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I'm not entirely sure there are written rules on saving throws while asleep. Reflex would absolutely be an auto-fail, fortitude I would think would be rolled normally since it's not dependent upon reaction times, just how tough you naturally are.
Will saves, well, I would still allow a roll but probably at a penalty? While asleep your subconscious is dominant and you don't have the mental control to actively resist spells and effects, but you could argue that your mind could still recognize an outside stimulus or a suggestion outside the norm and so you could still get some kind of a roll, just not your max roll.
Barring a written rule that's about the best I could suggest.
Reflex would not be an auto-fail while asleep. You can be tied down to a table, in the middle of a 5' wide, 5'long room, and by RAW you would still get to make a saving throw against a Fireball. Reflex saves seem to be much more then just dodging away from an attack. It also contains more then a little luck.
Your Dexterity would be treated as 0, though, so you would lose any Dex bonus you have to Reflex saves, and take a -5 penalty on top of that.
Sleeping character makes a saving throws normally. By RAW Reflex saves are still made but person asleep is helpless and has effective Dexterity of 0 so the Reflex saving throw gets -5 modifier in place of regular Dexterity modifier. While it might seem strange at first it is important to remember that saving throws represent not only active resistance but also the sheer luck.
Fortitude and Will saving throws are made normally (but there could be potentially special abilities and effects that interact with sleep). Note that spells marked as harmless allow making saving throw if the target desires so but it is not automatic so most of the time it is assumed that sleeping creature does not resist the spell.
Reflex saves seem to be much more then just dodging away from an attack. It also contains more then a little luck.
Then again, being snatched (as per the feat) will nix your Reflex Saves vs. that creature's breath attacks.
Talk about consistency.
Then again, being snatched (as per the feat) will nix your Reflex Saves vs. that creature's breath attacks.
Talk about consistency.
Yeah, well, not everything makes sense. But still, its very specifically called out in the Snatch feat that the Reflex save is denied. If something removes your ability to make a saving throw, it would say so. By default, you always get a save.
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They actually have a point. Nowhere does it say sleeping denies you a reflex save. The Reflex Saving Throw section states the save tests your ability to dodge area attacks and unexpected situations. If you're asleep or helpless you can't even move let alone dodge. I'd still auto-fail it but aside from that there's no definitive support for it.
They actually have a point. Nowhere does it say sleeping denies you a reflex save. The Reflex Saving Throw section states the save tests your ability to dodge area attacks and unexpected situations. If you're asleep or helpless you can't even move let alone dodge. I'd still auto-fail it but aside from that there's no definitive support for it.
edit in progress
after edit:
By RAW even unattended magical object get reflex saves, and they can 't move.
If you are paralyzed or helpless you get a -5 penalty to your dex modifier. That means a -5 to your reflex save. The save does not just represent your ability to move, but luck also.
Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier).
By the rules you apply the modifier to the reflex saving throw.
Dexterity: Damage to your Dexterity score causes you to take penalties on Dexterity-based skill checks, ranged attack rolls, initiative checks, and Reflex saving throws. The penalty also applies to your Armor Class, your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Tiny or smaller), and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.
