Storm of Sinners

Game Master BayouSnowman

Pop question for whoever takes over next, is this an acceptable piece of Signature wargear?

Mastercrafted Ceremonial sword with Toxic quality. 10 req +10 Toxic for total of 20 requisition (For purposes of Signature Wargear Master talent).
Cavarrus crystals are a unique formation that appears on its home planet. It is an organic crystal, which means that it continues to build up on its form over time so long as it is exposed to fluids and minerals. It is highly toxic, with pieces of the crystal flaking off into wounds and dissolving in the blood, further damaging their bodily organs. The constant growth of the crystal however, ensures that it never chips permanently, and can even repair itself from destroyed shards, though it must be maintained often. This particular sword is one handed down to Ikwa by his Chapter Master in recognition of his efforts. It is a short blade just longer than the Apothecary's forearm, but the formation of the crystal ensures that its edge is always sharp enough to cut through ceramite,
Gives +10 to weapon attack rolls.

Also, any way it can be further upgraded?

Too much to quote and repost here, so I'll just use your "points of contention" as a guideline.

First point: You grouped a few things here, so I'll try to explain myself. Much of my thoughts hinged on a few key things and if they don't stand, then not much point in discussing the other things.

I agree that the words hit and damage aren't the same and was unsure of the intention behind the authors. Thus I've tried to figure out how it would best work in the game. You've repeatedly stated that the action and damage would be guaranteed and powerful, but that isn't the case, hence our discussion and probably the most important part of the debate, for here is where things either fall in line for one of our sides. If its an inherent ability, not dependent on the WP of another, then I could channel that additional force at will. The rules arent there, I concede. But then they aren't very clear, even with the errata. How does choosing to make the additional FP test at different levels affect the damage? If its opposed WP then that easy, but how does choosing a certain level affect things? Does the FP test determine the PR bonus of the weapon or is it always present?

If the PR bonus added to force weapons is dependent on the level of the PR of m focus power test then I agree and see how you came to your conclusion, but you didn't make that argument and its not clearly made or explained in Core or the errata. If the bonus is my PR, not the PR of the Focus power test, then what I've been saying is possible. Still, I think it exist and even if its has to be manifested by a focus power test, I don't see why it couldn't affect objects with no WP. There has to be some effect if not the one outlined in the book.

Also the "Killing Will" is only part of the description, its also channeling psychic force, which has influenced more of my view than yours. It's an opposed WP test vs the subject. Also with new errata rules, they made it a FP power test too, that can be at 3 levels and determine the strenght of the attack. Yes its deadly and powerful, but not without its risks of Psy Phen and Perils of the Warp.

I've not done outside research and can't speak to what has been determined or generally agreed upon, I tend to work thins out with those around me, rules are a guide line and if they don't make sense, why follow them. Hopefully we can make some sense of them that is balanced and fair. Trying to be objective, its something that would apply to any force weapon, not only Castils. Also he won't be a PC if I GM, I'd probably keep him aside for another game or until another GM rotates in.

On your second point, you merely claimed that because they are separate then it must not be the same manifestation, but that's not consistent. My meaning is that if you are "channeling" physic force or adding "killing will" its merely an increase in the strength and focus of the power that is already affecting the weapon. That weapon's additional PR damage and penetratoin addition aren't dependent on a WP test or the object of an attack to be alive.

How is it that they could be anything but the same?

Point 3:
Here I'm with you for all of your examples, but as we know, there are many exceptions to rules and blanketed rules that later get edited or not. Some things they do rule (FFG) isn't always adopted or agreed upon by everyone on the community. SO any arguements about why its always been that way or its written that way so we should follow it aren't convincing.

Most rules are fine and I can't think of something I've had this much debate over, but I feel I have genuine questions and I'm just not satisfied with group think. I appreciate your attempt at explaining yourself and the issue, even if we don't agree, I'm glad we can discuss this.

Back to the point, I don't see a reason, other than a written ruling about opposed test, which are always true, except maybe in this instance. Channeling additional force into the sword, not Killing will, should be achievable regardless of their ability to resist. If I add the FP test, then my DOS could add additional damage and equal risk of consequence.

How much does this affect the game? Besides me cutting down trees and searing through doors like I got a lightsaber, it could be determined that vehicles use the WP of the pilot to resist the onslaught. Otherwise, it would be some slice and dice if he succeeds on the WP test, and doesn't blow himself up or summon a daemon prince. Even the test could have a modifier.

Just because it isn't, doesn't mean its not a good reason to start. If its really a bad idea, then I wouldn't be making this argument and if you can articulate a good reason why it shouldn't be, then I will concede. I think my thoughts on how we should shape policy are inline with your fourth point on "fluff supports x."

I'm trying to imagine how this would affect the game and if its unbalancing then it shouldn't be done, glad we are working and thinking it out, as we've seen before, my thought process isn't always correct (The storm bolter math equations anyone?)Still, I think we could work it out to be fair and make sense, even if that's just clarifying the existing rules more clearly.

You only seem to concentrate on the "killing will" part of the description, while I've heavily focused on the first part:
"as a Free Action, channel psychic force and killing will into the blade." To me, the psychic force that is transferred to the blade residually or otherwise, affect beings and objects regardless of WP. If I were to channel that force and make it greater, could I not do that? I think the opposed WP test is there to allow the target to ignore as much as possible, if not resist the additional force of the Warp, but I don't think its necessary for the object to have a WP in order to be affected. That is limiting to me and contradictory, as I damage armor with the weapon, why not a vehicle, door, or weapon? This could be the one exception to the rule and just because its not, doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Even if it's only triggered after I deal "damage" how many things that I could swing at wouldn't be damaged? I think in the rare instances where i couldn't cut through the hull of raider the GM could rule its impossible and/or would take longer than using a proper tool for the job.

The Psy powers that increase strength and hence Damage bonus are applied without a WP test. There is inherent damage and effects of the warp that don't require opposed WP test to be affected by. If I can enhance the damage my body deals without the target needing a WP or being allowed an opposed test, why am I not allowed to do that with my force sword?

To me, if you're unable to enhance the strength or channel more force into it its not really such a powerful weapon and entirely depends on the level of the wielder vs target and WP stats. The weapon is not as strong or as dangerous as some other master crafted weapons and chapter relics. The only things more powerful for librarians are stuff for grey knights, off limits. Lots of other weapons that deal more damage and have special effects that deal those damage with no risk and without fail. Lastly, unable to access the site you linked, some things blocked behind the Great Fire Wall of China.

So, I'm willing to go along with the ruling that an opponent must be damaged to activate the ability, but I don't think that I shouldn't be allowed something versus objects without a WP. Maybe the effect is measured/determined differently, but I truly believe mechanically speaking its would make sense for there to be some effect.

Deductive and inductive logic. Often coming to the same conclusion, just from a different direction.

Alright, to make it easier to follow my reply I will again nest my reply in spoilers:

I love your line by line. Reminds me of cx debate. Wish I could have been as presentable as you, but I'll try to be precise in my last rebuttal.

You are correct about what the books say are the rules. To me some things didn't fit and caused me to question the entirety, as that is how I examined it. The inconsistencies gave me doubts and questions. Thanks for taking working it out, though I wish others could've weighed in. I often don't take the perspective of GM into consideration, but I have begun and offered some role suggestions for my alternative framework. My argument questions the ruling itself, not its existence. Just because it's so, doesn't make it always right.

To me, the argument, that's what the book says aren't enough, but that isn't objective enough I suppose for our immediate purpose. Keep in mind these same debates happen until an errata and then the next, etc is published and/or flushed out in a newer game's books. So for the sake of whoever GMs we'll follow these rules here.

If a killing force test caused psy phenomenon or perils, which resolves first? Does the attack and power from DOS still deal damage if applicable or would the effect resolve before the additional damage is dealt.

As for the FP test to trigger it, which can be done at 3 levels, the only benefit from them would be the +5 bonus to FP tests per level of PR? Is that correct? Just trying to see how things would resolve before they do, as that was the first time this mission I swung my sword. Probably not going to try this either, but I need to be clear on how it would resolve.

Like I said at the outset, my main goal is to show that these are not my "house rules" but are instead how the rules function. Luckily, since we are winding down I shouldn't have to nest anymore.

My argument questions the ruling itself, not its existence. Just because it's so, doesn't make it always right.

I understand. However, I personally do not have disagreement with how the rule for Force Weapons work (which is likely evident by my previous statements).

If a killing force test caused psy phenomenon or perils, which resolves first? Does the attack and power from DOS still deal damage if applicable or would the effect resolve before the additional damage is dealt.

From what I can tell on pg 186 of the core book, the effects of a psychic manifestation occur before Phenomenon or Perils. Cause and effect.

As for the FP test to trigger it, which can be done at 3 levels, the only benefit from them would be the +5 bonus to FP tests per level of PR? Is that correct?

Yes. Killing Will receives its bonus damage from DoS, not PR.

Is everyone still a go for me to run a mission? Just wondering time frame so we can have a smooth transition with as little down time as possible, give people chance to finish up what parts of the story we can, I could try to incorporate something into my story if it fits. Guess depends mostly on Spooks.

Can I get a current player count, who wants on the next mission. I'll try to get everyone, but if it's more than 6, I might need to set a cut off point, just want to be fair to everyone and not spread my time too thin.

I'm in!

Brother Hammern is ready!

I'm interested.

I think we have 7 currently, 8 if Hallan were to make an appearance.

I'm ready, thanks for stepping in.

Mission 6a - The Stygian Crossroads

Primary Objective: Seize the Stygian Crossroads - Success
Secondary Objective: Ensure the Guardsmen Suffer Minimal Casualties - Success
Tertiary Objective: Show the rebels the futility of their insolence, destroy as much of their force as possible - 98/100

ADDITIONAL OBJECTIVES - Turning Point
Tertiary Objective: Rescue the Thunderhawk pilot - Success
Secondary Objective: Assault the Manufactorum - 70/100

XP from Objectives: 1775
XP from Encounters: 2030
Renown: 4 +2 (Fighting beside a Contemptor Relic)

HONORABLE MENTIONS
Best Roleplayer: is awarded to Brother Vartas for excellence in command. Vartas constantly approached the situation with the mindset of a commanding officer, seeking the input of his subordinates when necessary and making sure his brothers fell in line when they started getting ornery. He continues to display an excellent Ultramarine mindset, seeking to better himself even when not away on mission.
Best Kill: is awarded to Brother Castil for smoking one of the rebels in the pickup truck near the beginning of the mission and then again later for turning a bionically enhanced Ogryn into jelly in a single blow by way of his Killing Will.
Best Use of a Fate Point: is awarded to Brother Zedkiel for when he dodged the psionic blast from Olid in the bunker. Obviously he would have been annihilated had the attack hit, but the fact that Olid exploded as a result of that same attack made it that much more dramatic.

Please also vote for MVP

Does anyone have 3 or more honorable mentions as a result of these rewards?

I hope we "vote for MVP" by saying a name here and why, if it should've been done otherwise, apologies, this'll be my first completed mission with you guys.

I'm voting Vartas. He managed and led teams in multiple areas with complex forces and tasks. He was open to suggestion, adaptive to situations, delegated and trusting of his brothers. All the qualities of a good leader and person.

So far, we got Sumantra, Zedkiel, Hammern, Vartas, and Spooks for sure.

Elyas? Invictus?

I'm gonna cap it here for the start. If others want to join later, might try to write them in as others fade. 5 is enough, hopefully Elyas and Invictus join in.

We'll finish up here and give others a little more time to join and spend xp. Give me a shout Spooks when you're wrapped up and when others will be ready for the new mission briefing.

I saw a few PC questions that still need resolved from the new folks. I'll try to get to that, but my initial thought was not a yes. I'd rather give you a chance to play and for me to see your PC before you try and take such a signature weapon that'll likely be your go to for the game. If its more in line with a single weapon in another book, any of which I'm open too, then we can chat.

Sumantra, not sure if Spooks spoke to you or not about your profile, but there are some concerns I've got.

You may only have 2 Signature Wargears, the Master replaces your regular. Not sure how you ended up with 4 items.

Did yo roll randomly for your chapter? Seems like you took and combined a lot of some of the best stuff and maybe even made up some of your own? That's cool and fine, love the creativity, but it needs to be balanced. I know you made great effort in your background to include some items and that helps justify them.

How does the Chapter Trapping you have work? You want to use it's Psyn of 20 with your percepton to detect warp activity? Then you got "Gorilla Training" which is huge, I've only seen in one chapter and quite a bit of the history and lore is explaining that part of their training and way of life. Then you have the "ceremonial" sword, which is often a trapping itself I think, and then adding toxic quality to it. Its a cool idea, reminds me of the swords in Rogue Trader from some world that are made of crystal that have the same properties as your sword, without the toxic part. We'll have to work on that weapon and its profile if you want it, as well as its costs. If you're set on starting it, then it'll have to be a master signature item. Is it immune to power fields? Any other qualities? You can add negative ones to it to counter the positives, reducing cost perhaps. I'm up for working something out if you want to start with it, otherwise you could wait to take the talent.

Also, you are only allowed one deed at PC creation, it looks like you have atleast 2? Maybe they are distinctions, but then try to limit them as well. Starting with iron skull? Some of the stuff you're wanting you'll need to justify more in your history.

On your Geneseed: So you're fangs and more venemous and lethal, so you don't spit? Or you do both? Stats on that? Then you're body is adapted to toxins, so are you adding some other bonuses into that somewhere or plan to if you had a toxic exposure? Or is it just fluff and you'll have the same stats as others in those regards? I'm fine with you having it, just need to know the details before we begin and avoid some heartache when you do something I didn't think you could/won't allow.

@EVERYONE:

Anyone else should feel free to drop in to these discussions, as it affects your game too. If you don't care, please just say so. I'm pretty open as a GM, if you want someting and can justify it, then we'll balance it out and figure out a cost. Don't be afraid to ask if you can or can't do something. NO harm and if you've got something to back it up, all the better. Just don't get upset or jealous if you don't participate in the process. Respect the decision I or others make.

Something I'm considering for initiative is what Yuugassa does in his game, I rather like that way, and agree the flow is a bit better. However, I'm not sure our group has that ability and/or desire. Maybe we're used to a little slower combat time, if so, we'll keep it for the sake of the status quo, but if others like that way, speak up, we might change it and have a default move for PCs who miss the 24 hour deadline.

For those not clear on the rule change, it just means that marines would always go first, unless I specifically have an enemy act before by executive decision or dice. You would have 24 hours to post actions from the time combat begins before the round is over and the enemy gets a round. 24 hours to dodge or respond to enemy actions, then new round. If all players post/act before the deadline, then I could update faster. But atleast 24 hours to act. Failure to post means you miss our turn and I'd be nice and dodge for you if you're not posting and maybe make default action: Aim + fire and/or move to cover, maybe fire. That's to keep the round going, afterwards, depending on the enemy, I could move the PC if story/squad needed. Hopefully don't need to do and if you ask for time, then I'll try and give it to you, even if its just saying what you want to do without rolling it, I could do that for you in a pinch.

Let me know what you think, after comparing how it goes here in this game and how its gone in that game, I prefer the other system. I know some of you here have experienced both, so please speak up an let us know which you'd prefer.

Thanks for the accolade Spooks, that is my third Honourable Mention. And thanks for the MVP vote BayouSnowman.

My MVP vote goes to Elyas. His roleplaying is always excellent, and his willingness to assault a Leman Russ single-handedly while backup arrived really capped off an excellent mission for him.

With regards to changes, I'm not sure I like taking away Initiative orders based on dice in favour of automatically having the Astartes go first. I feel like it takes away part of the joy of having plans go awry, on our part as well as the enemy, and allowing organic reactions to occur. I feel like it would make things a bit forced, but I'm happy to hear others' opinions.

Thanks for the accolade Spooks, that is my third Honourable Mention. And thanks for the MVP vote BayouSnowman.

My MVP vote goes to Elyas. His roleplaying is always excellent, and his willingness to assault a Leman Russ single-handedly while backup arrived really capped off an excellent mission for him.

With regards to changes, I'm not sure I like taking away Initiative orders based on dice in favour of automatically having the Astartes go first. I feel like it takes away part of the joy of having plans go awry, on our part as well as the enemy, and allowing organic reactions to occur. I feel like it would make things a bit forced, but I'm happy to hear others' opinions.

I see, perhaps a compromise where initiative is done by me, marines act on initiative, but its first come first serve. Don't like waiting for the first person to post to decide actions, and then if they do what you did for your action that takes place later, then you need to change or they? Technically, they go first, but then again you posted first and now need to change it? Seems like some waiting and a little too organic. A permutation of the two might allow for the benefits of both.

Here's an idea, I could roll initiative and then say, after 2 marines act, so and so does blah blah...and then after 2 more marine actions, so and so does..etc.

Hmm...maybe could work, just trying to keep the pace up. Could roll initiative and still give 24 hours to post, I roll initiative for everyone, so its not 24 hours from the time the last person does it. Could even make it longer, its just a starting point for discussion.

In any case, I can say with some certainty, there will be some slight changes to initiative and combat order. What they are I'm not sure, but it will be done to make things a little more fluid.

I'll give the MVP to Elyas. He was always where we needed him, and his roleplaying was excellent.

How much additional experience and renown do I receive for completing my first mission?

You could always handle initiative in blocks, that's the way most people prefer to do it. I do agree with brother Vartas, throwing out initiative entirely doesn't seem like a good solution and gives too muvh of a tactical edge to the players.

@Brother Zedkiel
Bump yourself up to Rank 3 and 50 renown in addition to the xp and renown earned by your team as well as the xp earned by Arkhos' team.

So if I'm mathing it right, I get 8000 (21000 - 13000) + (1775+2030) for my mission + (575+630) for their mission for a total of 13010 experience, bringing my experience total to 26010 and bumping me to rank 4 with a total renown of 56.

Also, do the various hatred talents stack with the bonus from hunter of aliens or scourge of heretics?

Right, I am also a little confused about how the xp and renown work with the two teams.

I get that I move Ulrich to Rank 3 and 50 renown.

Then I add the xp that both teams earned?

And do I add the renown from both teams, or just from my own team?

The most successful ways of handling initiative I have seen on the boards is to handle the actions of the players and NPC in groups together. (i.e. PCs all go in order of posting, then NPCs go, or vice versa). True, this would give an advantage to the PCs, but that can be easily overcome by GM creativity.

Also, do the various hatred talents stack with the bonus from hunter of aliens or scourge of heretics?

Yes.

And do I add the renown from both teams, or just from my own team?

XP from both, renown from your own team.

You may only have 2 Signature Wargears, the Master replaces your regular. Not sure how you ended up with 4 items.

I was not aware of the limitations, crap... I'll stick with the Stalker bolter and the sword then for mine, and make them both Masters.

Did yo roll randomly for your chapter? Seems like you took and combined a lot of some of the best stuff and maybe even made up some of your own? That's cool and fine, love the creativity, but it needs to be balanced. I know you made great effort in your background to include some items and that helps justify them.

I did not roll, I did in fact take the custom chapter rules and mixed it with the Raven Guard. I debated several things with Spooks as to how to go about it, and that was what we agreed on. I'll have to dig out those particulars again here.

How does the Chapter Trapping you have work? You want to use it's Psyn of 20 with your percepton to detect warp activity?

It's just the flat 20, no additions from my character. It's purely the trapping itself that does it. It's a piece of fungus that essentially starts vibrating whenever psychic activity is near, but gives little to no details other than it vibrating more strongly the closer you get.

Then you got "Gorilla Training" which is huge, I've only seen in one chapter and quite a bit of the history and lore is explaining that part of their training and way of life.

It's pretty big with my character's chapter too. Their homeworld's surface is completely inhospitable, and all life, human or otherwise, is in subterranean tunnels that go from crust to upper mantle. Vibrations and ultraviolet bioluminescence are the biggest means of detection in terms of senses, and as a result both stealth and hit and fade actions are part of living. The Void Wyrms excel at tunnel fighting and urban combat as a result of this. I've got some write ups for it both on my profile and in my records for some of the events that shaped the chapter as such.

Then you have the "ceremonial" sword, which is often a trapping itself I think, and then adding toxic quality to it. Its a cool idea, reminds me of the swords in Rogue Trader from some world that are made of crystal that have the same properties as your sword, without the toxic part. We'll have to work on that weapon and its profile if you want it, as well as its costs. If you're set on starting it, then it'll have to be a master signature item. Is it immune to power fields? Any other qualities? You can add negative ones to it to counter the positives, reducing cost perhaps. I'm up for working something out if you want to start with it, otherwise you could wait to take the talent.

This is one of those items that I had made as a signature piece for the character. I used the Ceremonial sword as the basis for it, since it's larger than a combat knife, but not the size or damage of a full sword. It is NOT immune to power fields, but has the capability of repairing itself or being repaired with work, and given its organic crystal nature can NEVER be given a power field of its own. It COULD be made into a force weapon, but not a true power weapon. Any upgrade suggestions for it though that would make sense I'd love to hear about!

Also, you are only allowed one deed at PC creation, it looks like you have atleast 2? Maybe they are distinctions, but then try to limit them as well. Starting with iron skull? Some of the stuff you're wanting you'll need to justify more in your history.

Did not know about about the more than one deed either. I'll change that.

On your Geneseed: So you're fangs and more venemous and lethal, so you don't spit? Or you do both? Stats on that? Then you're body is adapted to toxins, so are you adding some other bonuses into that somewhere or plan to if you had a toxic exposure? Or is it just fluff and you'll have the same stats as others in those regards? I'm fine with you having it, just need to know the details before we begin and avoid some heartache when you do something I didn't think you could/won't allow.

No, they do not spit. Stats have not been made, but I assume that if we were to stat it that it would make a bite attack have the same stats as the spit would have had. I'm starting with a Resistance Poison talent as well to reflect the constant exposure from his home world, but otherwise it is just fluff, no big differences there.

Any other questions you'd like to ask?

Quote:

You may only have 2 Signature Wargears, the Master replaces your regular. Not sure how you ended up with 4 items.

Quote:

I was not aware of the limitations, crap... I'll stick with the Stalker bolter and the sword then for mine, and make them both Masters.

Check the talents at your xp level, I believe only 1 master signature gear is available now.

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I did not roll, I did in fact take the custom chapter rules and mixed it with the Raven Guard. I debated several things with Spooks as to how to go about it, and that was what we agreed on. I'll have to dig out those particulars again here.

Fine by me, no reason to go through that again if Spooks approved. I get the world you are from, but why they have a marine chapter and how and what they did isn't fully flushed out yet, that's why I was wondering about the talent choices you took for your chapter. You need to add your solo and squad mode abilities too. Are those custom or will you choose from among others?

Quote:

It's just the flat 20, no additions from my character. It's purely the trapping itself that does it. It's a piece of fungus that essentially starts vibrating whenever psychic activity is near, but gives little to no details other than it vibrating more strongly the closer you get.

I'm gonna have to say no on this one, and I think its to your benefit. If you took it, and it has no PER, then you'd have at most a 1 DOS on the Psyn test, which doesn't give you much of anything. I think its a bit of a stretch for Chapter trappings as they usually give a bonus to a skill or attribute of around +3, not a new skill. Sometimes a talent like frenzy, but nothing like you're asking for. Gonna work with you on the sword, but choose another trapping. Something like +3 to PER or even a +10 toxins, maybe you carry some special apothecary made serum or ointment that applies to you.

Quote:

Then you got "Gorilla Training" which is huge, I've only seen in one chapter and quite a bit of the history and lore is explaining that part of their training and way of life.

Quote:

It's pretty big with my character's chapter too. Their homeworld's surface is completely inhospitable, and all life, human or otherwise, is in subterranean tunnels that go from crust to upper mantle. Vibrations and ultraviolet bioluminescence are the biggest means of detection in terms of senses, and as a result both stealth and hit and fade actions are part of living. The Void Wyrms excel at tunnel fighting and urban combat as a result of this. I've got some write ups for it both on my profile and in my records for some of the events that shaped the chapter...

Like I said above, its fine.

As for weapon:

Quote:

Mastercrafted Ceremonial sword with Toxic quality. 10 req +10 Toxic for total of 20 requisition (For purposes of Signature Wargear Master talent).

Cavarrus crystals are a unique formation that appears on its home planet. It is an organic crystal, which means that it continues to build up on its form over time so long as it is exposed to fluids and minerals. It is highly toxic, with pieces of the crystal flaking off into wounds and dissolving in the blood, further damaging their bodily organs. The constant growth of the crystal however, ensures that it never chips permanently, and can even repair itself from destroyed shards, though it must be maintained often. This particular sword is one handed down to Ikwa by his Chapter Master in recognition of his efforts. It is a short blade just longer than the Apothecary's forearm, but the formation of the crystal ensures that its edge is always sharp enough to cut through ceramite,Gives +10 to weapon attack rolls.

Need to figure a damage profile, copied the one from book and upped things:

Ceremonial Sword
Melee 1d10+4 R Pen 4 Balanced, Tearing, Toxic, Special** 5kg
Toughness test to resist poison damage suffer a -10, in addition to normal effects of -5 for each wound received. Because of the rare and unique qualities of this toxin and crystaline structure, creatures normally immune to toxins can still take damage, but do not suffer the -10 penalty. The sword may may regrow if broken taking 1d10 hours to regrow less than half, longer at the GM's discretion if its more badly damaged or shattered.

How does that sound for a master signature sword? Luckily you're starting at such a high level, otherwise you wouldn't begin with something like this. If you like it, its yours. If you want a change or something, then lets talk about it more.

Keep in mind that without Brother Castil we will have no Librarian to speak of.

Brother Sumantra will possess the only means of performing Psyn to detect psionics. Given that it is at a base 20% chance of success with no means of improving, I do not think it is entirely unreasonable. Plus, there are a lot of Chapter Trappings/free specific Chapter gear that are significantly more useful by comparison.

It used to be a bonus to Psyn tests but I suggested the change. There would be no point to a bonus because only Librarians have the skill and his chapter doesn't employ them.

Maybe I haven't seen enough trappings, if you two worked it out before then I'll let it stand.

As for Castil I considered keeping him as an npc because there is no librarian. If you all are fine without or would prefer a different librarian, then I'll make another. Our next mission could use one. Anyone feel like creating a new librarian at current xp feel free. I could ask my brother if he's interested, he's in the other DW game as librarian, he may not want to play a second. I told him it was full, but might make an exception if no one is interested... Or I just have an npc.

Any comments on sword Spooks?

I emailed paizo today to transfer thread GM to me, excited about this game, ready to post when you guys are ready.

Spooks, could you try and update the campaign tab as best you can before it transfers, that'd be appreciated.

The webmaster usually takes a handful of days to respond. Unfortunately I'm at work so I lack a means to reliably access my books or update the campaign info.

I don't recall off the top of my head how the toxic quality works normally. At first glance it looks like just a normal MC sword with the toxic quality. Am I mistaken?

Also since we already brought up deeds) back when I was running Hallan, Nimon let me take a second deed "Right Gear for the Job" so that I could get a combat shield (which can't normally be taken with Signature Wargear). Do you want me to preserve that?

I'm also not sold on the idea of a tag-along NPC, but if you think it's necessary then by all means.

I think Brother Elyas is always good for MVP, but I would also suggest Zedkiel he was solid in my point of view.

I rather roll initiative, or take the initiative bonus + 5 (average) and make that your normal initiative and don't have to roll, and if you want to risk going faster then an enemy roll and hopefully you will get something equal or better.

I agree with Deiros and think Zedkiel should receive the MVP for this mission. He portrayed a good Black Templar and contributed in a significant way to the outcome of the mission.

And I am in for another mission.

Solo and squad mode abilities are on the profile, and they were chosen via the custom chapter creation rules again.

As for the chapter trapping, what do you mean +10 toxin? Do you mean to resistance? Or to the toxins that I make via my Apothecary ability?

Finally, the Signature Wargear Master is a Rank 2 talent, not a rank 3, so I'm not certain there IS a limit on it. Nor have I seen any limit on Signature Wargear (Though I will admit it only makes sense. There's no point in entrusting a lot of specific wargear to someone who won't have any EXP left over for skills or the like.)

@Everyone

Hey guys, please try and read previous posts, atleast skim them. They often contain information for everyone and individuals. I'll try to Bold the names so people can more easily pick out whats pertinent to you.

@Deiros
Sorry I forgot about Arkhos, will he be joining us? You haven't said yet.

@Spooks
1. The weapon is much more than a standard MC ceremonial sword with toxic. Increased damage and pen +2, added -10 modifier to TG test to avoid toxic damage, and added ability to damage even resistant creatures, minues the penalty. Also gave it the "tearing" ability and self repairing after 1d10 hours. Sumantra didn't see it either I don't think.

2. Can you update your marines profile and add things like solo/squad, deeds taken, demeanor, distinctions. Please add a small blip as to what they do if its not obvious.

@Sumantra
I said previously in response to Spooks, that since you already worked it out with him, then you could have it. In regards to your sword, you still haven't replied, maybe you missed that too. Here's the profile I created, its at 40 req, famed

________Ceremonial Sword***Make up a name.
Melee 1d10+4 R Pen 4 Balanced, Tearing, Toxic, Special** 5kg
Toughness test to resist poison damage suffer a -10, in addition to normal effects of -5 for each wound received. Because of the rare and unique qualities of this toxin and crystaline structure, creatures normally immune to toxins can still take damage, but do not suffer the -10 penalty. The sword may may regrow if broken taking 1d10 hours to regrow less than half, longer at the GM's discretion if its more badly damaged or shattered.

I've simply improved the standard MC Ceremonial sword, and added your "+10" idea and made it a penalty to the enemies TG test, also allowed to pretty much have a chance at poisoning anything you hit.

In regards to talents: You may only purchase a talent once unless otherwise stated. Such examples are sound constitution (x2) which means you can purchase twice at that level, or "Flesh is weak" which has a number 1, 2, 3 behind it at different levels. You may have one master signature wargear at your current level. Please choose b/w the

You have your trapping, no need to worry about the other alternatives. Later we'll discuss the unique ammunition and grenades you have but not for use on this mission. You can have some time to come up with your own weapon profiles and submit them to me or here for discussion.

@Everyone

Please add and make it clear what your rank, chapter, and specialty is in the header of your profile. Also add any special abilities that you get to your profile any rules I need to know like solo mode abilities. I need to know those before the mission and if your alias is organized and uses spoilers, then I can see things quickly.

Everyone will need to add a "Requisition" spoiler to their profile, so I can see what you get for each mission clearly. If you have two shields or some other variation from the standard gear for your class, please make a note of it and state what you are bringing in the spoiler. Also post that here for others to see when you make your requisition choices. Things can be shared and you can help each other our with proper role play.

I'm going to try and post an intro today and set up the mission so you all can prepare. We'll probably start Monday or Tuesday, give people time to choose req, spend xp, ask question/make requests, etc.
If anyone would like any deed or distinction please PM me. Any elite advances or custom talen, PM me.

I have decided not to bring Castil and allow my brother to join with his own Librarian or techmarine. I've changed around a few NPCs and should be great. There are some old NPCs that I can't control the Alias for, so I'll just mention them by name.

@Spooks

2. Can you update your marines profile and add things like solo/squad, deeds taken, demeanor, distinctions. Please add a small blip as to what they do if its not obvious

All of that information is already available in Hallan's profile. Solo/Squad Mode is under "Special Abilities", Demeanor is under "Alignment", Deeds and distinctions are under the section bolded "Deeds", and I have tracked all xp spending up until this point. Rank as well as specialty are also part of my "Vital" information. Is there some other way you would like it formatted?

Quote:

@Spooks

2. Can you update your marines profile and add things like solo/squad, deeds taken, demeanor, distinctions. Please add a small blip as to what they do if its not obvious

All of that information is already available in Hallan's profile. Solo/Squad Mode is under "Special Abilities", Demeanor is under "Alignment", Deeds and distinctions are under the section bolded "Deeds", and I have tracked all xp spending up until this point. Rank as well as specialty are also part of my "Vital" information. Is there some other way you would like it formatted?

** spoiler omitted **

My bad, I see some of those now, to the left of the spoilers. Please put them in the spoilers so you can add a blip on what they are. I can't remember everyone's info/ability/unique talents/etc and whatever you can put in your profile means it'll be easier for me to use it in the game. I'm not really carrying around notes and such like a traditional game, keeping this mobile. Please help and put as much as you can in your profile so can reference the books as little as possible. Same for deeds and/or distinctions. You have some honors, if they do something or provide a bonus I should know about, then list them in profile for me to see.

@Everyone
Please read the above. It pertains to you. Please put the info in your profile for my benefit and yours. Unless you have it memorized and want to tell me when I ask so I don't go on a hunt across a handful of books or look up old discussion posts on the topic, put it in your profile so I can easily see and understand it if you choose to use it. You don't need your books around if its in your profile.

I like to be able to have as much in my profile to avoid having to open a book. I take abilities and ammo and weapons and put them together so its easy to cut and paste when an attack comes. If you'd like some examples of what I mean, check Castil, though he's outdated and the first version. Checkout Sardus or Korbin for a more precise layout example, they can be found under my profile, as one of my Aliases. Those are a little easier to read and quickly find info instead of combing through a list of words with no space or indenture.

I realize not everyone may be able to cut and paste such detail, atleast put a blip and/or a pg. number in which book I can find more details on if needed.

I will try to get that all set up tonight, as well as the advancement.

I think my profile is already fairly reader friendly, but I'll have a look through later when I do my advancements and see if there's any polishing I can do.

I'll work on getting my profile updated this weekend.

Following the ceremony with the Watch Captain, Lucian returns to his quarters to see to his wargear and meditate on the lessons he learned from the Kill-Team's most arduous mission yet. Reviewing his tactical mistakes and the failures of his physical body, he turns to the Codex Astartes for guidance and instruction.

What is the feeling about gaining Deeds during play? I'd like Lucian to gain the Keeper of Ways deed (RoB 78) to represent his ability to lead and his devotion to the Codex Astartes. If that's OK, I'll take it. If not, I'll improve one of my Tactics instead.

Simple Toughness - 500
Trained BS - 1000
Intermediate WP - 1000
Signature Wargear (Motion Predictor) - 500
Duty Unti Death - 800
Tactics (Recon and Stealth) - 400
Search +10 - 400
Keeper of Ways - 300/Tactics (Assault Doctrine) 400

Hey guys.

I'm almost finished putting my stuff into an alias here. Was inspired by the chapter creation process and made up my own. Asked if I could play a Grey Knight but of course my brother laughed..no one ever plays them. SO a combination of the no librarian chapter of the Wyrms and the all psyker chapter of the Knights, I've worked out a cool chapter.

What are we missing fellas? Techmarine? Librarian? Something close quaters, ranged?

Mechanically you have access to both Rites of Battle and the Core Book to build with.

We have three tactical marines, one assault, one tech-marine, one devastator, and two apothecaries.

Two of our tac's are speced for melee and the other (myself) is ranged specialist.

Thanks for the sword idea there Bayou, though I should say that the +10 to attack with it was a side effect of the Master Signature gear, not something I was just adding. Had a choice between adding attack value, a WP bonus vs pinning, or cohesion bonus, and I decided on the attack bonus. As for the second signature weapon, I'll downgrade the Stalker to just a regular stalker then if I can't make it a Master ranked one as well. I'll add the sword to my profile, and make the other changes you've requested now.

Thanks for the sword idea there Bayou, though I should say that the +10 to attack with it was a side effect of the Master Signature gear, not something I was just adding. Had a choice between adding attack value, a WP bonus vs pinning, or cohesion bonus, and I decided on the attack bonus. As for the second signature weapon, I'll downgrade the Stalker to just a regular stalker then if I can't make it a Master ranked one as well. I'll add the sword to my profile, and make the other changes you've requested now.

Your original request:

Pop question for whoever takes over next, is this an acceptable piece of Signature wargear?

Mastercrafted Ceremonial sword with Toxic quality. 10 req +10 Toxic for total of 20 requisition (For purposes of Signature Wargear Master talent).
Cavarrus crystals are a unique formation that appears on its home planet. It is an organic crystal, which means that it continues to build up on its form over time so long as it is exposed to fluids and minerals. It is highly toxic, with pieces of the crystal flaking off into wounds and dissolving in the blood, further damaging their bodily organs. The constant growth of the crystal however, ensures that it never chips permanently, and can even repair itself from destroyed shards, though it must be maintained often. This particular sword is one handed down to Ikwa by his Chapter Master in recognition of his efforts. It is a short blade just longer than the Apothecary's forearm, but the formation of the crystal ensures that its edge is always sharp enough to cut through ceramite,
Gives +10 to weapon attack rolls.

Also, any way it can be further upgraded

I get you chose for Master Gear to add +10 to Attack tests. Then there is the bonus of being a master crafted weapon vs an exceptional or common crafted weapon, which adds +2 Damage (already added to profile) and +10 to Weapon Skill tests. They are not the same. Attacks are for only attacks and WS tests would include things like parry. Don't get those confused.

I didn't understand what you meant by "+10 Toxic" at 20 req points in your original post, so I merely flipped that into a penalty that people have to avoid taking toxic damage. I also added tearing and increased pen by 2.

I think its a pretty good sword, nearly rivals the force sword in some ways being able to deal extra damage that bypasses TG and AP. If you aren't excited about it, we have some time to tweak it. Can't be famed as I originally said, distinguished fine so you can have it now. Otherwise everything else looks good I believe.

@Hallen:

You may take your Deed, that particular one can be taken later, especially after your last mission performance.

@Everyone:

If I didn't make it clear earlier, I'm pretty open to stuff. Let me know we can work it out. That means you are able to access any WH40k book. Any book or equipment is fair game (be reasonable, you can't break the rules or fluff) I've discussed this in the other DW game in more detail, some may recall, it will apply here as well. Ammunition, talents, weapons, etc etc. Just because it doesn't exist now, doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't. Lots of cool stuff in RT and other books that I think are supplements to the DW arsenal. They have the best and access to so much more.

Lastly, I say this in my kitchen when I cook and I'll say it here, this is not a democracy. That means I may open the floor to discussion but the GM should make the final say and everyone should respect that afterwards. Open door policy here, no one has to stay, but gotta play nice. You guys do have a VETO, I'll be nice. If a unanimous decision is reached among players against a ruling I make, I'll reverse it or alter it to fit the overwhelming opinion. Don't think it would ever come to that, but I feel like the president of a club more than a teacher, elected by you all. If at any point its not working out, I'd rather just not be president than leave the group. If we end up rotating and I end up playing alongside you again, I don't want my previous GM experience to be taken personal. Hopefully no one takes the decisions Spooks made and decides to play/act differently b/c of it.

I think its how its always been done since I've been here, but just want to lay down some classroom rules. (I'm a teacher IRL)

The "+10 Toxic" was because I believed that adding the toxic quality would cost an extra 10 requisition points, hence that addition to round out the cost to a full 20 points. And it's fine as you've made it! I'm looking forward to using it!

About the only way I could possibly see this thing being upgraded further would be to alter it into a chain weapon, kind of like how the Space Wolves have the Frost weapons using kraken teeth. But that would make it effectively a relic, which I couldn't justify using yet. Something to keep in mind for later though if we get up to a level where I can access a Heroic signature gear!

So I added xp to Castil's profile, correct me if I'm wrong, but he's sitting at 26010xp total. Everyone else, besides the new people, should be higher as I joined just prior to our last missioon. The decision below is based on that assumption. If I'm somehow off, then I'll consider altering the below:

I had originally told my brother to create a Rank 4 Librarian with 50 renown, so in fairness to everyone else, the new people particularly, I want them up to Rank 4. Older Vets are above that and this doesn't affect you. You all have higher renown and xp to reflect your experience and history. I can't find those posts with the unique equipment you all are able to access, if anyone has that list or know of any contents, it'd be helpful to see/know as GM.

From now on, while I GM that is, anyone joining will create a PC at the lowest charecter's Rank starting xp.(25,000xp Rank 4 DW) Renown is calculated at the lowest Rankedd PC's renown lowered to the nearest tens place. (Current 59..someones might be lower, but doesn't matter in this instance, round down to 50)

Another question for the powers that be, especially given the above opening up of books. Would it be acceptable for Lucian to gain a second Chapter Solo Mode ability, namely Student of the Codex (First Founding p73)? I know having a second ability is powerful, but it very much represents how I see Lucian fighting, using the lessons and rules of the Codex Astartes to guide his actions.

25,000 exp? I thought it was only 21,000?

I think the idea is now that everyone should have at least 25000 xp (which is the threshold for Rnk 4). It's a different version of the old ruling so if you don't have 25000 xp, move yourself up to that amount.

Yes Arkhos will be joining, no Ultrasmurf is taking my place of Leader and Glory Oaths lol