The Red Hand of Doom (Inactive)

Game Master The Dragon

Map of southern Isger
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OK GM. What class would you like to see alongside gunslinger? And when you made this AP, what classes did you envision for it?

I know its a rather blunt question, and obviously some of the answers won't work but it would likely help.

Finally Pelius Pindleloric is ready for service.

I did not filled all his priest spell-slots, but I'll do it asap if I get into the game.

Added Pelius familiar, Jailmaster!!

Kyras Lorach wrote:

OK GM. What class would you like to see alongside gunslinger? And when you made this AP, what classes did you envision for it?

I know its a rather blunt question, and obviously some of the answers won't work but it would likely help.

Ranger is a good class, I think you should go for it. I missed that you'd decided on ranger when you posted, for some reason. It's a perfect blend for your character, what with his outdoorsy scout deal.

Huh. That is a fairly blunt question. I'll be avoiding it and say instead that the AP sits in a weird place - it's extremely classical in its themes and style, yet has guns all over the place.

I didn't envision any particular classes for it, but if you dropped Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas and Gandalf in there they wouldn't seem that out of place. Except for the gun thing, of course. That was mostly because I don't see many games around here that incorporates them as something that wasn't just tacked on at the end, so I thought I'd put it in here.

But that's the beauty of RPGs - I'm not the ones making the characters for my adventure, so you'll make something, and I'm sure there'll wind up being 4 submissions that are absolutely right for the game, even though I didn't have them in mind when I made it up.

You asked earlier what you did to bring in so many monks... and I think the answer to that is 'support gunslinger'. :) People are probably looking at gunslinger almost immediately, as it's so uncommon to get to use it, and it's a wisdom secondary, and who needs wisdom..?

One other thing to look at is how much wisdom seems to be fitting into builds as well.

I looked at it as an opportunity to build an Andoren character pursuing Andoran's interests. :)

That being said... Here is Aidan

I'd like to apply alongside Pathfinder Zoey's submission once she finishes up. :)

Mhmm. And if you want to do something unarmored (like how Andoran's military is in all the artwork you get, even though they have those almost anime-like big swords), then monk is a way to do that.

Plus, it lets you actually defend against touch attacks.

Apply alongside Zoey as in if you she doesn't get picked, you don't want to either and vice-versa?

Correct, both or neither. :) I probably should have asked if you were okay with that, before. :P

Yeah. I'll only pick you if I both characters rank in top 4 of 'apps I like', of course, but I see no reason why that wouldn't be okay to ask.

I like the Deaf curse, used it for an Oracle of the Black Butterfly I never got to use, unfortunately. I might make him again for a campaign some time. But yeah, some of the curses are ridiculous in one form or another.

It's a very weird mechanic - I don't quite think the various writers agree if it ought to be mostly a detriment, mostly a boon (lame and friends) or if it should be a fluffy roleplaying aspect that lends flavor to the character. (e.g. haunted, tongues)

I think literally being unable to take 10 is kind of a detriment.

Maybe so. I personally don't use it much, but that might just be me being a poor optimizer.

I feel so vanilla *lawls* oracles,curses, and guns.... and i just make a druid/ranger.

Here's the updated Andulian Vogh for appreciation :) I hope you guys like the backstory and all. Feedback is welcome!

:P Don't worry, Celenil. All I've got to show for my time is a Solar Kineticist. :) Bask in my 5 minutes per day glow. :)

I think the biggest problem is in the varying degrees of how easy it is to ignore your penalty, moreso than anything else. Deafness is very hard to overcome, while Lame is as simple as 'buy a riding dog or two, and a sled'. Likewise, the benefits are very, very varied. Compare 'immune to fatigue' to 'you are less penalized by your complete inability to hear'. (though scent, tremorsense and always on silent spell are pretty nifty)

you know... I think I may keep Kyras as an inquisitor. I like to push the mold of classes and I think it can have some good potential. An Inquisitor Caydean Calian is quite the oddity no?

He doesn't route out/hunt down cleric/followers of X evil faith, but instead judges and punishes those that use laws for evil, and to control people or oppress them. This fits the character for several reasons-

1. He was trained by the church, so having inquisitorial abilities fits, it is after all what they indoctrinated him for.

2. good or ill, he was raised in a very disciplined, and rigid country, he can't argue that laws can be good things.

3. However, he knows the danger of laws, and to his shock still he finds himself despising those that abuse the power of law, or use it to control others lives or remove their personal freedoms.

4. He's been a bit too lucky... gotta have someone up their lookin' out for em right?

5. and Lastly, He just isn't particularly a "nature type", he gets along well enough, but he doesn't "get it" the way rangers and druids do.

I love it when picking a class helps to solidify a characters personality and background.

Ah ridding dogs and sled. I did the stalwart defender before that rode around on a chariot so he could stay in defensive stance. Good times.

Will have Al Sa-Her backstory done today.

As far as appearance goes, after spending a ridiculous amount of free time combing the web for an image that fit, I gave up finding one that showed his weaponry too. I even looked into Anime and found crap all. So, the following is what he LOOKS like, just pretend the weapon isn't their, or better yet, it that it is replaced with this one- His Musket


Then add this Hat here.

I am also surprised to see no paladin/Mysterious Stranger builds haha.

Also, GM, I'm asking for a homebrew change to an archetype (minor) I was wondering if you would let the musket master ability (Fast Musket) replace the deed Pistol Whip instead of Utility shot. Mostly because I find Utility shot to be incredibly fun tool that would certainly fit my characters some what show offy attitude.

I think I may go sanctified slayer route so instead of "Judgements", which is wholly religious in idea (even in courts), it can be a subconscious/conscious thing almost. Then again... judgements can be used in the same way, with a "How dare you, you will pay" sorta feel to it.... decisions decisions. Every time I find an answer/decide one thing, another 3 pop up haha. Hopefully that means I'll have a very well represented character at the end.

I usually build the mechanics first, then work on a backstory. This backstory then makes me change the mechanics to fit the story. The revisions to the mechanics then modify the story. And back and forth. sometimes for days. Often, my character muse will have an idea at 2 in the morning and refuse to let me sleep until I do something with it.

curses, foiled again!:
The sled and dogs is a limited solution. As you level up, the dogs quickly become targets. Either for direct attacks or area attacks. so you need to invest in movement stuff eventually.

Another way to deal with part of the issue with deafness is to have your party invest in sign language. We did that for one party, but we would have done that anyway as it was a group focusing on stealth. Requirements to get in were: Darkvision, stealth synergy, and sign language.

Haunted does have a big limit - you can't easily expand your combat repertoire with wands and scrolls and potions and metamagic rods, etc.

I did that at first way back when as well, however, coming from a MMO/RPG background I had a tendency back when to min/max a lot. I have found that, looking over the classes and determining "I'd like to play one of these" be it one class, or potential 1 or 3, then making the backstory helps me reign that MMO player in. As after I've written the story and personality I can easily make mechanical decisions based on the character itself rather than numbers. It also allows me to polish the character up a bit with "Oh, that ability is cool... wait I could totally work that in like this!" which fleshes the character out more.

on curses:

you could potentially take the beast master ranger(or druid, or hunter), and split your animal companion levels among 2-3 dogs for your sled team. Suddenly they are much more durable.


But taking out the dogs typically requires action economy to do, and as you level you can invest in stronger beasts of burden, that take more economy to handle, so on and so forth. Dogs were just a suggestion; a horse is normal, a tiger could totally be a thing. I'd kind of want to do lame with a smaller character if I were being gamy, just because 'I have a riding dog!' is amazing all by itself. (If very, very cost prohibitive.)

As for the deafness thing, Sign Language helps about as much as Read Lips. The real penalties are in not being able to hear what's on the other side of the door. Not being able to hear that clicking sound behind you. Not being able to be woken from sleep except with a swift kick. Deafness is huge.

Haunted's limitation is solved by keeping what you use on your belt; it opens you up to sunder and the like, but once again, that's action economy. Destroying a wand is actually a lot harder than you'd, unless you make them all 'wooden sticks'. Previously (I think it was responded to in a thread) you could also just spend 2k gold on a bag that hands you stuff so you don't have to worry about it, and the bag is already a good investment. It -does- mess with your action economy of dropping things, though. But if you're dropping a wand in mid combat pretty consistently, eventually a goblin is gonna snatch it and run off anyway. :P

I kind of feel like Haunted doesn't really affect you as long as you pick spells that are useful in combat, and rely on scrolls and wands outside of combat, where the economy impacts are greatly reduced. I really, really feel like haunted is among the three 'cheapest' curses to buy into. But the benefits are minor... and I do like it a lot for the roleplaying aspect. :)

For me, it's pretty organic as well. I look at the setting that it's going to be in; the more information I have, the more I can do. I then focus on what I feel the group needs; this is much harder online, when you can't really choose, and one of the reasons I really liked the wrath of the righteous setup; pick one, go for it. It's a lot easier to sell yourself when you're defining how you fulfill your role.

Next, figure out something you want to play within that role, and make sure it meshes well (I'm having trouble with that last part; with everyone being lawful neutral in the nation that focuses on good and freedom, playing gunslinging monks, and folks from (And working for) Cheliax who are somehow involved in an expansion against Cheliax, it's a little difficult to get an antislaver to fit conceptually into the group).

I try to set up major story points, and try to explain where each of their skills come from, building the character somewhat organically, X because Y, Y because Z... so on and so forth. I have a lot easier of a time with characters I can build around a partial theme. This character was no exception. :)

The Dragon wrote:
Maybe so. I personally don't use it much, but that might just be me being a poor optimizer.

A lot of checks are pretty trivial due to being able to take 10.

Climb checks and swim checks in particular.

updated with more fluff and a pretty much finished crunch section.

also, Hotaru, if you and I are both lucky enough to be selected, Kyras is very much a "good over law" guy and would actually consider it an honor to work with an agent that used to free slaves! NG, freedom loving, opinionated and a showboat haha. He just reeks of Andoran vibes.


Yeah, I could never convince myself to take the deaf curse, it is actually one of the few I consider to be a "curse" with little benefit compared to its hindrances. SO much potential for things to go horribly wrong, plus, it all but eliminates your character from the night watch rotation.

As a GM, I'd probably pull haunted maneuvers of stuff even if you had them on your belt. I haven't had to deal with it, and not exactly sure how I'd go about it but their are ways!

also, if all you do is take a riding dog as a lame oracle, I'll be happy. It means you aren't going barb after :P

Edit: Also, where is Isger in Andoran? I can't find it on the map. Where is it located?

Backstory added to profile. Thanks for the consideration :)

Isger isn't in Andoran. If you go west from Andoran, you'll find Cheliax. On the border though, north of the Aspodell mountains, there is Isger. It's a seperate state, but the official Golarion fluff has it that it's sort of a vassal state.

I've changed it around a bit so it's a buffer state who hasn't got much in the way of indepence, mostly being there so Cheliax and Andoran don't have to share a border.


I've been working on the backstory and character for Tamara, but it's not quite where I want it to be yet. Is there any elements in particular you would like to see? Are you going to work of plot hooks we include or are you pretty much going to "follow the script"? In my experience having the right players can be even more important for a game than the right characters. That's much harder to judge beforehand though. Hopefully she'll be good enough to make it into the coveted top 4. Her concept is simple enough. A gun-magican striving for self-improvement to inspire and lead others by setting a good example. The execution is a bit more complex though. She's definitely more of a magican than a gun-wielder though.

If I see some plothooks that make me go "Yeah, that'd fit in right there" then I'll modify the game to build off of it.

Please feel free to get any plothook from my background! I created the "Corner Flies" as a big hook anyway, hehe. By the way, if anyone wants to talk about tying backgrounds (after the GM made his choices, obviously) please feel free to contact me! I love a well built world.

When I build characters, my normal approach is to go surfing the rules looking for cool. First is whatever few ideas I get from reading the intro paragraphs; A goblin wielding a scythe would be cool here!, How about an old prophet that thinks the world is going to end?, I could make a pretty rad gunslinger that loves noise here, or, I betchya I could create a converted Claptrap, and it would be epic!
Next, I start reading the rules looking for supporting ideas. A half-orc can sunder REALLY well, Race Builder allows XXX and YYY, an Aberrant Aegis or Synthisest can allow me to build up a unique body, That human fighter gives me enough feats that I need at first level to do ZZZ!, This Archetype lets my do that? Neat!
During this time, I usually am working on how the character would sound/act in my head. Trying to flesh out and sell the character to myself first, then later put it onto paper.
Lastly, is usually the backstory and fluff. Aside from a few ideas in my head, actually writing the fluff and backstory is the hardest part for me, so it usually gets delayed until later.
Next (so I guess absolute last) comes revisions, Went with bard instead of sorcerer, swapped out this feat. Wrote about this ability in his history, gave him this item in his past. and Items are almost universally ignored until absolutely necessary XD

This Character was a bit different as I had already built up a huge chunk of him up before, for other campaigns. His backstory was 60-75% done already, so i worked on that first :)

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And thus we come upon the half-way point for recruitment. One week left, I'll make decisions on next tuesday.

@Gobo: I really, really want to play a Claptrap Percussionist Bard that hits himself to inspire his team. That is all.

Liberty's Edge

Here is my proposal: Johannes "Panzer" Schneider

Hotaru of the Society wrote:
@Gobo: I really, really want to play a Claptrap Percussionist Bard that hits himself to inspire his team. That is all.


I have played a Claptrap Archivist/Mindchemist who truly was a know-it-all and absolutely loved explosives. He would carry around sticks of dynamite "just in case" and used blasting caps as alarm clocks. He was about as bat-crazy and glitchy as I could get away with, and absolutely one of my favorite characters :)
Edit: oh ya! He once used a fallen cargo hold from a spaceship as an impromptu cannon by dropping one side of the shields and rigging the engines to blow XD blew apart half of a gang of bandits!
2 other Claptraps that I had built but not played were an experimental gunsmith with a keg of blackpowder on his back and a scratch built ammo feed leading from it into a chaingun, and another was a lightning sorcerer who used his own glitches and internal circuitry to cast Spells XD
Next idea is to play him in a "nearly gods" campaign where he finally managed to create the biggest boom in history by blowing up Pandora and turning it into a second sun, thrus ascending XD

If you want the stats and writeup I have done for the Claptraps, just ask :)

Edit: aw heck, spread the metal love :)
here is the most recent revision


Feth wrote:

•••• • •-•• •-•• --- •-•-•

Hello to you too ;)

Huh. Weren't there a submission here just a minute ago?

I've been having a better look at the Gunslinger/Stalker build, and oh my are there some fun things you can do with it. Teleport around the battlefield, do your touch attack against flat footed enemies, get a guaranteed crit with a x4 modifier and a shitload of bonus damage, then vanish into smoke, incorporeality or the Etheral plane. You can recreate the lobby scene from the Matrix with this build.

Playing as the dragon Caurast is still slightly cooler, but it's close.

@Game Master the Dragon: yes there was, an ifrit bard/swashbuckler...

I can't remember ever having as much problems finding proper pictures for my character. I've literally spent several hours looking now... Usually I manage to find at least one picture that fits very well. Her face is something like this while her general outlook is more like this or this(though I don't like using this picture as it might give unwanted associations). She also got several tattoos, most noticable is probably the one around her eyes(symbolizing identify), then a Mage's Tattoo on her upper back and one symbolizing invisibility on her lower back

Tamara Hart is finally done. I hope you like her :). I didn't pick a character for lovesick as that'll depend on who else are selected. Hopefully there will be someone willing and fitting for that. If there aren't anyone fitting would it be fine to change it to Naive? I hope I get to play with lovesick though, I think it'll add a nice extra dimension to RP. If you have any questions or things you would like me to change please ask.

For party role Tamara is primarily an arcane spellcaster, though she got good defenses and decent backup damage with her gun as well.

Game Master the Dragon wrote:
Huh. Weren't there a submission here just a minute ago?

Yes, it looks like my post was eaten by the system. This is Dumah, the submission for markofbane. He's an Ifrit Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade)/Bard (Arcane Duelist). His crunch and background are in the profile.

@OyzarL How do you feel about interspecies romance with a dragon? Once you go scale, you'll never bail! :p

In all seriousness, it would be amusing, and it'd give Caurast a nice IC excuse to pick up that humanform ability, but I'm not sure how realistic it would be given that Caurast is probably a bit too much of a jerk for a paladin. (I'm required to make a willsave not to bully weaker creatures if it benefits him). It might be nice RP for him to get over that... but that'd result in a lengthy (1 day/level) period of being out of comission, then turning into another type of dragon. And since my most important feat requires an acid breath weapon, which no lawful good dragons have, and I don't really see Caurast turning Chaotic good all of the sudden... So even without the dragon-bit, only pick Caurast if you'd like to RP a really complicated relationship :p

I think human-dragon relationships in general are actually quite cool. However their differences probably makes things too difficult. I could see it working if you switched to a good dragon, but that would as you say either require a time-consuming transformation or a complete rework of your character. I think a relationship with a LN character could definitely work, but your character's views of those less powerful than him makes things difficult.

I'm quite curious what Game Master the Dragon thinks about Tamara, but I understand that he might not want to read through everything/give feedback before he starts working on the selection process.

I added a small "Inspiration" section to the profile. Not too big, but just to give an idea in his personality and all. :)


I'm quite interested, and will start sorting through some character ideas ASAP. I'll admit, so far I've only read the first and last pages of this thread (I'm still at work); is there anything vital I've missed in the middle?

Later on,
Ghorrin Redblade

We use partial base attack and saves progression, (don't worry about it if you're only taking two classes), and you can't gain more than 2000gp by pre-game crafting. (i.e. if you craft 4000gp worth of stuff you'll start with 12500gp worth of stuff, if you craft 6000gp worth of items you'll also only start with 12500gp worth.)

I think that about covers it. I also allow people to use the pre-errata material from the Advanced Class Guide, except for Divine Protection.

Going to withdraw thanks for the consideration and good luck to everyone

Hey there.
My idea. Since at work and cant read through everything
Either half drow or full drow
Rogue/fighter going for "pain taster" PrC

Just want to know if this will fly. Will be at home tomorrow. So will have access to pc and herolab to make character

Preferably half-drow. Looks good otherwise.

Will we be using background skills? And will we be able to retrain feats

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