Lost Lands Mega-Campaign (Inactive)

Game Master Grimmy

I don't think I will... AK is not taking another Paladin :/

Hey, how do you know I'm in that game? :D

I've been following that game since it started. I have every Rappan Athuk and Slumbering Tsar PbP on here dotted. When I first ran this stuff my players TPK'd so bad repeatedly they wouldn't play anything Necromancer/Frog God for a full year.

I was reading these adventures and I was super pumped about them but I couldn't get anyone to play them, so I started reading the PbP's and some well-written campaign journals I found online just to get my fix. It was frustrating though because all the PbP's were converted to Golarion and made other changes to bring the adventure in line with the expectations of typical Pathfinder play. I get why the GM's felt they needed to do this but IMO they really threw the baby out with the bathwater.

My group isn't scared of big bad Orcus anymore though, they are gunning for him. They're at level ten in the current pass at this campaign with no casualties, routinely crushing APL+5 encounters.

All it took was a six month break from PF to play AD&D and they came back with all the conventional wisdom of the boards unlearned and started tearing $h!t up!

My group isn't scared of big bad Orcus anymore though, they are gunning for him. They're at level ten in the current pass at this campaign with no casualties, routinely crushing APL+5 encounters.

All it took was a six month break from PF to play AD&D and they came back with all the conventional wisdom of the boards unlearned and started tearing $h!t up!

Hm, this is interesting. Might I ask, what sort of conventional wisdom are you referring to?

I like the fast paced. I check most days a couple times at least. Will be a grand experiment in any case, excited to see where it goes!

FYI, thanks for the kudos on the spreadsheet but I must admit I just edited a loot sheet from one of my Age of Worms games so I cannot take credit for its awesomeness!

Geez, can't I get away from you. We are already stuck together in at least 4 or more campaigns.

As GM Blood will attest, I am on slightly more than the average addict.

I unfortunately am one who needs the medium pace. I would love to go fast paced but I never know what one day will be like to the next. I'll take the chacne to go back and read through those ideas, I like the concept of the mixing the sandbox mmo with this style rpg.

Raziel Drakan wrote:

I don't think I will... AK is not taking another Paladin :/

Hey, how do you know I'm in that game? :D

I've been following that game since it started. I have every Rappan Athuk and Slumbering Tsar PbP on here dotted. When I first ran this stuff my players TPK'd so bad repeatedly they wouldn't play anything Necromancer/Frog God for a full year.

I was reading these adventures and I was super pumped about them but I couldn't get anyone to play them, so I started reading the PbP's and some well-written campaign journals I found online just to get my fix. It was frustrating though because all the PbP's were converted to Golarion and made other changes to bring the adventure in line with the expectations of typical Pathfinder play. I get why the GM's felt they needed to do this but IMO they really threw the baby out with the bathwater.

My group isn't scared of big bad Orcus anymore though, they are gunning for him. They're at level ten in the current pass at this campaign with no casualties, routinely crushing APL+5 encounters.

All it took was a six month break from PF to play AD&D and they came back with all the conventional wisdom of the boards unlearned and started tearing $h!t up!

Wow, this looks almost like me (the dotting of almost all Rappan Athuk and Slumbering Tsar games on the Paizo forums) although probably for different reasons.

I have been trying to play one such game for a looooong time, way before I ever even knew about Pathfinder - call it the search for a definite challenge or something like that :D

I was lucky enough to join an amazing Slumbering Tsar game about one or two years ago right here in the Paizo site - both the players and GM played really strong parts in how the game came alive. Unfortunately RL got in the way there, the GM had to drop out, and the game died away. I was really sad to see that one go away.

Surprisingly enough, I never actually got to play either one, apart from that short experience [the game lasted for quite a long time, but the RP was so heavy, as well as the side treks, plot considerations had so many twists, etc., that we actually didn't go much into what was going on at all :D], and stalking games from other people [I think I stalked GM Blood for a while ;)] - but I usually end up stopping the stalking because I don't want to spoil stuff for when I get to chance to play it.

DM Grimmy wrote:

My group isn't scared of big bad Orcus anymore though, they are gunning for him. They're at level ten in the current pass at this campaign with no casualties, routinely crushing APL+5 encounters.

All it took was a six month break from PF to play AD&D and they came back with all the conventional wisdom of the boards unlearned and started tearing $h!t up!

Hm, this is interesting. Might I ask, what sort of conventional wisdom are you referring to?

It's a hard thing to quantify but you know it when you see it. For starters, you have to know when to run away from or avoid an encounter. Then, a lot of the truisms that experienced players repeat have a way of breaking down.

1.)Healing in combat sucks.
2.)Blasting sucks.
3.)Rogues are useless.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Basically I watched them throw all the build guide optimized PC's up against these adventures and wipe, but when they came back from AD&D they stormed through 8 levels with 15 point-buy CRB only PC's. We rebooted after that because I wanted to try the multi-party thing and some new low level stuff had been released. They're doing even better now with the 20 pt buy and bonus feat and action points and additional material beyond core, but none of that makes as much of a difference as the play style.

It's basically just a way of getting out of the meta thinking and playing like you really are your character. Being scared when you should be scared, really wanting to not die. Thinking about how you can use the resources that are in front of you no matter how meager instead of assuming that whatever comes along will be something you can handle without thinking about it.

I really can't explain it any better then that right now, you'll know it when you see it. There's already some of it going on, like deciding to pass the amulet around, make dummy amulets, stuff like that.

Ah, that's about what I thought. I assume it's because I started pre-3rd edition but I've always felt that's just how you play the game. Creativity is always your most powerful tool!

As to the standard wisdoms of the boards, never trust to theorycrafting...ever.

It's basically just a way of getting out of the meta thinking and playing like you really are your character. Being scared when you should be scared, really wanting to not die. Thinking about how you can use the resources that are in front of you no matter how meager instead of assuming that whatever comes along will be something you can handle without thinking about it.

unfortunately I have been guity of this (not thinking, definately assuming)... I regret that all the time now (or so it seems).

And that's why it pays to have pragmatic veterans and crafty skulkers among your companions. Travel with them long enough and you pick things up :)

Well alot of that stuff depends upon your GM and the rest of the group at least as much as your own creativity. Also what levels you tend to play at most often.
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Some GM's very much tend to stifle creativity (unintentionally I'm sure) by letting almost nothing succeed or have very little effect if it does succeed. It isn't in the rules, so they aren't sure how to handle it.
"Well, I don't know how to set the DC for that so if you roll a 20 it works." Ok, I will never try anything not in the rules again.
So you learn to not try and trick the bad guys or use creative illusions because it ends up being a waste of time.
If you group just groans and complains anytime you try something other than attack or cast, you quickly stop doing it.
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Course I've seen some go the other way to. I recently saw a GM allow 3 ray of frost freeze a body solid so it would float up from the bottom of the ocean and be preserved. Dropping a chandalier on 2 barbarian minataurs killed them. No fantastic rolls or anything, he just liked the cinimatic feel so it killed them both. With that GM 'standard' activities like attack with a sword of casting a spell at an opponent were almost a waste of time.
It was a very wierd sureal experience. Especially coming at me back-to-back with the first type of GM.
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Also, If you tend to play mostly high level games, alot of that trickiness becomes less valuable. So you knocked the night off the castle wall. Meh, 3d6 damage is almost almost nothing to a high level fighter. Especially compared to what most any spell or weapon attack at high level would do. He activates his boots of spider climb and charges you again. So almost any 'standard' offensive action would have been more worth your turn.
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I'm glad you brought this topic up. Otherwise I would not have known you were the type of GM to appreciate non-standard activities. I will have to put some more effort into thinking what kinds of things along those lines would fit in with the personality of Wilfort that I am developing. =)
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Course I've seen some go the other way to. I recently saw a GM allow 3 ray of frost freeze a body solid so it would float up from the bottom of the ocean and be preserved. Dropping a chandalier on them killed 2 minataur barbarians. No fantastic rolls or anything, he just liked the cinimatic feel so it killed them both. With that GM 'standar' activities like attack with a sword of casting a spell at an opponent were almost a waste of time.
It was a very wierd esperience. Especially coming at me back-to-back with the first type of GM.

I don't know, tricking the bad guys has definitely worked for our group thus far. But for the most part I find this kind of ingenuity most useful out of combat.

My general rule of thumb for my own games is that if there are rules on how to do something, they should be followed first. If someone comes up with an idea that isn't covered in the rules you then do your best to arbitrate how it should work.

As combat is much more rules heavy than any other part of pathfinder, this means that's it's usually a lot easier to make use of creative ideas and plots for things beyond the realm of murdering the monsters in my games.

Now DMG is likely to do things a little differently, FGG certainly takes liberties with their designs but from what I have seen thus far, his philosophy seems to be somewhat similar.

It even goes for combat too. I will try to think of an example.

When running my own games I'm much more inclined to allow the cinematic flavour to over-rule the "crunch" when warranted. Of course in those golden moments where they blend its gold:

Case in point from my Iobarian Saga...

For my own part I'm loving the game, very interested to see how the various skeins of fate intertwine.

Ok I thought of an example of this thinking applying even in combat.

The Farmhouse Ambush scene in Wizard's Amulet. Nothing wrong with how you guys did it, you won.

But check out how the fresh back from 6 months AD&D group did it.

Ambush sprung, they're surrounded by 5 zombies and 6 fiendish skeletons, pre-buffed CR 3 necromancer in the woods, Imp with at-will invisibility, DR, Regeneration and ability damage stinger flying around, 2 archers firing from cover and concealment.

They are 5 level 1 PC's, 15 point buy, CRB only.

They never rolled a single attack roll against any of the undead or the two archers.

Everyone immediately stormed the wizard. Going from memory I think everyone delayed until after the tank who charged out and soaked AoO's. I think there was also a tumble check and a fighting defensively involved to get past the ring of skeletons.

The imp didn't know who had the amulet, everyone was carrying a pebble with a cantrip cast on it to ping on his detect magic.

They beat down the wizard, through a bag of flour on the imp and killed it too. Threw Vortigern's coin purse to the archers and told them to take a hike (some intimidate or diplomacy rolls involved I think). Then they just left. The skeletons disapeared after 5 rounds back to hell, and the zombies lumbered after them all the way to fairhill where the town guards shot them down.

It's the same outcome, a win is a win... sorta. They got more XP (specific ad hoc story awards on every other page of these adventures), they got rid of a recurring foe. Changed the narrative. And sure there were no more encounters before they got somewhere to rest but there could have been. You never know what's around the next bend. Resource attrition is a big thing in these games. You learn to set your eyes on a prize.

That is pretty close to how I would have chosen to handle it even in a 'standard' PF game. I almost always chose to target the caster first especially if he seems to be the one in charge. High armor guy can usually survive quite a few AoO against normal skeletons.
Now some GM's wouldn't give you much chance of intimidating the archers to leave. So depending on the GM, I might have pressed the attack on the archers.
I wouldn't usually assume the skeletons would go away in a few rounds so if they were still fighting we would have taken them on after the archers.
And I think I would have used missile fire to stop the zombies rather than leave them wandering.
(Those last 2 might depend upon how mercenary-neutral I was and what the mission parameters were.

But yes, there are some groups that will try to fight everything in sequence. Go through the skeletons, then the zombies, then the archers, and then finally the necromancer. But that is, in my opinion, horrible tactics for any group. Need to shut down casters and archers as quickly as possible.

Of course it's a lot easier to coordinate at a table.

Nailing casters and archers. That is why you have a monk in the party.

Of course it's a lot easier to coordinate at a table.

This is so true, it takes time and coordination to develope the level of teamwork in your above example. I very much hope to get to that point with this group!

Oh you guys are definitely already starting to do it. And look at how much Samduc impacted the narrative with one clever idea. That's what it's all about.

I liked the encounter at the woods. I think it challenged the status quo and added exotic creatures. The initial spell can be described with more of an animate dead flavor text--that is probably the angle I would have taken, which would imply the creatures aren't going anywhere.

Once Janna went down, Sam's priorities put saving her way ahead of getting the wizard. My first group had a Band of Brothers mentality. Letting the bad guy go to save one fallen character was how we used to roll. In Age of Worms we had to back down from a winning fight to keep one of our own from being hit while sleeping.

I like the idea of groups getting together when they can to form up and head out in a sandbox format. I am highly considering starting a kingdom building/sandbox adventure sometime. Unfortunately trotting out old AD&D modules in pathfinder format is taking my time now. I think I borrowed the idea from the Treesinger.

My old friend Paul Riegel wrote Border Watch in the nineties. I am still tempted to bring that story to life on the boards sometime. He crafted a great story, but today I think people would call it railroady and make choo choo noises.

There were 2 scrolls used. Animate dead on the slain family well in advance. That's why the corpses detected evil. They were already zombies laying there. Then summon monster 3 for the skeletons. The zombie family just stands up when they hear the last word from the summon monster scroll.

Not to divert this thread off of its purpose, but Samduc and Ghaelja have mentioned being in games with me/in my games and I have been wanting to start a new PBP game that is pretty heavily house ruled. This is for the purpose of introducing those rules into my home game at some point, but want to experiment with it here.

I'm thinking of doing another Age of Worms game as I have most of the hard work done in terms of maps and conversions and that could save me time allowing me to run another game.

If anyone is interested send me a PM to see if there is enough interest

Okay, so i kind of lurk all three games because i found the other two games parties to be pretty interesting. Won't lie, was kinda bummed all three games were pretty slow today. We must all be fairly busy. Hope everyone has a great Friday!

-Posted with Wayfinder

It happens sometimes - I'm sure we'll get back on track asap.

Yeah, oddly enough I had plenty of time to post yesterday and something interesting to talk about! But I certainly can't complain, I've had my days where I couldn't keep up with posting.

Usually, I have a fair amount of bored free time at work to think about how to respond and put it up.
The last couple days at work have been pretty brutal. Hopefully next week should be better.

It happens to the best of us Wilfort.

It seems our fearless leader is a little tied up as well :P Though if anyone deserves to take a respite from the break neck pace it's him :)

I wasn't tied up! I was trying to listen to the feedback that I was getting about people feeling overwhelmed and unable to keep up!

Feeling a little under the weather but I'll be back in full swing over the next few days :D

Hold tight guys, swamped with work. Updates tomorow.

Sorry I've been struggling to keep up guys, I'll be back in full force soon, don't worry I'll never abandon the game. Just been one thing thing after another this week!

Don't sweat it, sometimes life is like that. I'm sure you'll be back on your game in no time :)

No worries - am swamped myself sah!

I'm working on an obsidian portal page for the mega-campaign. No one will be required to make use of it but I think it will help add to the depth and richness of the project. I like some of the functionality they have over there, like the wiki. It will help me keep organized and present certain things in a more accessible way I think, rather then having them buried in the threads.

This sounds like an excellent idea!

Never used it before, worth a try.

I've seen it used for great effect once or twice before - Have been tempted to use it myself but never got around to it. Sounds like a great idea Grimmy.

Epic words is nice too

Looked into making use of OP before their kickstarted/revamp...Haven't looked into it at all since the change, but this would give me a good excuse to check it out.

It's pretty sweet because it's structured like a wiki and you can control visibility of certain things so that's nice for player secrets. Or say the party has an epic item but they don't know it, I can keep track of what's what until someone spellcrafts it or whatever.

That would be bloody amazing. I'm in the process of data entrying Rise of the Runelord into Fantasy Grounds, and saw a youtube tutorial do something similar the item thing, but they were in the D&D4ed rule set, and might have been on an earlier version of FG...so I haven't been able to puzzle out how to do it in the PF ruleset.

There's no content up yet but here's the address:

Obsidian Portal Page

It is already looking good Grimmy - I like the Background image :D

I just found a high res version so it looks better now! The OG artist had the image up on deviantart.

Looks amazing DMG!

What kind of info should I get up there first?

So I'm working on the Loot Trackers for the other two groups (thanks again Damien for filling out the Wizard's Amulet one). Quick question for Damien or GM Blood, does the "Dividing the Spoils" interact with the individual tabs in any automated way or is it just a tool for splitting up big piles of loot?

If it does interact I've yet to figure out how. For the most part I would use it mainly to keep track of big ticket magical items and large amounts of gold. Unless you want to get really picky about the small stuff it's best to just use it as a temp holding area while you figure out who is carrying what?

I'm probably going to take the smaller stuff of our the main tab of ours in future.

Yeah it's almost more trouble then it's worth maybe? Seems like it will cause confusion especially with coins.

Unless we purged it as we went?

Yeah, I plan on purging the coins periodically. Will likely do so tomorrow.

I like it for the big ticket items. Helpful to have a list of those.