GM Bret's Outpost IV PF2 #2-00 The King in Thorns (Tier 1-2) (Inactive)

Game Master BretI

King in Thorns maps and handouts


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Grand Archive

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NG Male Gutsy Halfling Teacher Investigator (Medic) 5 Surgeon Instructor | HP 51/51 | AC: 22 | F +8 R +13 W +12 | Perc +12 | 25 feet | Class DC 21 |1 Hero point| Exploration Activity: Investigate (Society +13)| Active Investigations: Case of the Jistikan Relic; Case of the Interference| Active Conditions: None

Symeon prefers to think his out. But yes let's not fight unless we hafta.


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Inspire Competence

You spend an action to set it up.
You then use your reaction and roll a Performance check and if you roll a failure, you get a success instead. Nothing is mentioned, so I am guessing this is against the normal DC 20 for attempting to Aid.

So there are 3 possible results:
Crit success +2 to action
Success +1 to action
Crit Failure -1 to action


"Meadow" wrote:
Can we make a check to identify the creatures while we are talking? Also can I hunt prey during these negotiations?

Yes, it would be Nature. There are two different types of creature.

I see no reason to not allow Hunt Prey.

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

Hmm. Ok. I'll wait for others to chime in about Redd using her Inspire Competence. From what I learned in past low tier games, getting a success to aid is hard and screws things up. Buuut, that's meta-gaming!

Redd would love to give it a shot.

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

How deep is the stream on the current map?


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The water on the map is shallow; squares with water are difficult terrain.


Just a quick reminder, you can attempt to boost and pass one of the other aid tokens.

Verdant Wheel

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F Half-elf | Ranger 6 | ◆◇↺ | HP 74/74| AC 24 | F +11 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13 Low light vision | Hero 1/3 | Focus 1/1 | speed 35 |Prey=| conditions:

Redd should try to boost the performancy bard token with a DC 17 perform check.


"Meadow" wrote:
GM Bret wrote:

I don't know why you gave me precision damage twice. I will be using the first of the two rolls.

Sorry. That was me neglecting to delete the second precision roll when copying and pasting Meadow's attacks. I have Quick draw and Hunted Shot

and Silence's attacks in a text file that I just copy and paste when posting.

Please do not delete a dice expression once you've previewed or posted it. Instead just use strikeout to indicate it should be ignored.

[ s ]and[ /s ] without the spaces inside the square brackets gives and.

Verdant Wheel

F Half-elf | Ranger 6 | ◆◇↺ | HP 74/74| AC 24 | F +11 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13 Low light vision | Hero 1/3 | Focus 1/1 | speed 35 |Prey=| conditions:

Oh interesting. I didn't know that you could do that.

Ha! Cool.

Vigilant Seal

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Male Half-Elf Champion (redeemer) 1 (HP: 19/19) (AC:18 [20 with Shield] Fort: +6 Ref: +4 Will: +5) (Perc: +3) (Exploration: Defend)

Sorry I couldn't post yesterday, I returned from work and immediately crashed into my bed. The good news are I can finally access Paizo from my phone again, so posting will hopefully be less erratic from now on!


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The Golden Serpent Maps | Actions: ◆ | ◇ | ↺

---------------------------------------
**AID TOKEN: Provide Knowledge**
**Passing From**: GM Sedoriku
**Passing To**: GM Bret
**Aid Character Name**: Teja Khelledottir
Effect: Gain the benefits of an automatic success on a check to Recall Knowledge.
**Boosted?** No
**Boost Effect**: Gain the benefits of an automatic critical success on a check to Recall Knowledge.
---------------------------------------

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

Do I have to use one of my actions during my turn in the game to pass a token or do I just attempt the roll here in discussion?


You can attempt it either here or Gameplay.

It takes no actions to attempt to boost a token or use it.

Envoy's Alliance

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NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

Well, then. Here's a Timely Inspiration for another table...
Performance: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (13) + 8 = 21

Hooray! They get a boosted effect!


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Passed it along to GM Sedoriku's tier 3-4 table.


M Snowy Owl HP 52/52 | AC 23| F +12 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13

Will Save: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (18) + 6 = 24

okay that's weird. I can post a die roll for him on this tab but when I try in gameplay it just acts as a preview instead of actually posting.


M Snowy Owl HP 52/52 | AC 23| F +12 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13

even weirder. I tried again and added a screech for him and it posted although the die roll changed. Not sure what happened but 11 or 10 either way he failed.

Vigilant Seal

Male Half-Elf Champion (redeemer) 1 (HP: 19/19) (AC:18 [20 with Shield] Fort: +6 Ref: +4 Will: +5) (Perc: +3) (Exploration: Defend)

That would be because it's impossible to post two messages with the exact same text in them in a row; in this case,

Quote:
Will Save: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (11) + 6 = 17

Adding the screech modified the text, so you were good to go. The Paizo forums should really do a better job of communicating this, but at least now you know!

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

Oh! That's what I just did with Redd's re-roll. Damn.


Does Redd have a promotional garment?

Promotional Vestments gives +1 on Hero Point rerolls.

Grand Archive

NG Male Gutsy Halfling Teacher Investigator (Medic) 5 Surgeon Instructor | HP 51/51 | AC: 22 | F +8 R +13 W +12 | Perc +12 | 25 feet | Class DC 21 |1 Hero point| Exploration Activity: Investigate (Society +13)| Active Investigations: Case of the Jistikan Relic; Case of the Interference| Active Conditions: None

Woah when did they change the guide to the new (new?) format? It's nice that everything is getting compiled into one spot but I had not heard they were changing it again.

Envoy's Alliance

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NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---
GM Bret wrote:

Does Redd have a promotional garment?

Promotional Vestments gives +1 on Hero Point rerolls.

Yes. Yes I do. I have 3 of the Scotty's Brewhouse Goblin Ale T-shirts and a couple PF shirts, with another one on the way from OffWorld Designs (They're having a big 50% off sale right now). I even have the boon listed at the bottom of Redd's profile.

I'll take that +1, thank you.


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Oh, nice! I only have one of the Scotty's shirts.

That +1 turns it into a success!

I wouldn't have asked if it hadn't.


Symeon Isafira wrote:
Woah when did they change the guide to the new (new?) format? It's nice that everything is getting compiled into one spot but I had not heard they were changing it again.

I believe most of the changes were location and method for generation. I think there were some clarifications dealing with Downtime. I'm not sure what else has changed.

I'm expecting it will be easier to change now.


Managed to get the post in. Headed to bed now.

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---
GM Bret wrote:


No moving through trees. Those aren’t just stumps, they are trees in a cutaway view.

Did you respond to a post about this on Facebook a month or two ago? I had asked about that map on FB. I had a GM say that they were stumps and I was like "why would a map called 'Deep Forest' be full of just stumps?"

But yeah, everyone agreed on the FB post that they were just cutaways of trees. If they were stumps, they'd be rendered as such.


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Sorry, I don’t spend much time on FB. I didn’t see that discussion.

It is challenging at times to figure out what some of the things on a map are. Given that, it seemed appropriate to tell the players how I interpreted the map.

Fortunately this isn’t a map that mixes stumps in with cut away trees. :)


Taking the discussion of the shield block here because it gets into a bit of rules territory.

Darlann Sacragentum wrote:
My exploration action is Defend, which gives me an automatic raised shield on the first round of combat, unless we didn't technically get to use an exploration action before this combat?

Defend from AoN

DEFEND
EXPLORATION
You move at half your travel speed with your shield raised. If combat breaks out, you gain the benefits of Raising a Shield before your first turn begins.

RAISE A SHIELD [one-action]
Requirements You are wielding a shield.
You position your shield to protect yourself. When you have 8 Raised a Shield, you gain its listed circumstance bonus to AC.
Your shield remains raised until the start of your next turn.

---

I have interpreted this as your shield is raised all the time you are exploring. If you get ambushed, run into a trap, or anything else like that your shield would be added to your AC.

Start of initiative you have the shield raised even though you haven't had an action yet.

When you start your turn the Raise a Shield action would be done. You would need to raise it again if you want the protection.

I might have this wrong, but that is how I have been interpreting the rules.

Vigilant Seal

Male Half-Elf Champion (redeemer) 1 (HP: 19/19) (AC:18 [20 with Shield] Fort: +6 Ref: +4 Will: +5) (Perc: +3) (Exploration: Defend)

Huh, I hadn't even considered that interpretation. That's not how I read it, but I'm also very new to the system. My previous GM seemed to have no problem with my interpretation so I assumed that's the norm, but you're the GM and I accept your interpretation for this table, no problem!

Grand Archive

NG Male Gutsy Halfling Teacher Investigator (Medic) 5 Surgeon Instructor | HP 51/51 | AC: 22 | F +8 R +13 W +12 | Perc +12 | 25 feet | Class DC 21 |1 Hero point| Exploration Activity: Investigate (Society +13)| Active Investigations: Case of the Jistikan Relic; Case of the Interference| Active Conditions: None

Personally I'd agree with GM Bret's interpretation. Raising a shield doesn't last beyond the start of your turn any other round of combat, why would that change for the first?

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---
GM Bret wrote:

The performance check isn't high enough to give a bonus. I will check to see if there is anything against giving aid.

Your encouragement inspires your ally to succeed at a task. This counts as having taken sufficient preparatory actions to Aid your ally on a skill check of your choice, regardless of the circumstances. When you later use the Aid reaction, you can roll Performance instead of the normal skill check, and if you roll a failure, you get a success instead.

Even if i roll a failure, it's still a success. Only a crit failure would be an actual failure.

I found this response in a thread about Inspire Competence.

GM Bret wrote:

Inspire Competence

You spend an action to set it up.
You then use your reaction and roll a Performance check and if you roll a failure, you get a success instead. Nothing is mentioned, so I am guessing this is against the normal DC 20 for attempting to Aid.

So there are 3 possible results:
Crit success +2 to action
Success +1 to action
Crit Failure -1 to action

So, this is partially wrong.

A success or failure is still a +1/success.


Still checking on the Inspire Competence.

It is generally an encounter mode action rather than exploration mode. Things in exploration mode take longer, so I am unsure if the Inspire Competence would be instead of a skill check or not, my inclination is since it is only one action you should be able to do both.

As for my summary, please read it more carefully. I said that a failure counted as a success, which is why I did not list failure as a possible outcome.

I did get that wrong when in Gameplay, but the +1 for that and +1 for maps was not enough to push it to a critical success.

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

Ah. Ok. Yeah, sorry for going a bit overboard on that. I forgot about exploration or encounter modes.


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I wouldn’t say you went overboard. I want people to be able to discuss things here in a reasonable and polite manner.


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So everyone must attempt the checks for these skill challenges since there is a consequence for critical failure.

I am going to allow Redd to Inspire Competence one chararacter for each segment provided she either does it before they roll or they spoiler their roll. I will wait to resolve checks until we know who (if anyone) she is inspiring.

The group is basically moving very slowly as people try their activities and Redd continually casts a spell while also doing her activity.

Verdant Wheel

F Half-elf | Ranger 6 | ◆◇↺ | HP 74/74| AC 24 | F +11 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13 Low light vision | Hero 1/3 | Focus 1/1 | speed 35 |Prey=| conditions:

It just occurred to me. Have we gotten any hero points yet?


Yes.

I tend to award hero points between encounters,

When playing in real time, they are supposed to be given out about once per hour. The schedule for the special figures an hour as approximately 10 days of PbP.

Expect the next hero points after about:
March 8th (20 days), may delay to March 10th when we start part 2
March 18th (30 days), still in part 2
March 28th (40 days), in part 3

The special is scheduled to conclude on April 2nd.


So the blue circle is still difficult terrain.

You may need to move it to the side in order to move your avatar. If you do, just move it to the side and then move it back after you've moved your avatar.


In case it wasn't clear, the mud creature is immune to bleed.

Since it is immune to bleed, I do not think it takes the Dazzled condition.

Grand Archive

NG Male Gutsy Halfling Teacher Investigator (Medic) 5 Surgeon Instructor | HP 51/51 | AC: 22 | F +8 R +13 W +12 | Perc +12 | 25 feet | Class DC 21 |1 Hero point| Exploration Activity: Investigate (Society +13)| Active Investigations: Case of the Jistikan Relic; Case of the Interference| Active Conditions: None

Don't quite have time to formulate a post, but I did move the blue circle to the layer right above the map, it shouldn't affect tokens anymore.

Verdant Wheel

F Half-elf | Ranger 6 | ◆◇↺ | HP 74/74| AC 24 | F +11 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13 Low light vision | Hero 1/3 | Focus 1/1 | speed 35 |Prey=| conditions:
GM Bret wrote:

In case it wasn't clear, the mud creature is immune to bleed.

Since it is immune to bleed, I do not think it takes the Dazzled condition.

That is correct. No bleed means no dazzled.

Verdant Wheel

F Half-elf | Ranger 6 | ◆◇↺ | HP 74/74| AC 24 | F +11 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13 Low light vision | Hero 1/3 | Focus 1/1 | speed 35 |Prey=| conditions:

Is the mud guy immune to flanking? It probably doesn't matter but Krek should have gotten a +2 for flanking with Silence making the bad guy flat footed.


No, it isn't immune to flanking.

I had not seen what you had done there. When this was pointed out, I had to check the rules and think about it for a while.

In my opinion, when an animal is ordered to attack it will take the most direct path to the target. If you want to get them to flank, it takes two commands: move to waypoint, attack. The waypoint it chosen so that the animal taking a direct path would end up in flanking position.

Some animals naturally flank their prey. This is represented in a different way. If you look at the Bestiary entry for wolf as an example, it has a special ability:
Pack Attack The wolf's Strikes deal 1d4 extra damage to creatures within reach of at least two of the wolf's allies.

Strangely enough, they chose to leave that off the wolf animal companion.

Looking at the support activities of the various animal companions, a couple of them have as their support activities the ability to make the target flat footed.

Cat
Support Benefit Your cat throws your enemies off-balance when you create an opening. Until the start of your next turn, your Strikes that deal damage to a creature within your cat's reach make the target flat-footed until the end of your next turn.

Dramaosaur
Support Benefit Your raptor constantly darts into flanking position. Until the start of your next turn, it counts as being in its space or an empty space of your choice within 10 feet when determining whether you and your companion are flanking; you can choose a different space for each of your attacks.

I expect that you will see some variation with different GMs on this point. Some will allow you to have the creatures naturally flank, others will require you to set it up. The rules give a list of commands that animals can understand, but do not limit commands to exactly that list. They do say:
"Most animals understand only the simplest instructions, so you might be able to instruct your animal to move to a certain square but not dictate a specific path to get there, or command it to attack a certain creature but not to make its attack nonlethal. The GM decides the specifics of the action your animal uses."

In my opinion, the animals take a direct path to their targets. If you want to flank, set it up by issuing two commands.

Please adjust Silence's position to one of the squares that would have been on a direct path to the mudwretch.

Grand Archive

NG Male Gutsy Halfling Teacher Investigator (Medic) 5 Surgeon Instructor | HP 51/51 | AC: 22 | F +8 R +13 W +12 | Perc +12 | 25 feet | Class DC 21 |1 Hero point| Exploration Activity: Investigate (Society +13)| Active Investigations: Case of the Jistikan Relic; Case of the Interference| Active Conditions: None

Could she not command Silence to go to the square where he would then be flanking? There's little functional differnce between ordering Silence to go to a waypoint square at point X away from the thing it is attacking and then to point Y that is in flanking and from just going to point Y directly unless the animal couldn't reach point Y to begin with.

Animal Companions don't follow the usual rule for Command an Animal. They gain two actions for one use of their Command an Animal without a chance for failure. I could see an argument for that action only being one, simple command (such as 'support' 'move there' or 'attack') and the animal then does what it needs to to accomplish that, such as moving to a creature it's not adjacent to, and does so in the way that is most natural to it. However, I could also see a character and their companion having trained together for combat, (represented by not needing to roll nature to begin with and giving two actions instead of one) and could do two commands at once ('move there and attack' 'trip and attack', 'move and support.') I guess this is something very open to GM interpretation as the rules are not clear nor explicitly defined, but requiring two turns (as a minion cannot get more than two actions a turn and thus a second command in the same turn would be a waste) to get an animal into flanking feels limiting.

Verdant Wheel

F Half-elf | Ranger 6 | ◆◇↺ | HP 74/74| AC 24 | F +11 R +14 W +13 | Perception +13 Low light vision | Hero 1/3 | Focus 1/1 | speed 35 |Prey=| conditions:

Animal companions are minions so when I use Command an Animal, Silence does two things. I've always envisioned it as he goes where I indicate (stride) and does what I tell him (strike or support). I also assume that the animal moves in a direct line from where he is to where I indicate although since Silence can fly I assume he flies over most obstacles like that rock rather than go around.


I spent about 4 hours today researching the animal companion rules and rules for commanding animals before posting the opinion above.

It is getting late so a reply will need to wait until tomorrow. I will think about what the two of you have said, but there is also the point that allowing a creature to automatically flank takes away somewhat from the cat animal companion.

Are there rules for working with an animal companion other than in the animal companion area, the Nature skill under Command an Animal, and the small section that gives general rules for minions?

Envoy's Alliance

NG fem halfling | Bard (maestro) 4 | Emissary | HP 42/42 | AC 20 | F +7, R +11, W +9 | Perc +9 (low-light) | +2 Seek | Stealth +9 |Low-light vision | speed 25' | Spells: cantrips/5, 1st/3, 2nd/3 | Focus pts. 2 | Hero Pts. 2/2 | Explore Mode: search +8 | Active Conditions: ---

I would recommend using one, or all, of those special abilities we got (animals help flank and the like) since we'll be moving on to part 2 soon.

Horizon Hunters

Hobgoblin| HP 113/113 | AC: 26 (27 w/ shield) | F: +15 R: +12, W: +10 | Perception: +12 (Darkvision) | Default Exploration: Defend

I think you have found all of the areas Bret. This has definitely gone both ways in discussion on several different servers.

It all comes down to the communication aspect. While you issue a Verbal command to the minion per the minion rules it doesn't necessarily speak the same language or understand the intent because of that.

While you command it to attack the animal companion, summon, or familiar (Since they are all minion traits) is going to likely bee-line for an attack and not necessarily circle around for a flank.

Now if you spoke the same language that might be different.


Redd Appleblossom wrote:
I would recommend using one, or all, of those special abilities we got (animals help flank and the like) since we'll be moving on to part 2 soon.

The abilities can carry forward into Part 2.

You might want to use them so you can finish the current battle in Part 1, but if you don’t they will carry forward.

Looks like it would be helpful to have something to remind people they are available. If someone wants to add a new slide for this, that would be great. Otherwise I will see what I can do later.

——

Thanks for the feedback on handling of the animal companion.

I will say that my concerns are those of game balance. Allowing the owl to be able to freely flank cuts into the support abilities of two other animals and is very powerful. I have used three actions as a wizard summoning just to give a round of flanking to another character. It is really easy to kill summoned creatures.

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