If you want to be super picky about it, War Drummer modified weapon proficiency, while Urban Skald modifies armor proficiency.
I have no idea about the retraining rules, but I generally allow you to drop features of an archetype if you want to. If two archetypes overlap on like one item, I usually allow people to drop one from a singular class if they want to. If you want to drop part of an archetype, just do it. What are you thinking to get rid of?
Also, if two archetypes change something and they don't overlap in a bad way, I'd allow it. I'd say Urban Skald and War Drummer overlap, you just take both changes to their proficiencies.
If you took Tiger Totem, the Dexterity bonus would be an enhancement bonus, not a morale bonus, so it wouldn't stack with any increases people got from something like ABP.
totem empathy seems a poor trade for improved uncanny dodge...
War painter looks to be a good archetype also...
I didn't notice that the totemic bonuses are enhancement .. that is less awesome. Evasion is really the clear winner there ...
Evasion is really the clear winner there ...
Oh yeah. It's weird that it's even an option. It's so good that it makes the others look like non-options.
I suppose it could be less good for the Hunter, if only because it's affecting less people. In a game where you're buying gear to boost your ability scores, being able to table that gold and spend it on something else could be super useful. In this situation, though? Especially since they aren't morale bonuses (which I thought initially), I agree that Evasion seems like the best option. If you wish, do feel free to change your totem to something else you feel is appropriate for the character, as long as it makes sense that this animal could convey Evasion.
War Painter and Totemic Skald don't stack unfortunately, due to spell kenning overlapping. If you want, you can drop the effects of one of them to get the other.
Also, in my opinion I will say that an Urban Skald/War Painter could choose different individual bonuses for each character they apply the paint to, so you could give the dexterous party members Dexterity while the beefier members of the party get Strength, or whatever you choose to do with it.
So I think I will go with Jak Sunnajak, a half-giant skald with the war drummer, totem skald, and urban skald archetypes.
No one in the small village of Ryjakstoft said a word about Jak's strange son with the flame red hair, for a healthy child was a gift in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings. Though he was born a normal-sized child, Jak Sunnajak grew rapidly both in size and strength. By the time he was eleven, he was as tall as most fully-grown men. Five years later when he reached sixteen, Jak was the size of any two of his village.
Old Jak, as most now called him, treated Jak as well as one could hope in such a brutal land. Old Jak and Svanveig never spoke of the events of that trip, and though some speculation arose from Jak's great stature and total lack resemblance to his father, it faded and died by the time he reached his full growth.
Jak only rarely spoke, but he showed early a remarkable talent for drumming. It was said in Ryjakstoft that Jak's drums could communicate almost as clearly as the spoken word. Often children would taunt Jak, as children are wont, but rare was the exchange where Jak's drummed retorts failed to leave his tormentor quivering in rage.
The shaman and the skalds were always glad to see Jak, for his sense of rhythm was perfect and many was the ritual that featured Jak as the drummer.
When the orcs came out of the mountains during the winter of Jak's 19th year, the village might have fallen if not for Jak's mighty club and, more importantly, his drumming. The villagers found that they could fight longer, hit harder, and more easily avoid all the blows of the enemy when Jak drummed near them.
The orcs were thrown back, but Svanveig was slain in the fighting.
When Old Jak died of lung fever two winters after, Jak found that he could not stay with his people. His empty home, the village full of the ghosts of his family, and the pitying looks of the other villagers drove him out and onto the road.
Jak has learned that few outside the Ulfen can understand his drumming as clearly as his own people did, and that he must speak more often than he once did. Never able to be comfortable anywhere for long, Jak has finally ended up in Absalom, and has heard of a boat that will go to places few men have gone and frome which fewere still have returned. Perhaps he will find comfort there, perhaps not. But at least it is no longer here.
EDIT:
You ninja'd my post... ;)
I would feel pretty cheesy stacking four archetypes together. I really like the combination of urban skald with war drummer, the idea of trying to use drumming to stand in for talking seems to fit him really well.
So if you are okay with me combining those two with either totemic skald or war painter...
That is going to be a tough choice; I like them both...
Well, I think Totemic Skald gives a bit more versatility in that it grants the party Evasion. However, War Painter potentially has a lot more use depending on how you interpret Bardic Performance. it doesn't seem to be directly stated in the rules, but I have always assumed the bard would need to have their capacity to perform at all times. War Painter would, I suppose, give you the ability to be present in the fight if you so chose. It also lets people have personalized ability score bonuses, which is helpful. I have always pictured skalds as being very present in the fighting in addition to performing, but that's just my personal taste. Much of the way I interpret the class largely comes from figures like Egill Skallagrimsson of Iceland, which is probably why.
Of course, while I think about it nothing in the rules as they're written requires you to actually continue to perform on your instrument as far as I can tell; it actually never says you have to at all, although that's always been my assumption. So, technically I suppose you don't actually have to do that, and thus that advantage is nil. I do love the visual aesthetic of the War Painter, but it may be the less advantageous choice.
Thinking on it, you could always use Urban Skald to boost everyone's Constitution. Donkor, with Inspire Courage, has the capacity to boost attack and damage already, while you could raise everyone's hit points. That's helpful to everyone, and gives Marcus an extra edge due to his Kineticist abilities.
Yeah I really like Urban Skald. It is more flexible and does not prevent people from using their "thinky" abilities.
As interesting and versatile as the war painter is, I am pretty comfortable with the totemic skald.
Also, and I know this is technically an archetype, but the drumming made me think of it. How would you feel about spheres of power with the skald?
I have absolutely no experience with Spheres of Power. Every time I get linked to the rules I try to find out the basics so I understand everything else about it, and I fail to find them. I have pretty much no idea how they work. Looking at their wiki they seem to have finally reorganized it, so I'll take a look. My initial answer right this moment is probably no, but we'll see. I think I'd prefer to have more time to look over the rules and figure out how they work before I delve into them.
Give me a day or two to look at them, and I'll see what I think.
I think they would be both excellent choices when it comes to archetypes, they just give different things. I think I may have to play a War Painter Skald some time in the future...
it is fine. it can wait for a different character.
I started to play a sphere shaman that had to play a ritual drums to use his magic. The game died really early so it is a character i keep in the back of my head. The drumming made me think of it...
Hey all, I've been away from the forums for a while and am just now catching up. Looks like we have a lot of cool stuff going on, and I'll need to think on what I want to play. If Emissary is switching to a Grenadier, I may make a Ranger who'd switch-hit archery and melee to some extent--I picked up Shadow of Mordor on sale and I've been having a fun time playing that, so I may do something along those lines. If we'd like a blaster caster, though, I could rework Prophet into a sorcerer--I have a neat, fun, and powerful build for a half-orc sorcerer who focuses on damage output.
Earlier I'd said I may do a swashbuckler type, but with a number of Dex-focused types in the party already I might branch out into something with a little more versatility, or just filling a different role. I'll think on it a bit more.
I do not care for the Oradin build. I can either go full paladin or make an oracle. Paladin would be a front-liner with some healing abilities. While the Oracle would have a lot of healing, some damage spells, and a few of the divination spells.
Jon if I were to go Oracle is there a way that I could have two mystery's? I could sink a feat or take a second curse.
Still buried under trying to get some of my games off of the ground so I did not have time to get my build done yet. Hoping to have that Bard ready to go this weekend, all I really need to do is scale back the Profile but that takes time too.
@Prophet: As you know, I green-lit the Spell-less Ranger, so that'd be fine with me. As I told Theo when he talked to me via PM, I don't know that we need a Sorcerer as Emissary will be a dedicated ranged combatant, but if that concept intrigues you more I don't think it would necessarily hurt the party or anything. Your Swashbuckler-type is still intriguing, and do remember that someone is going to need to know how to sail a boat. Even if it isn't you, someone definitely ought to pick up some ranks in Profession (Sailor).
@Theo: I think either one works, they just give the party different things. The oracle would definitely be the stronger healer of the two, which wouldn't hurt at all. I'm a little hesitant on having two mysteries; which two are you thinking. Also, are you still considering the Seer archetype? I think that archetype could do some interesting things for the party. Still, I did like the backstory you pitched for the paladin.
@Storyteller Shadow: No worries, I'm still working out the starting adventure so there's no real rush.
If you're looking at playing a healer, I'm a huge fan of the Life Shaman. Their healing is passive and constant, so it still leaves you free to do other things. They can still burst-heal with Channel, but they don't need to do it as often because everyone effectively has Fast Heal 5. Having a familiar means being able to effectively use touch healing spells at range too.
Also, having an Improved Familiar that can use wands lets you get a wand of Friend Sheild (or just cast it on them with Share Spells). Then, your "take the party's damage for them" ability gets split. An ally heals 5, you take 3, and your familiar takes 2 (which it heals with Fast Healing).
With Quickened Channel, a Life Shaman grants passive Fast Heal 5 to everyone, can Channel as a Move Action, and gets a Standard action for themselves, and still has their familiar's entire action for the round.
It's a pretty sweet setup for a healer.
I like Life Oracles personally, especially coupled with Paladin levels. You can Lay on Hands yourself as a swift action to counteract any serious damage you end up taking from Life Link, and again have the Channel to help heal your party if needed. Without Paladin levels the Life Oracle can be a little weaker, but it can still heal the damage or itself if necessary. For some reason I don't have this written down, but I allow the standard healing spells to work at Close range rather than Touch. Both of them are very good healers, though. That's a pretty powerful combination with the Life Shaman, I may have to try that if I ever play a Shaman in a game. Seems very useful.
Interest was expressed in the Seer archetype for the Oracle, which as I said would be pretty unique. Divination is a very useful ability, and also it gives me excuses to give neat plot hook visions.
Oracle it is. I think I will keep him a half or with the same backstory. Maybe a level or two of paladin. I am on the fence about that one but he will still follow the paladin code.
The mysteries would be life and water I think. I can get a sure answer Sunday after my live game. And I am fine with a second curse or really anything. I would assume it would work like the crossblooded sorcerer. I would still only get them when an oracle does or if I sink the feat extra mystery.
Though I recall losing two to the seer archetype, which I will definitely be using. So pleantly of healing, so divination, a little if the boom spells, and some melee abilities, not a lot but some though that seems covered.
I am playing a life shaman in a different game. I just like oracle better to though that is a fun one. It is the potential fluff for the seer though that has never going oracle. I love that route!
A level or two of Paladin can always be fun, and it does help with healing yourself. Still, Oracle does well with that on its own. As for mysteries... I don't know. I may have to say no, just because that could easily become unbalanced. I don't think there's any mechanical way to do this as it stands, unfortunately. Let me think on it, but I wouldn't count on it.
Been talking with Prophet's player through other means, he's got two character concepts he's mulling over, but I think one of the two may have come out on top.
I'm generally against Multiclassing with full casters. No matter what you get from other classes it usually isn't worth the hit to spell progression.
That tends to be my issue as well Marcus. Those spell levels are precious.
As to the two mysteries I understand the reluctance and I will obey the decision you come to. I simply figured I would ask since you are willing to flex the rules sometimes and not everyone is. Being able to mix one like a crossblooded sorcerer can be helpful. But mostly because I am not as fond of the life one. They are useful but that mystery leaves me feeling like a one trick pony and I only like three of them.
Shamans get a second Spirit. They can even change it out every day...
There's also the Ring of Revelation. It can be used in a roundabout way to get an ability from another mystery.
it's supposed to grant an extra ability from a mystery you already have, but because of the way it is worded, an Oracle can Use Magic Device to activate it.
So your Life Oracle could gain a Water Mystery ability for the cost of 10k gold, a ring slot, and a bunch of ranks in UMD.
I've always been sort of disappointed that there's no official way to build an Oracle with two mysteries. I had a really cool idea for an Oracle of Azathoth who had both the Solar and Dark Tapestry mysteries but I couldn't find a way to make it work.
On another note, I wanted to ask if anyone was interested in the Chronicles of Darkness (you might know it as New World of Darkness) system. I've been looking at running an old game idea I had, but it sort of fell apart due to me not being all that experienced yet and making the very bad decision of running it as a crossover.
If that's your reasoning, I can understand that well enough. I'm guessing by Water you meant Waves? What other stuff are you hoping to be able to do? I think I have an idea of how I'd let you take two mysteries. What are the things from the Waves mystery you're hoping to get at some point? Are there any other mysterious besides those two you're considering?
The Dark Tapestry is one of my favorite ones along side Spellscar, Ancestor, and Lore. Those both made fun enemies in the game I run.
From the life one the only ones I would really want are channel, life link, and maybe energy body and lifesense. I am playing a life oracle in RotRL right now and those are the big ones I like.
Sorry I meant Waves. Typing when sleepy is never wise. Fluid Travel, Punitive Transformation, Water Form, Water Sight, and the rest I could be happy with. It fits the setting and due to the Seer archetype he would not realize this is one of his mysteries until there.
Nor can I spend a feat on it since I want to use a longsword.
The Lore one fits very will with the Seer archetype and any of the mysteries would be lovely.
Ancestor would fit his goals and personality rather well and would be the one I would love to have if I took a solo one.
I am more than happy to blend the life one with any of those cause having lots of healers is a good thing.
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I am monitoring the thread, got most of Garrick (as that's my Tiefling Grenadier's name) done.
Theo, I can point you to This trait to get Longsword proficiency. Don't know how well it would fit your background, but it is indeed an option.
Oh I know there are traits that can give me a proficiency I just had not gotten there yet
I will work on getting my skald put together over the next couple of days .. a weekend away with family pretty well disrupted my plans to have that done...
Both Ancestor and Lore seem to mesh very well with the Seer archetype, and they'd both lend you some other utility that could be useful. I think I'll give you a second curse as the Dual-Cursed Oracle, so you don't gain any later benefits. You also only gain the extra class skills from one mystery. Seer replaces almost all your bonus spells, so no reason to worry about that.
No worries on not having characters ready, no rush. When people are done, we'll get started.
Thank you :) I will work on it after some much needed sleep.
I bumped up Marcus' stats.
Are we leveling up as well? I forget.
My PC will be ready for tomorrow JD.
No, the prequel adventure is Level 2. You'll level up by the end so you'll be Level 3 at the beginning of the adventure proper.
Good to know on the character being done tomorrow! Once everyone has their characters in I'll go through and do some audits on all the sheets to make sure stuff is up to snuff. I'm loving all the ideas I've seen for characters so far. If you guys change stuff for your backstory, let me know so I can look over it again. I like to work PC backstories into my games so the more I can get from everyone, the better.
My entire rework, including a revised backstory, is all up on the profile.
Same.
No idea what to spend my money on though. I'll probably pick up a bunch of masterwork tools and exploration gear.
I missed work due to a nerve issue. I will probably miss tomorrow since I can still barely walk. If I can sit up long enough I will get him done. Sorry for the delay.
Yeah sorry for the delay there, I've been busy trying to get my games all up and running again. I think I did 13 or 14 I/C updates on games I DM yesterday alone...
Marcus, for whatever reason your backstory spoiler shows me absolutely nothing. I was looking at sheets and I just wanted to mention that so you knew.
I've heard from a couple people that characters will be wrapped up soon, so it won't be long before we get started. Once a few more people are done I'll start my sheet audits.
That's because all of Marcus' original character stuff was worked out in Discussion and PMs and I forgot to write it out on his sheet.
I'll take care of that. Thanks for the reminder.
Can I take the trait Sea Souled? Lastwall has some rivers and a coast line on Lake Encarthan.
@Marcus: Gotcha. I know sometimes spoilers just... don't work, so I wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those.
@Theo: Sure.
looking at traits with pain meds is apparently not wise. I was looking at a different trait and confused them. I am wanting the skill as a class skill. Can I instead take touched by the sea? I would be justifying it though the mystery thing.
Sorry pain meds have mellowed a bit.
Level 2 HP = = 1/2+1 Instead - 5+1 HP Con - 6.
Submission complete.
Jon, Since the half-giant has no alternate racial traits, are you willing to/have time to choose a few that are appropriate for them?
No worries if not...
Also, would you be willing to consider replacing the psionic stuff with fire resist 5 rather than just dropping it all?
Again, no worries if not...
Neither of those will change my mind...
Theo, that's also fine. Knock yourself out.
I can try to think up some alternate ones, or if you have ideas for stuff you specifically want to replace let me know and I'll think on those. If you want, write up what you think is a fair trade for something and I'll approve it if I like it. Whichever works for me.
Fire resistance makes sense, so go for it.
I found several threads that discuss the hit dice of the skald. I wonder if you would be open to changing skalds from d8s (what bards get) to d10s (the die that is between bards and barbarians).
I would like to draw two traits from half-orc as they fit his background fairly well.
I would like to take Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice. Are they okay, and if so, what would you like to pair them against for replacement?
EDIT: Would it be allowable to use the human favored class bonus for the skald?
EDIT EDIT: Given his background and focus on drumming, would you be okay with me using Perform(percussion) to mimic bluff and sense motive instead of Perform(sing)
Sleep helped alot. Jon I sent you an email since I am a little unsure of the curse I want.
I just to figure out the curse and finish writing out the backstory and he should be done.
That's a good point on hit dice. Actually, only this and the Warpriest don't seem to meet in the middle or go with the higher of the two, from what I can tell. I think the logic is that it has a lower HD because it's a 6th level caster with 3/4 BAB, as no other caster like that (bard, magus, inquisitor, etc.) has a d10 hit die. Let me think on it, because I feel like that requires consideration. If I do, I'll probably also at least make the warpriest and magus have a d10 hit die as well. I'll come up with something later, tonight I had some very serious personal stuff crop up that is hopefully on its way to being resolved, but tomorrow? Probably.
Those traits are fine. However, why do you want Shaman's Apprentice? If you plan to take Diehard, you don't need Endurance for that. I remove it as a prerequisite for most things because it feels like a tax. As for what they replace, you lose a lot of psionic stuff. Gaining fire resistance in addition to the +2 racial bonus on saves against fire isn't worth losing three abilities. You can lose the Survivor or Powerful Build if you want both, but just one won't cost you anything since you lose a lot of psionic stuff. I might recommend against Shaman's Apprentice unless you really want Endurance itself for some reason.
Theo, I saw the PM but haven't replied. I'll do that ASAP.
Loup Blanc's character build here, with appearance and personality as well. Backstory should be up soon, I hope--I know we've talked about the basics, Jon, but I'm planning to get the full thing typed up and posted when I can. In terms of party roles and plans, Derrick's a frontliner and switch-hitter, very solid with a bow as well as his sword. His combat style is archery, but that's mainly for a few decent feats down the line--as time goes forward, he'll probably focus mainly on staying power at the front. He's also got a decent skill setup that can adapt and grow as time goes on.
Hey, that's what I already used to calculate.
Loup Blanc's character build here, with appearance and personality as well. Backstory should be up soon, I hope--I know we've talked about the basics, Jon, but I'm planning to get the full thing typed up and posted when I can. In terms of party roles and plans, Derrick's a frontliner and switch-hitter, very solid with a bow as well as his sword. His combat style is archery, but that's mainly for a few decent feats down the line--as time goes forward, he'll probably focus mainly on staying power at the front. He's also got a decent skill setup that can adapt and grow as time goes on.
[dice=HP]1d10 Hey, that's what I already used to calculate.
Hey, didn't I kill you in Ravenloft, what are you doing here? Damn mists malfunctioning again...