeting a couple of weeks ago and recently wondering what the outcome was.

Factions: A welcome change, especially the journal cards which will bring some new life into older scenarios. I'm not sure about the "Story so far" idea, I like it but John Compton already appears vastly overworked as there are tons of items on board for sanctioning that still have yet to be approved. One suggestion: please allow the results of the card to be applied retroactively.

Scenario length: This may vary depending on the scenario. I remember a long time ago I was at a table being run by the now VC of Richmond VA. He said that he didn't run optional encounters. I initially thought it lazy until I sat behind the screen. The optionals have no story bearing and worse often come with nasty status ailments. They are generally a big PITA. Suggestion: with the exception of the last encounter, please allow the GM to choose which encounter to exclude to adjust for party composition.

Scenario Difficulty: Funny considering there are GM prep resources out there but not everyone knows about them. Thanks for limiting the rule subsets, there seems to be a new one every scenario these days. Also, a further clarification over what changes or alterations can be made also would help.

Season Plotline: I don't necessarily have a problem with the PFS season to be tied to a current AP. The feeling about the current Season 6/Iron Gods AP seems to be the cause. Lets fact it: this season is a stinker, at least the more "tech" based scenarios. I remember a few weeks ago playing Trial by Machine with a new player at the table playing a 1st level pregen. After it was over I apologized to that player for how badly it turned out. It was clear they didn't have fun at all and hasn't been seen back since. Suggestion: nerf robots, nerf them now, they are bad news for low tier groups, high tier groups should be ready for it

Quests: I love the Beginner Box demo idea. There was a chronicle a long time ago for it when it first came out. Adding new chronicles AND the Silverhex Chronicles AND the 1-2 evergreen scenarios should be great options for new players and should open up a lot of opportunities for conventions and events with new players wanting some exposure the PFS on the spot.


To be honest, none of these are things that would improve the experience for me. What I would most like to see is a removal of the restrictions on races and classes that currently exists. Almost all Paizo races and classes should be allowed. I can see not allowing the really evil ones, since the emphasis is on group play, but there's no reason to remove things like the Tiefling (for example) from the list of allowable classes. Those sorts of artificial limitations just makes me less excited about making new characters and playing in PFS games.

Scarab Sages 1/5

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Michael Brock wrote:
roysier wrote:
Those are nice improvements but what happened to making more playable content? As an experienced player I really only have the new scenarios to play, I already GM 3 to 4 times a month.
Check the second to last paragraph.

This is the best news in the entire article. Our local PFS play is struggling because it is becoming difficult to find scenarios that can draw a full table of people who have not played it yet.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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<---Happy

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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I know you said you are addressing the difficulty of combat in terms of making it easier- could you ALSO release more (and BETTER *sharp glance thrown at bonekeep 3*) "super challenges" like bone keep was supposed to be, for those wishing to be challenged more, as opposed to less? I know that group is likely the minority, but I think should still see a few scenarios a season for that taste!!

This coming from someone whose felt completely unthreatened when playing the storval stairs (on a life oracle in a balanced group, in my GM's/anyone-who-died-in-that-scenario's defense) and regularly has players ask why the combats are so short/easy when GMing *as the stat blocks behaviors specify*.

Also, I think allowing sign-offs on the faction journal retroactively would help a lot! If not for players (they may not have picked up the item , etc) at least for GM's!

Aside from that, this all looks awesome, I'm excited! It's a great time to be a pathfinder :)

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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I have to admit that I'm not too interested in factions gaining more prominence in the campaign. Yet even so, it seems that the plan is intriguing and engaging, while also being totally optional for those of us who can live without the factions and their goodies. Well done. :)

And +1 to the praise of those scenario changes.

Grand Lodge

Woot! Very excited to see the changes.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Efflicted wrote:
I know you said you are addressing the difficulty of combat in terms of making it easier- could you ALSO release more (and BETTER *sharp glance thrown at bonekeep 3*) "super challenges" like bone keep was supposed to be, for those wishing to be challenged more, as opposed to less? I know that group is likely the minority, but I think should still see a few scenarios a season for that taste!!

Are you saying that Bonekeep 3 was too easy? In my experience (GMed it at GenCon), it was an exceptionally challenging scenario to the point of being cruel.

The challenge with high difficulty scenarios like Bonekeep 3 is its reliance on a large number of complicated abilities and tactics to increase the effective challenge. This requires a large amount of prep time to GM properly, and can lead to potentially large variation in difficulty due to GM skill, preparation and tactical acumen.

That said, I personally enjoy the occasional Bonekeep style game from both sides of the table, for the challenge it presents.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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One other thing occurs to me- how will the faction cards be handled for online play? With chronicle sheets, it's mostly one-way transmission (GM to player), but these sound like they'd need back and forth, which could be a nightmare of software and format incompatibility and image degradation and such.

Dataphiles 3/5

A big thank you to the Paizo team for continuing to elevate our organized play experience, and to all the VO's who took the time to assist in this.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Some questions

Will the appendix be extra pages in addition to the rest of the content of the scenario?

Can we update Season 0 to PF from 3.5 like what was done to Mists of Mawangi? Would you like me to summit a revision of Black Waters for you to use?

Is some of the Faction goals on the cards be up to GM feint, or will there be a list? (Much like the secondary condition document)

Can there be some interaction with Factions from module play? Bonekeep? Thornkeep? Emerald Spire?

Should the optional encounters have a change done with their handling with the overall scenario length, and can future Optional Encounters be written in such a way to allow for the PC's to bypass them somehow if played smart?

I like the direction this is going. Hopefully, we won't see another King of the Storval Stairs.

Thank you!!

4/5

I have to agree with Sean about Bonekeep 3. If you are saying it wasn't a challenge, then I am sorry that it was not handled that well for you. My table had a blast, were tested to their limits (they had 2 healers), had NO CHANCE of clearing the dungeon AND had a blast. They were a party of 5 players who built and leveled their characters together and were hardcore powergamers. They added a 6th (Healing Domain Cleric that channeled Negative) and were regularly pumping out 75+ hits and using teamwork feats galore. Prepped and ready short of metagaming, they were killers and still struggled.

So unless you were at one particular table at GenCon, I think that it is unfair to say it was easy. Now, if you were saying it is unbearably hard, well, that's different.

As far as the actual post goes: I am super happy to hear all of this. I think it is a great pile of changes. It also means more level 1 quests that let us get to level 2 without burning up scenarios! (I don't love level 1, not going to lie)

I love the way factions are going to be handled and it just makes me miss my Lantern Lodge even more.

Major changes, but not flip the table changes...the exact kind you want. Keep it fresh and I look forward to seeing what the replay change is!!!

Grand Lodge 4/5

thaX wrote:
Can we update Season 0 to PF from 3.5 like what was done to Mists of Mawangi?

Signs point to yes.

Michael Brock wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

Since you asked... ;-)

Please update the rest of season zero to PFRPG. I know it's a resource constraint issue, but even one scenario a quarter would get us there eventually.

That and conversion document pdf for the 21, 3.5 modules. Check.

The Exchange 1/5

It might be useful to have the monster stat blocks in an appendix to the adventure, rather than with the text. That page can just be text and printed out separately from the adventure to help GMs. a lot of the time the stat block gets spread over two pages.

the Gamemastery Guide has also been used several times as a reference for adversary stats, not just the new NPC Codex.

I like the inclusion of the blank maps that we can print for the players.

I'm not sure the faction change goes far enough. Using the dark archive example, you need to get 10 texts. say you get them. what developments will getting those texts have on the direction of the faction? Sure, I get a reward, but why did they want them in the first place? what is the outcome of getting that goal? Are the scenario reporting information blocks going to have checkboxes to let paizo know how many players get to the 5 or 10 goal benchmark?

I also would not be so harsh about games fitting into the 4 hour block - I would go the opposite direction, and revive the concept of the two-round adventure. To date, only Eyes of the Ten part 1 has been a 2-rounder in PFS. But previous living campaigns used them often.
Some examples of PFS scenarios that could be great two round games - Quest for perfection part III, Assault on the wound, Fate of the Fiend, there's probably many more.

I'd also love to see PFS depart from the simplified XP system and go back to using regular medium track XP rewards. The simplified XP system has given rise to a lot of issues, both perceived and real, in dealing with wealth by level. Change the Tier/sub-tier system to an more reasonable "within one level of the subtier" rule. Currently you have strange results where a level 4 can play down into a level 1-2 game but cannot play up into a 5-6 game. With medium track XP and wealth, playing up or down evens out - you are also getting more XP when you play up to account for getting more wealth, and less XP when you are getting less wealth.

something to keep in mind for season 7.


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I have not played PFS in some months because of my situation with my wife. I am running Rise of the Runelords (AE) and those sessions are enough for her for now. I don't want to wear out her good graces. So I may have missed a few things. The big thing I have not been able to have my primary character Darsadi enjoy: A merchant faction rather than being *forced* to be Sczarni (which as a Varisian she hates with a hatey-hate-hate) or Qadiran. Now she can just be the new merchant faction, which is not yet updated on http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/factions. I can't tell you how pleased I am on her behalf!

That said, in developing material for your faction, *PLEASE for love of Desna have your marketing staff take a look at how each faction leader would "sell" their faction to a local recruit. The early retired scenarios for beginners had the newly minted Pathfinders introduced to each faction's leader. Unfortunately, most of the faction leaders acted like cartoon clowns. If I were inclined to join a given faction, the faction leaders were too busy written as over-hamming it up to introduce themselves as why anyone in their right mind would look to *THEM* as the leader of their faction. Each of those faction leaders should not only introduce themselves at the top of their game, proving *WHY* they are the faction head by being awesome to the new recruits... those faction heads should be able to clearly make a case as to why I should consider being in *their* faction rather than anyone else's.

So have a team of your marketing people "become" each faction head and explain in a half-page or full page document how they got their position, what they are looking for in recruits and what they and their faction can do to benefit the recruit. Don't just give me a set of traits and what classes might find Dark Archive useful, then paste some half-baked wannabe like Zarta at the top. She *played* at being seductive and to me, came off as a clown. On one page, the new leader of Dark Archive scare the hell out of me while still convincing a paladin Dark Archive is the right faction for them. It's a tough call on a single page to do that. That's what good marketing is supposed to be able to do, and if I were to join Dark Archive, I would have the leader that inspires genuine fear while totally seducing with promise of power. Silver Crusade, Grand Lodge... each of them.

I want to bring you new people who have never played PFS or Tabletop RPG's before, have no clue. When they ask, "Which faction is right for me," I don't want to ask them what class they are interested in and help them pick a trait buff that matches the class. What I want to do is have them look over each faction on a page same as they do with the Iconic pregens... you know how awesome and inspiring the artwork for those are? Give me an image of each faction head that demands I follow their leadership! And then you have one page around that image to sell me on playing that faction regardless of race/ class issues where possible. Faction trait bonus yeah-yeah whatever. But who the hell is that tough soldier looking guy (Ambrus Velsin), what is his credibility leading Grand Lodge, and what would he have to say that would inspire me to follow him into the Worldwound and trust him to lead me back out to glory? Patton's Speech as portrayed in the movie. Only have a real marketing person with the chops put it together and have Ambrus Velsin compel me to be in Grand Lodge. Do this with each of your faction leaders.

Because if this "faction business" means anything other than check-marks in boxes and traits on a character sheet, you guys need to do a better job telling me what those factions are really all about in the world of Golarion and within Pathfinder Society, and each faction leader deserves better treatment than being some two-dimensional ham-acting clown.

Anyway, I got that off my chest. I just hope things behind the scenes at home resolve to where my wife and I can get back to regularly playing PFS. I miss that. I miss Darsadi.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Demoyn wrote:
The power creep is definitely the biggest problem I've noticed with society play.

I think you'll enjoy our solution once we finish hammering out the creases.

I'm probably being a worrywart, but that's probably the only part of this that concerns me. Not that I'm saying that power creep can't make things less fun, but the stereotypical response to power creep tends to be removing the responsible resources. And that limits options for those who just want to try to make something that has a reputation for not being as effective. Or those who want to make characters whose goal is to steamroll through combat encounters (although I would argue that PFS isn't the place to pitch nothing but killer builds, but I'm veering off topic).

I hope the solution doesn't end up "punishing" those of us who like new things and different options.

As to the blog post itself, I'm excited to see how it pans out in our friendly local game stores.

Grand Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I so want to make cryptic responses to that, but I'll leave it to Mike and John to reveal as little as they want.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I so want to make cryptic responses to that, but I'll leave it to Mike and John to reveal as little as they want.

I wasn't expecting a response, and to be honest I don't feel like I need one. I just wanted to make my sentiments heard. Beyond that, I will comply with whatever Mike and John deem wise.

But if the answer must be cryptic, I demand it also be in the form of a haiku.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Good stuff, for the most part, but I'll make one suggestion.

I don't like the idea of a two sided faction "card". The fact that everything in Society play can be printed single sided on standard sized paper makes the paperwork easy and straightforward. Please keep it that way.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

I'm just a player (I plan to step up and GM once I have a few more months under my belt) but the new changes sound terrific. I am particularly excited at the chance to do more with our factions.

Thanks for making all these changes -- I think they'll make something I already enjoy even better.

Hmm

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

thaX wrote:

Some questions

Will the appendix be extra pages in addition to the rest of the content of the scenario?

These would be in addition to the normal content, appended between the adventure and the Chronicle sheet.

Quote:
Can we update Season 0 to PF from 3.5 like what was done to Mists of Mawangi? Would you like me to summit a revision of Black Waters for you to use?

Updating those is still something that we have ideas for how to execute. At this time, I am not looking for update proposals or drafts.

Quote:
Is some of the Faction goals on the cards be up to GM feint, or will there be a list? (Much like the secondary condition document)

GM fiat, perhaps? The cards are still being written, but I imagine most of them will have fairly concrete goals with a bit of flexibility built in.

Quote:
Can there be some interaction with Factions from module play? Bonekeep? Thornkeep? Emerald Spire?

Based on the plans for these, there's a good possibility that they could still see play during sanctioned, non-scenario adventures.

Quote:
Should the optional encounters have a change done with their handling with the overall scenario length, and can future Optional Encounters be written in such a way to allow for the PC's to bypass them somehow if played smart?

Including a clever bypass makes the optional encounters a little less optional and more like typical encounters, which sometimes have a "clever bypass" clause.

Quote:
I like the direction this is going. Hopefully, we won't see another King of the Storval Stairs.

I suppose the #4-04 reference could refer to several things, but, um...sure?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Demoyn wrote:
I hope the next announcement is about how gunslingers, swashbucklers, and summoners will not be legal after season 6. The power creep is definitely the biggest problem I've noticed with society play.

gunslingers, and summoners yes, leave swashbucklers alone LOL

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Chernobyl wrote:

I also would not be so harsh about games fitting into the 4 hour block - I would go the opposite direction, and revive the concept of the two-round adventure. To date, only Eyes of the Ten part 1 has been a 2-rounder in PFS. But previous living campaigns used them often.

Some examples of PFS scenarios that could be great two round games - Quest for perfection part III, Assault on the wound, Fate of the Fiend, there's probably many more.

I can see where you're coming from here, but one very important lesson I've learned in co-managing this campaign is that every region (even every event location) is different. Mike and I heard from a very significant portion of the venture-officers that events they oversee take place in settings where going over the 4.5 hour mark is very problematic--to the point of the game just having to stop or not run at all. These include places like game stores that close at 10, but the earliest the community can assemble on that weeknight to play (after work, with traffic) is 6 pm. Reducing the no-paperwork-involved calculation to four hours doesn't perfectly solve that location's problem, but it does give them a very good chance of completing the adventure and not having to skip important parts. The same case is true for conventions that run 4-hour slots, often as a convention-wide policy and not as a Pathfinder Society choice.

There are great roleplaying, story-telling, and encounter-building opportunities involved with extra-long scenarios, yet it's hard to justify creating many of those if (making up a reasonable number based on feedback) half of the players won't have the means to play them. I think doing a two-parter tends to make more sense here.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

Chernobyl wrote:


I'm not sure the faction change goes far enough. Using the dark archive example, you need to get 10 texts. say you get them. what developments will getting those texts have on the direction of the faction? Sure, I get a reward, but why did they want them in the first place? what is the outcome of getting that goal?
.

Fourth bullet point under faction card explanation:

The back of the card will also feature a form of the revised write-up of the faction described in bullet number two above, as well as a summation of season-long goals in descriptive text. This descriptive text will explain why the PC is trying to achieve the 10 goals for the faction and how it will aid the faction in the future—likely in the form of the faction head letters.

The Exchange 1/5

John Compton wrote:
Chernobyl wrote:

I also would not be so harsh about games fitting into the 4 hour block - I would go the opposite direction, and revive the concept of the two-round adventure. To date, only Eyes of the Ten part 1 has been a 2-rounder in PFS. But previous living campaigns used them often.

Some examples of PFS scenarios that could be great two round games - Quest for perfection part III, Assault on the wound, Fate of the Fiend, there's probably many more.

I can see where you're coming from here, but one very important lesson I've learned in co-managing this campaign is that every region (even every event location) is different. Mike and I heard from a very significant portion of the venture-officers that events they oversee take place in settings where going over the 4.5 hour mark is very problematic--to the point of the game just having to stop or not run at all. These include places like game stores that close at 10, but the earliest the community can assemble on that weeknight to play (after work, with traffic) is 6 pm. Reducing the no-paperwork-involved calculation to four hours doesn't perfectly solve that location's problem, but it does give them a very good chance of completing the adventure and not having to skip important parts. The same case is true for conventions that run 4-hour slots, often as a convention-wide policy and not as a Pathfinder Society choice.

There are great roleplaying, story-telling, and encounter-building opportunities involved with extra-long scenarios, yet it's hard to justify creating many of those if (making up a reasonable number based on feedback) half of the players won't have the means to play them. I think doing a two-parter tends to make more sense here.

I played LG for the last 4 years of the campaign, and most of the games we played were at cons or game stores. Two-rounders can easily be scheduled at cons (many are running 3 round modules all day long now anyway) and when we scheduled them at game stores at night, we would simply schedule it for two sessions, one week following the other, or some other arrangement. You just don't play the character in something else until you finish the two-rounder. worked for years, no reason it can't continue to do so.

The Exchange 1/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Chernobyl wrote:


I'm not sure the faction change goes far enough. Using the dark archive example, you need to get 10 texts. say you get them. what developments will getting those texts have on the direction of the faction? Sure, I get a reward, but why did they want them in the first place? what is the outcome of getting that goal?
.

Fourth bullet point under faction card explanation:

The back of the card will also feature a form of the revised write-up of the faction described in bullet number two above, as well as a summation of season-long goals in descriptive text. This descriptive text will explain why the PC is trying to achieve the 10 goals for the faction and how it will aid the faction in the future—likely in the form of the faction head letters.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. I believe you're talking about, is a piece of fluff story we can point to and say, "we did that", and what I'm hoping to see is something that impacts the direction of the campaign. right now it seems that the plot for the season is fixed and the faction stories don't really have anything to do with it. for example the plot for scenario 22 should be based on the outcome of reported results from earlier in the season. or maybe it influences events in the next season. There's no carryover storyline from season to season. The "fiend" series was an example of what that could have been...events from one scenario could influence events in the next scenario in the following season. Right now the "season" concept compresses a story line beginning to end in one season, but the development of the product lead time means that you don't really get much feedback by the time the story is set for scenarios late in the season, and so it appears that we don't get to really influence events much, as a campaign. sorry if I rambled a bit there, but does that make sense?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

Chernobyl wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Chernobyl wrote:


I'm not sure the faction change goes far enough. Using the dark archive example, you need to get 10 texts. say you get them. what developments will getting those texts have on the direction of the faction? Sure, I get a reward, but why did they want them in the first place? what is the outcome of getting that goal?
.

Fourth bullet point under faction card explanation:

The back of the card will also feature a form of the revised write-up of the faction described in bullet number two above, as well as a summation of season-long goals in descriptive text. This descriptive text will explain why the PC is trying to achieve the 10 goals for the faction and how it will aid the faction in the future—likely in the form of the faction head letters.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. I believe you're talking about, is a piece of fluff story we can point to and say, "we did that", and what I'm hoping to see is something that impacts the direction of the campaign. right now it seems that the plot for the season is fixed and the faction stories don't really have anything to do with it. for example the plot for scenario 22 should be based on the outcome of reported results from earlier in the season. or maybe it influences events in the next season. There's no carryover storyline from season to season. The "fiend" series was an example of what that could have been...events from one scenario could influence events in the next scenario in the following season. Right now the "season" concept compresses a story line beginning to end in one season, but the development of the product lead time means that you don't really get much feedback by the time the story is set for scenarios late in the season, and so it appears that we don't get to really influence events much, as a campaign. sorry if I rambled a bit there, but does that make sense?

I will let John address specifics but we have been doing some of that. Tancred Desmire had a continuing story stretching over 2-3 seasons for example. Another is events at the Grand Convocation directly affected the story of a scenario, and that continued story is based on results from what we've seen in reporting.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Fromper wrote:

Good stuff, for the most part, but I'll make one suggestion.

I don't like the idea of a two sided faction "card". The fact that everything in Society play can be printed single sided on standard sized paper makes the paperwork easy and straightforward. Please keep it that way.

I was a little uncertain how this would work as well. I can think of a couple of chronicles that have gone over one page, at which they became two chronicles. I'd suggest that's the right way to think about it. I doubt the typical organiser or player will print it as a "card".

5/5

Starglim wrote:
Fromper wrote:

Good stuff, for the most part, but I'll make one suggestion.

I don't like the idea of a two sided faction "card". The fact that everything in Society play can be printed single sided on standard sized paper makes the paperwork easy and straightforward. Please keep it that way.

I was a little uncertain how this would work as well. I can think of a couple of chronicles that have gone over one page, at which they became two chronicles. I'd suggest that's the right way to think about it. I doubt the typical organiser or player will print it as a "card".

A simple solution - if feasible - would be to make it a single sheet that can be folded over. Really depends how much text is required.

(Personally, I make extensive use of my printer's duplexing functions)

Sovereign Court 3/5

Wow- great work everyone!! Thanks to Paizo and all the officers for the great ideas and improvements!

I'm a huge fan of the 'decisions/outcomes affect the campaign storyline' feature- I just played a scenario with Tancred Desmire, and was immediately pulled back into the story since I felt my actions contributed to a larger set of consequences.

Spoiler:

Aka, I didn't want to let him escape!

Scarab Sages 1/5

Great news!Especially the Factions part! A card could change everything!

2/5 5/5 **

Two thumbs up!

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Great news! Looking forward to the new changes. Good to see factions are back strong!

Mike

Grand Lodge 3/5

HOOAH!

I love the changes.

The only thing I would like to see is more content after 12+. More short modules/scenario's like the final level of The Emerald Spire.

4/5 *

You can't run high-level games in a short time limit... Combats just take too long. There are ways to get to level 20 already through modules and APs, and that list of options grows every 6 months. New scenarios are needed at the low levels constantly, so bumping them for something almost no one will play isn't a wise use of resources.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Love the blog. Most of it sings to me. I noticed changes that some prominent posters have wanted for some time, and that makes me happy.

But (there's always a "but"), the change I was most hoping to read about was nowhere to be found.

Are there plans to release a new retirement arc?

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