Druid AC

I'm about to play a half-orc Druid. I've read Treantmonk's guide and will be focusing on melee. However i'm a bit worried my AC isnt going to scale well with the build. I'm not even going to ask my DM about the shield AC loophole. He'd laugh me out of the group.

At first level my AC is 18 (10 + hide + large shield + 14 DEX). When I begin to wildshape at 4th level my AC drops to 14 (10 +2 Natural Armor +2 DEX). When I get to 6th level and turn into a large animal my AC doesn't change much because the extra natural armor is canceld by the -2 dex penalty and the size penalty.

Of course none of the above takes magic items into account, but i wont have too much control over that and my GM wont have a magic store. So maybe I can get a +1 or a +2 from a ring or bracer. Barkskin can help but i cannot always depend on having it on.

So, how have other druids dealt with such a low AC?

By destroying their enemies utterly before they can be attacked.

By destroying their enemies utterly before they can be attacked.

yeah your not there to soak up damage your there to dish it out.

especally when your moving into larger forms and you taking bigger AC hits your never going to be able to make up for it so don't try.

you'd be better off with e.g. cloak of displacment etc to give you miss chances and the DR you can get from some forms.

If you really want to spend money to fix it

spend a feat on heavy armor and or on shield prof

get wild dragonscale heavy plate +5 and a wild tower shield +5

and then you apply the entire armor and shield bonus while in your shifted form.

but we're talking about +8 equipment so not exactly cheap, (wild is +3)

Heavy armor proficiency, Dwarven stoneplate and boots of springing and striding is an option as well. For instance, you could consider playing a dwarven druid(for the movement and flavor as well) and tanking from the first level. Some GMs might be more open to this than acquiring dragonhide or wyvernhide, since it's not for every campaign to feature dragons or even a city local enough to them to provide such leather. Bullettehide(Classic Monsters Revisited)? Not if the area of adventuring doesn't contain such beasts.

Another option is to fight from the safety of reach. Reach weapons, or just longspear if you don't like taking a Ex. Proficiecy feat, and using summoned critters or another melee type as ablative armor is a sound tactic. Reach foregoes the consideration of AC and is especially effective in the beginning stages of the character's career, with enlarge person and Power Attack possibly ensuring most critters never even full attack you.

Glutton wrote:

By destroying their enemies utterly before they can be attacked.

yeah your not there to soak up damage your there to dish it out.

especally when your moving into larger forms and you taking bigger AC hits your never going to be able to make up for it so don't try.

you'd be better off with e.g. cloak of displacment etc to give you miss chances and the DR you can get from some forms.

If you really want to spend money to fix it

spend a feat on heavy armor and or on shield prof

get wild dragonscale heavy plate +5 and a wild tower shield +5

and then you apply the entire armor and shield bonus while in your shifted form.

but we're talking about +8 equipment so not exactly cheap, (wild is +3)

I thought Dragonhide Plate counted as Hide armor so you didn't need a feat to wear it as a Druid?

Phasics wrote:

Glutton wrote:

By destroying their enemies utterly before they can be attacked.

yeah your not there to soak up damage your there to dish it out.

especally when your moving into larger forms and you taking bigger AC hits your never going to be able to make up for it so don't try.

you'd be better off with e.g. cloak of displacment etc to give you miss chances and the DR you can get from some forms.

If you really want to spend money to fix it

spend a feat on heavy armor and or on shield prof

get wild dragonscale heavy plate +5 and a wild tower shield +5

and then you apply the entire armor and shield bonus while in your shifted form.

but we're talking about +8 equipment so not exactly cheap, (wild is +3)

I thought Dragonhide Plate counted as Hide armor so you didn't need a feat to wear it as a Druid?

you still need the heavy armor feat since dragonscale plate is classed as heavy armor,

"description: This suit of full plate is made of dragonhide, rather than metal, so druids can wear it. It is otherwise identical to masterwork full plate. "

"description: This suit of full plate is made of dragonhide, rather than metal, so druids can wear it. It is otherwise identical to masterwork full plate. "

Alright thanks. That's good to know. Well not so good for my Druid. But still something i needed to know. Thanks :)

my GM wont have a magic store.

Based on the original post, buying wild armor probably won't be possible. Maybe some wild armor will fall from the sky, or maybe it won't. Joe might want to ask the GM if the Craft feats will be banned. If not then it might be worth a feat to be able to make wild armor. I personally prefer crafting Wondrous Items since they fill more roles and a few cheap items can add up to a significant bonus.

Anyhow, the easiest way for a druid to get a better AC is to make friends with a mage. Mage Armor is a 1st level spells and lasts an hour per level. The +4 to AC is pretty nice.

Another way to boost your AC, my personal favorite, is to take a level of Monk. This lets you add your Wisdom mod (which should be high since you're a Druid) to your AC. I'll include some more details as a spoiler in case you're interested.

At low levels (4-5) the problem be solved by a freindly arcane spellcaster casting Mage Armor on you, for a total AC of 18. Not impresive, but useful enough.

At sixth level, Barkskin has a decent enough duration and provides a nice +3 enhancment bonus to natural armor that stacks with the untyped natural armor bonus from wild shape. For a grand total of 21, wich is decent for the level.

By ninth level, if you have taken Craft Magic Weapons and Armor you could craft a wild armor at no risk. Also, you could support your comrades by crafting for then if the feat is taken early.

Also remember that you can cut the cost of enchanting magical items (up to 40% discount) by imposing restrictions on them (see page 549 for details).

You could craft the suit for:

16000 * (1-.40) * 1/2 = 9600 * 1/2 = 4800

It would take you 10 days or 40 if youre adventuring.

Humbly,
Yawar

Also remember that you can cut the cost of enchanting magical items (up to 40% discount) by imposing restrictions on them (see page 549 for details).

I disagree with that interpretation.

It still costs the same amount of gold 1/2 full market value to build a magic item.

by putting restrictions on the item you are simply lowering its new full market value after you've built it meaning it'll seel for less.

For example you craft an item costing you 20'000 to make with 40'000 market value.
If you put use restrictions on the item then it still costs 20'000 to build however it's new market value is only 24'000. so if you tried selling it for 50% of its value you'd only get back 12'000gold

and when you think about adding more magic to an item to add a restriction wouldn't make it cheaper to build, just worth less in the world to sell since fewer people can use it.

Crafting feats should be allowed. I just hate having to waste precious skill points on maxing out spellcraft but maybe i dont have a choice. :(

Potions of Mage Armor or a wand thereof in the hands of a friendly caster.

The Monks ""AC Bonus (Ex)" ability. Any way to swap this out for a cleric or druids Domain ability.

For clerics this would mean they only gain one domain.

For druids this would replace the Nature Bond ability (as if they had selected a cleric domain).

This would allow the cloth wearing priest type to be build, and still have some armor for wading into battles for healing.

This would allow the druid to have better ac in wildshape form, at the expense of an animal companion or spell domain + that 1 extra spell per spell level.

Do you think this would be an equal swap of ability's & power ??

So, how have other druids dealt with such a low AC?

By not having a low AC?

A druid can get a fairly high AC without much trouble. Look into wearing either barding or wild enhanced armor/shields.

Barkskin, as has been mentioned is an awesome spell.

In general Druids have lots of pressures for their 2nd level slots. Consider ways to augment them.

While extend is normally best on a rod, and craft wand for NPCs the druid can prove to be the exception for one of these (or both). Likewise craft wondrous for pearl power 2s (and 1s if you are the party healer) comes into its own.

-James

The Monks ""AC Bonus (Ex)" ability. Any way to swap this out for a cleric or druids Domain ability.

For clerics this would mean they only gain one domain.

For druids this would replace the Nature Bond ability (as if they had selected a cleric domain).

This would allow the cloth wearing priest type to be build, and still have some armor for wading into battles for healing.

This would allow the druid to have better ac in wildshape form, at the expense of an animal companion or spell domain + that 1 extra spell per spell level.

Do you think this would be an equal swap of ability's & power ??

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Druid_Variant

Druid

The druid might choose to give up her wild shape ability in exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter.

Gain: Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger).

Lose: Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions).

For the levels in between early levels where barkskin/mage armour are all you need and you don't quite have the cash to grab wild armour just get some barding made up.

Dragonhide breastplates cost a mere 1400 (2400 for +1 enchantment) and less if you craft it yourself. My current Druid's wildshape form has AC20 (+2 NA, +1 Dex, +6 armour, +1 ench) as standard with AC22 when he pops barkskin on.

This puts him close to fighter level AC right now while still allowing all the full-attack goodness several levels ahead of the curve.

The downside is that you'll want natural spell before you go this route because before then if you wildshape in the middle of combat after a few summons are out you wont benefit from it. So this tactic is a minimum level 5 and is best used for when you have a favoured combat form (Deinonychus at level 5 and Dire Tiger on from 6th).

This should hold you over until you can grab heavy armour proficiency and wild dragonhide fullplate for added insanity. With a little proper planning and thought there is no reason to let your druid be a simple glass cannon.

Just remember that for barding to work it is best to stay in wildshape when you suspect danger is near. If caught off guard and out of armour you can, of course, always fight without it and ask for mage armour on top of your barkskin to get you through it.

Dragonhide breastplates cost a mere 1400 (2400 for +1 enchantment) and less if you craft it yourself. My current Druid's wildshape form has AC20 (+2 NA, +1 Dex, +6 armour, +1 ench) as standard with AC22 when he pops barkskin on.

You don't get the armor bonus unless you add the Wilding (+3 cost) ability to the armor. You do keep any permanent magic items that have constant bonus'. So you get a max of +1 from that armor you just bought. Making you AC 16 (10 +2NA, +1 Dex, +1Ench, +2 NA Ench) You might want to boost you Dex up or think about a level of Monk if you are going to be a wild shaping Druid.

Blech. Screw wildling. Take the cheap route and get barding

Pick a favored combat form: a large cat or if you spend a lot of time in dungeons something medium.

Show up to the armorer in critter form and get the armor made for your best form

Your shapeshift lasts hours. Wake up, shift to combat form, have your party members dress you in the armor.

Your shapeshift lasts hours. Wake up, shift to combat form, have your party members dress you in the armor.

LOL. Thats true, and cool but I can just see them putting a collar, muzzle and pink bows and ribbons on you :)

as for the AC question, wildshape into something small :) and use spells to kill/controle bad guys.

Surprised nobody has mentioned making a set of Ironwood full plate, use wood shape on a large piece of wood and turn into a suit of armor, then the Ironwood spell to make it a set of full plate, which can be worn by druids. Saves all the money to get armor made since you can make it all yourself, and since you can use wood shape to form the armor (it may take a few days depending on how many pieces you DM lets you make at a time with it). Granted Ironwood is a 6th level spell, so gotta wait a bit to be able do it

Gavin Mutter wrote:

Dragonhide breastplates cost a mere 1400 (2400 for +1 enchantment) and less if you craft it yourself. My current Druid's wildshape form has AC20 (+2 NA, +1 Dex, +6 armour, +1 ench) as standard with AC22 when he pops barkskin on.

You don't get the armor bonus unless you add the Wilding (+3 cost) ability to the armor. You do keep any permanent magic items that have constant bonus'. So you get a max of +1 from that armor you just bought. Making you AC 16 (10 +2NA, +1 Dex, +1Ench, +2 NA Ench) You might want to boost you Dex up or think about a level of Monk if you are going to be a wild shaping Druid.

except for armor enchantment bonus as well, so you do not get these unless you take the Wilding (+3) #### + gold ability.

So Dragonhide breastplate in wildshape from provide no bonus to AC, unless it has the Wildling (+3) enchanment added to it.

Ironwood wood armor would have the same problem as well.

Wild armor is for way down the line, once you have 16000 GP lying around. For now, your best bets are:

-Get barding made for your best form
-Barkskin, Cat's Grace
-Ring of Deflection
-Mage Armor, or if you have an alchemist Extract of Shield

If you take a level of monk, then you can't wear armor so you would lower your AC with 20 point buy or just ignore the AC bonus class feature. If you are a dwarf or half-orc with a 13 con, you can take ironhide for +1 natural armor and anyone can take dodge for a bonus. Also, fighting defensively is great to boost your AC for combat, but you can't deal as much damage.

1) Take a level of monk for Wis to AC.
2) Get full dwarven Stoneplate with wild do not worry about heavy armor proficency.
3) Wildshape

You now have an armor bonus but you are NOT wearing armor. No need to worry about armor proficiency and since you are not wearing armor (it was subsumed into your form) you still get your wis to ac as a monk.

Be warned DM's may say this is cheesy and thow there heaviest book at you.

Twizzler wrote:

Gavin Mutter wrote:

Dragonhide breastplates cost a mere 1400 (2400 for +1 enchantment) and less if you craft it yourself. My current Druid's wildshape form has AC20 (+2 NA, +1 Dex, +6 armour, +1 ench) as standard with AC22 when he pops barkskin on.

You don't get the armor bonus unless you add the Wilding (+3 cost) ability to the armor. You do keep any permanent magic items that have constant bonus'. So you get a max of +1 from that armor you just bought. Making you AC 16 (10 +2NA, +1 Dex, +1Ench, +2 NA Ench) You might want to boost you Dex up or think about a level of Monk if you are going to be a wild shaping Druid.

except for armor enchantment bonus as well, so you do not get these unless you take the Wilding (+3) #### + gold ability.

So Dragonhide breastplate in wildshape from provide no bonus to AC, unless it has the Wildling (+3) enchanment added to it.

Ironwood wood armor would have the same problem as well.

Any particular reason for the sudden thread necromancy?

Necromancy on a druid thread :) oh yahhh !

Well might as well, found the tread again while googling. Still looking into a level dip of monk onto a druid.

Elf high dex build with high wis:

-1 level of spell casting is a pain
-1 BAB hurts even more... Ouch :(

What ya get is: Improved unarmed Strike for free and 1d6 damage without a weapon, 1-5th level before wildshape, Dodge bonus feat +1 ac, and +2 on saves.

You also get your wisdom bonus to AC in wildshape. (( Wisdom bonus + Dex bonus (elf) + 1 ac dodge bonus = which carries over into your animal/elemental forms, latter on... even at low to mid levels. (( Touch AC to boot ))

Base without equipment... which varies on DM.
1st level: 10 + 2 wis ac + 3 dex ac + 1 dodge = 16 ac
4th level: 10 + 2 wis ac + 4 dex ac + 1 dodge = 17 ac
8th level: 10 + 3 wis ac + 4 dex ac + 1 dodge = 18 ac ( +22 vs AoO with mobility ).

+ any natural AC granted by Size bonus or Natural armor bonus throw wildshape after 5th level.

One Other advantage: 1-5th level = not armor penalties to str/dex skills, faster movement outside of med armor, and you can use acrobatics checks to avoid AoO.

.............................................

another option if your race give bonus to str instead of dex ( and your pumping up strength while dumping dex ).. good heavy armor proficiency at 3rd level when you can afford dragon hide, get a good shield, ... downside is none of this flips over onto wildshape untill after level 14, which is when you can afford the +3 wild enchantment (+4 really since the armor has to already be enchanted with +1 or better ), ... which is a long journey, if the game last that long ( which many dont).

oh well rambling now... back to search foo online.

Another thing, pick up the Planar Wild Shape feat, this give you Damage Reduction and resistance against some energy attack, futher it scale whit level.

Of course none of the above takes magic items into account, but i wont have too much control over that and my GM wont have a magic store.

Do not play anything but a pure caster under this GM unless it's a Paranoia or Call of Cthulhu style game where failure is a foregone conclusion anyways. Anyone that engages in combat needs full access to the core magic item menu at listed prices to function past the very low levels. Being able to turn gold into bonuses is a core assumption of 3.5/PF and if your GM renders it false all of the balance math completely falls apart.

The only workable combat builds are standard action summon builds (cleric or summoner, though cleric needs feats to get it working and can only standard action summon stuff with an alignment subtype that matches his deity). Since there are no items that buff summons they're balanced the same whether you have items or not.

Joe Bots wrote:

Of course none of the above takes magic items into account, but i wont have too much control over that and my GM wont have a magic store.

Do not play anything but a pure caster under this GM unless it's a Paranoia or Call of Cthulhu style game where failure is a foregone conclusion anyways. Anyone that engages in combat needs full access to the core magic item menu at listed prices to function past the very low levels. Being able to turn gold into bonuses is a core assumption of 3.5/PF and if your GM renders it false all of the balance math completely falls apart.

The only workable combat builds are standard action summon builds (cleric or summoner, though cleric needs feats to get it working and can only standard action summon stuff with an alignment subtype that matches his deity). Since there are no items that buff summons they're balanced the same whether you have items or not.

Whats just wrong! Many setting use 'Low Magic', like Dark Sun, and after my experince they are as much fun to play, as standart Campaigns like Forgotten Realms or the Pathfinder Setting.

At the moment im a player in a Dark Sun campaign, and we are 2 Gladioators, 1 Babarian, 1 Fighter (archer), and a Psionic (Vitalist Healer) and its fun and difrent.