
Eruyomon Elsar |

With the premise that I've always felt like metamagic feats are really bad (I won't go into math, right now, but basically I feel like they're not worth both a slot increase AND the cost of a feat), and also the fact that I'm surely not the world's best optimizer, I have thought of applying a HR to the game I GM in.
So, please, tell me if it's doable or if metamagic feats are really more powerful than I realize and thus should left them untouched.
The HR is simply about grouping three feats in one, so that a player takes one feat and has what he'd normally get by spending three feats on the corresponding metamagic.
For now, this only include the Core Rulebook:
- Metaform (Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Widen Spell)
- Metacast (Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell)
- Metaeffect (Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, Maximize Spell)

kestral287 |
Intensified is missing from that list, and it's one of the better metamagic feats out there. Dazing is missing too but... Dazing is fine.
Realistically, metamagic is all over the map. Quicken Spell is easily one of the most useful feats in existence for casters. Doubling up your action economy is awesome. On the other hand, Still and Silent... really kind of suck outside of very specific uses (mostly social campaigns). Enlarge, Widen, and so many more are in similar boats.
So I can see where you're coming from. But I think you might be better to adjust things feat by feat instead of on the whole. For example, perhaps combine Still and Silent Spell into one feat, and let the caster apply one effect to every spell he casts as a +0 adjustment, and both for a +1. Lower the cost of the ones you don't feel are worthwhile, or boost their effects.
I suggest this because what I see as being common is that you see Metaeffect taken only by blasters (along with Intensified Spell and, if they're the type to use it, Dazing Spell), Metacast being taken by everybody, and nobody taking Metaform. Metacast-equipped casters are, however, likely to take it entirely for Quicken and virtually never use the others; at most somebody might get wise and prepare a Silent Dimension Door. That seems like it doesn't really solve your problem: the grouping that actually works well together is the one restricted to a small group of casters, while the valuable grouping is being taken for one metamagic feat, basically bringing you full circle.

Eruyomon Elsar |

As said, I'm only considering Core Rulebook.
Anyway, blasters will want Metaeffect, but controllers will want Metaform. Increasing range, area and duration (this one especially for buffing/debuffing) is no small thing.
Metacast can be useful for anyone. I can think of many situations where Silent and Still spell are useful, beyond highly social campaigns.
Point is, as said, I'm not sure each of the normal metamagic feats is worth its cost both as a feat and in the slot increase.

kestral287 |
If you look at control-oriented Wizard builds... no, they actually usually don't bother with the Metaforms-- definitely not Widen and Enlarge. The level adjustments aren't worth it. Extend is, but that brings us back to my original point: you wind up with one feat being taken for one metamagic feat. If I'm taking one feat to use Extend Spell, how's that different from taking Extend Spell to use Extend Spell?
Everybody is going to take Metacast for Quicken. The rest are situationally useful to the point that nobody is going to prepare them-- the Sorcerer might be really thankful for them one day, but the Wizard probably won't notice.

DM_Blake |

I agree with the OP. Even to the extent that I don't think his proposed fix actually fixes it. They're not worth the higher slot. Period. Even if you gave the casters all the feats for free, there are just too few uses for metamagic that justify the higher slot. A few, yes, but not many.
My fix:
Leave the feats alone (each feat is still a feat). But change how metamagic is applied.
Let everybody apply metamagic spontaneously (much like sorcerers do now), but casting them is a little slower. A standard-action spell requires a full round action. 1-round spells require the caster to give up his move action on the following round.
Once the decision to use metamagic is made, it cannot be changed. At the END of the casting time the caster needs to make a concentration check.
DC = 15 + 2x Adjusted Spell Level +1 per metamagic feat.
Roll = d20 + Caster Level + Primary Ability Score (this is a standard concentration check)
So, if a 12th level wizard wants to cast a maximized fireball, he would declare that action, cast it as a full-round action (not a 1-round spell). At the end of his casting time he makes a Concentration Check with a DC of 28. He might have, say, an INT of 26 which means his roll would be d20 + 12 + 8 so he has a fairly good chance of making this roll (he succeeds on a 7 so he will succeed 70% of the time).
If he fails, he loses the spell.
If he also needs to cast defensively, you could roll this as a separate concentration check (meaning two concentration checks) or just add +5 to the DC (mathematically it's fairly equivalent).
This has worked for me for years. See this thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2johk&page=1?Houserule-for-Metamagic