WotW: A Knot of Thorns The Second Parchment

Game Master Xzaral

Way of the Wicked by Fire Mountain Games

Roll20

Battlemat


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HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

Playing as our minions and building our own dungeon sounds really fun. If the mechanical systems to model it are good, I'd love it.


King of Talingarde

I just sent everyone a link to the WotW version of the organization rules via PM. If you have any issues viewing it, let me know please.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

Looking over the rules, my first thought is that the charts seem to reduce what would otherwise be great scenes, roleplaying moments or encounters down to "spend some villain points, roll a dice", which is a shame.

You're right about them being heavily slanted towards Charisma. We're a charisma heavy party, so that's good for us, but it does leave Cain in the lurch a bit. Also, the entry requirement for this sub-system is the Leadership feat. Not everyone has a spare feat in their build. I have been planning on taking it since day one, but again, Cain is feat-starved as is. He seems like he'll be the odd man out since he would have to burn a feat he doesn't have just to play the mini-game at a less-than-ideal capacity.

Also, Xanos can flat out ignore a lot of the minion rules since his will be undead. No feeding, housing, arguments, executions for incompetence, infighting or coup attempts. Given how Xanos tends to operate, I can see him pretty easily bypassing any and all mechanical complications the system tries to hoist upon him.

I love the idea of what the rules represent, but I think the presentation and execution of those rules would get in the way of what they are trying to accomplish. A cursory scan shows me two ways I'm pretty sure we could min-max things. I caught them because I was thinking about the things I was thinking about trying, and now I feel like I should avoid those options so as not to seem like I'm just being a wanker (more than usually anyway).

I think I'd like to cast my official vote for a more free-form system that uses these rules as a springboard for ideas but allows us more freedom in our choices and better opportunities to roleplay our way in and out of the situations the rolls represent.

If we decide to send a bunch of minions on a caper to rob a rich merchant, I don't want to do math and roll a survivability dice, I want to play the scene as our minions. I want to make a new alias for my new skeletal champion and spend a week being a bruiser for a change of pace. I want to develop our minions personalities instead of reducing them to numbers.

Basically I want to min max the fun quotient, not the organization bonuses.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

The sheer brutality of this encounter actually made me laugh out loud. Well done people.


Apparently i had a post eaten.

Xanos is right about Cain getting the short end of the stick if we go with the WotW rules. It'll mean his little organization will be a slow starter. Though, to be honest, I didn't create him to be a leader. If we went that direction, I could just make a small team that's basically all muscle... they'd generally lay low until one of you guys wanted more muscle for a week or whatever.

Taking Leadership would be painful, but again, if it's what people want to do, I'll be fine with it.

I guess my point is, I don't have a heavy preference in this instance. I don't want to end up being left out, but I also don't mind working from a disadvantage. Cain gets to play the role of a heavy-hitter during our main questing, so if I become a bit secondary in this organizational stuff, I can abide.


Secondarily, I've kind of planted the seeds of Cain's organization with the alchemist guy from Aldencross. whatever direction we go, I'm likely to keep that component and build on it... finding and recruiting lycans to create one big pack. :D


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

Normally, I'd be happy to offer a firm opinion on how I'd like to play the 'org building' angle of the game. Unfortunately, in this case, I really have no preference. I could be content with Mark handwaving the whole thing or having us build our networks step by step.

Fundamentally, I'm really enjoying Price and I'm delighted to play her - either at a tactical level or building a network of spies and saboteurs. Therefore, I'm going to throw my 'vote' to Mark. Mark, what is your preference?

Oh, and if needed, I could certainly allocate a feat to Leadership. I've got a few uncommitted spots - particularly the one at L7 - where it could fit.


Male Half Elf (AC: 15|11|14 - For:+4 | Rex:+3| Wil:+5- Per:+2Init:+3)

I am now leaning more toward roll playing stuff. I like the organization rules and Fargo has plenty of charisma. That said, the feat would hurt and Fargo is not much of a leader, high charisma non withstanding. I see him more as a very high end minion himself. He does not have the overarching goals that many of the rest of the crew have. He is more motivated by the desire to have people he sees as friends around him and to make the rest of the world miserable.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

It's good to have simple motivations. :)


King of Talingarde

Sorry, busy two days.

If we do go with those rules, I'll also discuss leadership with you all. Since the story kind of wants you to have the organization, I have no problem with simply stating you all have leadership as far as minions are concerned. I might give different bonuses, or control over a cohort type dealies. I wouldn't require the feat to have the organization thoguh.


Outsider (AC: 22|12|20- For:+5| Rex:+6| Wil:+7- Per:+2Init:+3)
Xanos said wrote:
It's good to have simple motivations. :)

As one who is probably thinking what a good minion Teon would make I am sure you think so.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning
Teon wrote:
Xanos said wrote:
It's good to have simple motivations. :)
As one who is probably thinking what a good minion Teon is I am sure you think so.

Fixed that for you ;)

More seriously, Xanos actually has extremely simple motivations. He just has complicated methods.


Percep +4. Init +8 -- Hp 50/50. AC 18, t12, ff16. Fort+4, Ref+4, Will+6
Cain, the beast! wrote:
Should I be waiting for Alaric and Shulme to post to move things forward with Cain?

Nope!


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

OK, if I'm reading the map right, here is the immediate opposition:

Door to the Keep - 2 Guards
@ #23 (left-most) - 2 Guards
Keep Roof - 3 Guards
@ #24 parapet to gatehouse - 2 Guards
Gatehouse Roof - 4 Guards

From where we are at, if we leave the building and head to the Gatehouse via the parapet... we'll likely be in sight of the 2 guards at the door to the keep and possibly one on the Keep Roof. From there we go to the parapet where we have to pass two guards and will be seen by possibly two guys on the Gatehouse roof.

Unless we want to radically change the plan, here is my suggestion. We act as guards passing through the circular tower. We head up to the parapet, hopefully drawing no attention from the door guards, and head over to the two parapet guards. I try to bluff them into following us into the Gatehouse (out of sight of those roof guards). We kill them and anyone else we find. From there, we'll see if we have to raid the roof first or drop down to the lower level. At some point our luck will run out and things will get 'interesting'. Thoughts?

I know some folks are in favor of trying to stealth-butcher the Heroes in the Keep. I understand the appeal of the idea :D but I'm unsure whether it is the wisest course given our objectives. But I'll go with the majority vote. I would say that if we want to try that - we should take the place from the Keep Roof and work down through it - hopefully bypassing the majority of guards and catching the Heroes with their pants down. I know, there are risks to that. But I'm willing to bet Teon and Xanos can take the roof without those guys getting off warnings. This approach would have the element of surprise and if things went wrong, we'd still have an exit.

The other option would be a two-pronged attack - with Teon and Xanos flying in and working down the Keep while the other team hits it from the bottom and works its way up.


King of Talingarde

Just let me know which plan you decide to do.

Also Teon, if you decide to sabotage some siege weaponry, give me some idea how. (for exmpale, disable device or Teon smash)


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

I can't really go anywhere until these birds are animated, and I can't kill them all quietly. It is going to draw attention when I do my thing.

If you want us to take the roof, its going to come at the cost of alerting the whole fort that something is wrong.


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

I'm just throwing out a possibility. I'm not invested in the idea and I'm happy to continue with our initial plan - i.e. we go scampering across the parapet and get to work on the Gatehouse while Xanos cooks some poultry loudly. :)

I just wanted to give folks a chance to amend the plan now that we know where all the guards are sitting.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

However you want to do it is fine with me. My part of the plan is pretty much the same either way, it's just a matter of when.

Either you take the gatehouse without alerting anyone, and then I get everyone's attention, or I do it to draw focus away from you because your cover was blown somehow. Either way I'm doing the same thing.


Male Half Elf (AC: 15|11|14 - For:+4 | Rex:+3| Wil:+5- Per:+2Init:+3)

Tell Teon what you want him to do in character. I had thought about it but it is not something he would think of. If you want Teon could spend a couple of rounds buffing himself then he could take out the roof of the gatehouse.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

Has Teon given a report of what he's seen from the air?


Male Half Elf (AC: 15|11|14 - For:+4 | Rex:+3| Wil:+5- Per:+2Init:+3)

Just the soldiers I think


King of Talingarde

You can see the siege weaponry, if you'd like to report it as well. The keep is just taller than the tower


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Sorry for yet another delay on my part... sometimes work sucks.


King of Talingarde

I must concur on the work sucking part. Real life gets us all!

I'll respond to stuff tonight.


YOU CAN DO IT!

FIGHT THE FIGHT!

EXCLAMATION!


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

Price is my hero. :)


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

lol

:curtsies:

Thank you, kind sir.


That was a nice move.


King of Talingarde

Just to mention it, the ones that have little fireball symbols on them are burning.


King of Talingarde

Just to mention it, the ones that have little fireball symbols on them are burning. It's in the top right corner of the square if you're not sure which target it is.


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

Cute! They're like little flaming candles on Price's birthday cake. :D


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

OK, gents... let's have no more whiffs in the surprise or any other rounds, please!


King of Talingarde

Definitely having some bad dice, Shulme. Seems to be happening this weekend.


So do we think we've lost Alaric ... been a while since he's posted.


King of Talingarde

I sent him a PM a few days ago, and followed up in some of his other games. Doesn't look like he's been on. Hopefully everything's okay. But it is a possibility. If someone wants to take control of him temporarily, please do so for us to keep pushing on.

Either way I'll update tonight (and get to Teon's 2nd DD check which I missed!).


Hmm ... hope all's well with him.


Male Half Elf (AC: 15|11|14 - For:+4 | Rex:+3| Wil:+5- Per:+2Init:+3)

I hope he shows up again. I was looking forward to Fargo hating and him and butting heads.


King of Talingarde

Sorry about taking so long guys. Updates are up.


King of Talingarde

All right, apologies time.

I have been lax in my posting as of late and just want to explain why. A few weeks ago I found out some possibly bad health related news of myself (nothing life threatening). I was supposed to go get some blood work drawn on it. I instead chose to follow the most mature approach of skipping my appointment and trying to ignore it. The fun part is I've been becoming more and more depressed on it, and that always ends up in a spiral out of control and has affected everything I do (PBP included). So I'm picking up the pieces of what I've screwed up and moving on with things. I'll be rescheduling my appointment tomorrow.

As far as my games go, I'm not giving them up because of the depression. That would be giving in. I'm going to be getting in my updates tonight and getting them moving again and keeping them moving. I'm sorry for my sporadic posting and hope you guys will forgive me.


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

Stop beating yourself up, man, life will do that to you more than enough. Take care of yourself and hopefully that will end your funk spiral. If you need a hiatus, just let us know.


King of Talingarde

I thought about a hiatus, and ultimately what I feel I need is to stop feeling sorry for myself. Getting this appointment out of the way will help. There's other things I'm dealing with too that have contributed. I've been in a new town since April, and working 50-60 hour weeks minimum (frequently enough more). I knew when I took the position I was walking into a mess, and have been straightening that out since I started here. Most of the major concerns are out of the way, but it's amazing the little things that can be wrong you don't even notice until you have to deal with it. Because of the schedule though, I haven't found lot of time to get to know local people outside of work and since I'm a type of management I don't hangout with other employees outside of company functions. This weekend there's a gameday at a gamestore (also I finally found a gamestore locally!) so I think I might head there and see what's going on there. And I'll be heading home for Thanksgiving, which will help out as well.

And I could go on and on with my troubles, but everyone's got some :P I just need to stop the self-pity and get my life back on track. Besides we're dealing with an assault on Balentyne here! It'll be fun, hehehe.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

Hang in there. Health comes first. We can wait as long as we have to.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

real life is calling me away before I can finish the write up for the birds' stats and their orders. I'll have time for it tomorrow night.

The gist of the orders is, burn the barracks, and then move onto other wooden structures. Avoid getting into a cluster, and try to keep at least 30 feet away from anyone wearing a prominent holy symbol. Everyone else (our party excepted), burn.


Male Half Elf (AC: 15|11|14 - For:+4 | Rex:+3| Wil:+5- Per:+2Init:+3)

Do what you need to do. That said sounds like you know what you need to do.


Percep +4. Init +8 -- Hp 50/50. AC 18, t12, ff16. Fort+4, Ref+4, Will+6

I hope things ease up for you soon Mark.

I have good news and bad news. I will be in the backcountry for a week starting tomorrow. No posting after today until I return. Please feel free to NPC Shulme as necessary.

However orchard peak season is over and when I return I will have a lot more time and attention free.


Take care of yourself, Xzaral. And let us know if we can do anything to help.


HP 27/35, Temp HP 0, 3 str damage, AC: 11, Fort +02/ Ref +2 / Will +6, Perception:+5 Channel 8/8, Bolster 8/8, Infernal Healing 50/50, Command Undead 50/50. Active Effects: Fox's Cunning

Ravens are normally 1/8 hit dice. The Bloody and Burning templates add 1/8 of a hit dice to their total. (The Fast template just requires that Haste be cast with the animation)

Each Raven counts as 3/8 of a hit dice for the purposes of animation.

I am able to raise 10 hit dice at a time, so I've just raised and controlled 26 Ravens.

The ravens standing orders and stats will be in the Unkindness alias soon.


Ok, all done, and this isn't going to work.

Ravens make terrible zombies. They lose weapon finesse, and gain none of the usual zombie bonuses to AC and Slam attack from size, so their attacks are pitiful. They lose their ranks in Fly and have their fly rank dropped to Clumsy, so it takes them quite a while just to turn around.

Their saving grace is that they're damn near impossible to kill, and can swarm for huge fire damage. (4 Tiny creatures can share a space, and anything within 5 feet takes damage from their aura, so these guys can land all around a medium creature and deal 26d6 fire damage at the start of that creatures turn)

Edit: On reflection, this seems a little silly on both ends. To tiny attack, and way too big aura damage. Their stats as they stand make them into reusable missiles more than anything else. I'm going to try to think of something to fix this.


I think I got it! Rather than worrying about the number of individual ravens, I think it would work better to treat them as a Swarm.

I can raise up to 10 HD total. I propose treating the birds either as a single 10 HD swarm, or as five 2HD swarms.

Their attacks would auto-hit, but their overlapping auras would do much less damage.

Thoughts?

Preferences on one big swarm vs a few small ones? ( a group of small ones is actually more powerful in this instance)


HP 21 | AC/T/FF 14/12/12 | CMD 17 | F+3 / R+3 / W+8 | Init +6; PER +10 | Image

OK, guys, how do we want to play it from here?

Here are some options/thoughts:

1. If anyone escapes from the flaming poultry in the barracks, it will likely be through the door we couldn't lock (to 14) and then they can take the ceiling opening into the upper chapel (26). So it might be a good idea for Xanos as he moves out to Wizard Lock the chapel door (outside 26) or something equally amusing... to keep the soldiers and low-level priests locked up and meat for the flaming ravens. At the very least, if they can ignite the pews, things should stay interesting, even if they don't want to face off against the Priests.

2. If possible, I think it would be grand if we could turn the catapults or whatnot around from the Gatehouse and use them to hammer the central keep. If we can wreck the building or at least collapse the front door area, that will slow down the leadership.

3. It seems like we have a couple fundamental choice here.
(a) We can open the front gate and disable the winches so they can't be closed again, OR
(b) We leave the gates closed for the moment, hoping to avoid drawing an all out rush of good guys when they realise their main line of defense is gone.

Choice 2 related to this is:
(a) We either hunker down and fight a defensive battle from the Gatehouse (aside from leading with the catapults), OR
(b) We go aggressive and storm the keep trying to waste the leadership before they can organize, rally the troops, and bring that stinking Wizard to bear on us.

Based on our choices here, obviously, we'll figure out where Xanos/Teon should jump in.

Thoughts? Have I missed any considerations?

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