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How do you figure? It takes 18 seconds to fix position to a 5' square, which is a long time in melee. That's if they don't move. (And depending on the GM, the clock resets if they move out of the detection cone.) Then you still have to contend with the horrendous miss chance.
And I'm not clear on what Detect Magic has to do with skillful stealth?
Not being argumentative, just wondering what I'm missing. Our local group went 'round and 'round on dealing with invisible baddies last year, and most everything the players could come up with, the two GMs shot down.
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You can not see magic auras on invisible creatures. So stats the first line under the invisibility section on the PRD.
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If the imp has mythic invisibility were all screwed.
Because any magical item on a level 20 Rogue with a +80 stealth check means a lvl 1 can see his location with detect magic up. Yes, it is very GM specific, but it sounds like your other GMs were very butt hurt that their super awesome npc invisibility thing would be taken out "too easy" by the party.
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Well that's more accurately "defeat any level of stealth if the character happens to have a magic item on him." :o) Nor does it invalidate the other issues. Based on my understanding (an admittedly limited one as a relative newcomer to Pathfinder, which is why I asked), Detect Magic, Detect Evil, etc. aren't useful counter-invisibility tools in melee. (That's why "There's an app spell for that!")
... it sounds like your other GMs were very butt hurt that their super awesome npc invisibility thing would be taken out "too easy" by the party.
Heh, you rolled a 1 on your Assumption Check. Nothing of the sort, actually. Following a battle that included invisibles (and which would have resulted in a TPK had the antagonists' goal not been to enslave us), there was extensive discussion of what happened why, and what tactics would have worked better than what we tried. And because "the other GM" is always a player in any of our games, it was examined in considerable depth.
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OK, since the discussion continues:
Creatures shouldn't be able to move out of the detection area since players are in theory not mannequins who only move on their initiatives.
The game says that fights are fluid with constant action, we should be able to act like that at all times. In other spells that have a set area, I totally agree that if the target moves out, they stop being under the effect of the spell. However, Detection spells do not have a set area. Detection spells have a cone effect where they function, but the location of that cone effect can change at will with a simple turn of the head. RAW is very ambiguous on when spell areas can be moved as a free action.
I have always played it like someone following a fly with a swatter. You keep your eyes open and moving, and once you spot it, you can stay "on target" for as long as necessary, regardless of where the fly moves to. In terms of this scenario, IMO, Zander could spin around, looking for a ping of something magical, and then stay with it long enough to determine if it illusion based or not. If the aura flies over his head, he could just follow it by looking up.
I honestly don't care about how it plays out in this scene, as based on those linked threads, I am in the clear minority. I try for a "realistic" game, I also employ alternate status effects and hinderances on my players because I feel it would make sense. Example: PC's were chasing a group of NPCs. One of the PC's got far ahead of the group and caught the NPCs. They responded by breaking his leg so that he couldn't continue the chase. I ruled that whenever those specific HP damages were magically healed, his leg was magically able to support his weight again. Is it RAW, hell no, but in makes for a very cinematic scene.
While it may say that combat is really fluid, etc., the rules are awfully specific about what you can do when and how often you can do it. There are relatively few immediate actions (often requiring feats), and there is the opportunity to do an AoO now and then, and then there are readied actions that have to be rather specifically spelled out. Every time someone takes a 5' step back I would expect my character to take a 5' step with them to maintain distance, but to do that I need a feat or to wait until my turn.
The main problem with following the imp with detect magic is that you initially have no idea where the creature is to follow it. That only comes up as round Detect Blank round 3. Before that, you are looking in a direction and find that, hey, there is magic there - possibly something on the wall, or a teammate who happens to be standing in the way, or a magic fly in front of your nose, or all of the above. Second round, you get aura types and strengths but still no numbers of items/creatures or positions. It takes you the full three rounds to figure out what is there and where. Once you do have that position information from the spell, I could see following an item with the spell - possibly. Only possibly since, with the detect spells, it also very specifically says you can turn a different direction and scan that area the next round.
(One reason to have a 3-round delay is that otherwise a simple cantrip suddenly removes the power of invisibility, and probably quite a few in-combat other effects, too.)
I don't see where you get that detection spells don't have a set area. It reads as "Range 60 ft. - Area cone-shaped emanation" just the same as any other such spell, and no difference is described in its function.
As I understand PFS play, it expects DMs to adhere as close as possible to RAW/RAI (and to try to best parse out when those two don't agree).
Grumbling ignored! :-P
Now can we get back to complaining about a certain extraplanar elf?
I'll wait to see what everyone does while the imp is still stunned by the color spray (not necessarily that long, since it has more HD than you do...), but Kawrock and/or Vyk Tyr should totally be licking their lips, without explanation, when they leave the room.
So, Kawrock, if you decide to do a run of this group through a scenario, in particular "The Confimation", I might like to take your place with a 1st level (1 GM credit) Diviner. All of my active characters are clerics (well, one oracle of life) so I'd like to try something else, and I'd like to play that scenario since I am likely to get it eventually to add to my beginner's repertoire.
Yeah, I sent Eurydes a PM, just in case he lost the thread and didn't know how to maneuver the site properly (or whatever).
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I did some tinkering today and I am leaning toward using roll20 for the maps. It is going to require setting up an account with them but it is free. One of the reasons I like it so far is I can set it so you can each control your own token on the map. I can also control how much of the map is shown and some other nice things.
I am using MapTools and image captures, but the Roll20 way (or the Google drive way) has the advantage of letting people move their own tokens. I like MapTools because of the dynamic vision and lighting potential, which I've used on some campaigns' maps, and those features cost on Roll20, as I understand it.
I might switch to Roll 20, but I am not sure whether switching (or re-tryng to learn more about MapTools) is worth the effort or not.
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I'm not suggesting it for this -- it'd be overkill since PbP isn't realtime -- but just for general interest have you guys looked at 3D Virtual Tabletop? It runs under iOS, Android, or within any browser once the required plugin is loaded. I was impressed enough with it to throw a few bucks on the Kickstarter just as a vote of support. Our group isn't using it (they're still d20 Pro mostly) so I haven't pulled down the latest release, but I played with the preview both on my Android phone and in Comodo Dragon, and it was really slick.
Check out the demo videos at least (particularly the one that shows lighting effects/Fog of War) -- it's pretty cool.
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I am currently checking with one of my local GM's who was expressing interest in PbP. If he declines than your friend is certainly welcome. Also got to play in The Confirmation last night and it is rather interesting. There are several combats, but they have randomly rolled encounters, something new to PFS scenarios.
Random encounters? Hmm. Interesting. That might be good for a scenario that gets replayed often, keeping it a little different and interesting each time. The downside could be the extra text needed to properly detail extra encounters, which seems to be a limiting factor in really making some scenarios shine.
Ah. Well, still could add so variety for returning players, it seems.
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One group had all of the keys still and one of the players had the idea to put everything back the way that it was, or as near as possible, and then say "What keys?" when he asked for them. (Keeping the map and wand, of course.)
Hehe... that's great! :o) I'm pretty lucky that our local group has that kind of mentality. Decades ago it got to the point we had to institute a 25 cent "pun tax" to keep things reined in, but the "Stupid PC Tricks" live on. "What keys?" is just the sort of thing they'd do!
Tuich - That sounds like a great group. :-)
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It is. Good guys, the lot of them. We go all the way back to the days of AD&D, RuneQuest, and the like... wouldn't have lasted from then 'til now if they weren't all quality folks. We're spread across multiple states these days, so have to play virtually (currently using d20 Pro and Mumble).
The Saturday after Christmas four of the original seven are getting together for dinner and the second Hobbit movie. Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to that. Sure, we play (and talk) pretty much every weekend, but I haven't physically seen some of these guys for years. Good stuff!
Yeah, unfortunately my gaming group scattered after college, but there wasn't the virtual gaming support that there is now. (I assume that everyone is too busy with jobs and families to put much time into it now, but I need a little something to keep me sane (or more sane than otherwise) since I am a stay-at-home dad.)
Losing my gaming group, I pretty much stopped all gaming (Call of Cthulhu and Star Fleet Battles were our games, mostly) and didn't get back into it until a bit of 3.5 and then PF less than a year ago now. Before that, my D&D experience was 1e AD&D, so a long time ago, indeed.
We got together briefly for my wedding 5 years ago, but it takes a lot of money and planning to get people from Alaska, southern California, and the east coast all together for anything.
Hopefully a dinner and a good group of friends will make up for any deficiencies in the Hobbit movie.
Hi all,
Although we got a little bit yet, we could get a little ahead and make any day job checks now (or let me know that you don't have one to make).
You can also post purchases here, including those made with prestige points, if you would like the formal record to be showing up on the boards somewhere.
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A tengu getting peckish... heh. That'd be a quarter in the jar. :o)
We got out of sync between chests and keys for a while there, that might be what's tripping you up. Copper-banded wood chest, illusion. Red-lacquered chest had (I believe) the door key. Steel chest had the map and wand. We covered 'em all.
GMFZ, I think "I got nothin'." Since Tuich was cloned off a just-starting "wanderer" character she has no day job, first PFS game so no Prestige Points, and essentially broke.
Lady Adelaide, maybe you and I can at least go window shopping. :o)
And this might help a little with the Prestige Points thing (also links to the PFS guides).
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Lady Adelaide, this PFS Purchasing Tutorial might also help.
Ah, thanks Kawrock. Not sure how to know what we'll be getting ahead of time, though. Based on what little I've read about the second Prestige Point coming from faction tasks (and how that's all changed anyway), it seems like this will be a single PP scenario? And no clue if we'll reap any gold at all, or how much if so.
Thus I'm not sure how I would "pre-order" anything (except, I guess, for a 1 Prestige Point thingum). Is there something I'm missing/misunderstanding?
Also (and unrelated), I'm curious as to how Chronicle Sheets are handled in online/virtual games when the GM can't hand over a physical page.
As for purchasing, expect to get about 417 gp from this adventure, and it is actually worth 2 PP (I can already say that you've gotten both of those).
A Wand of Cure Light Wounds, even if you can't use it yourself, is a common purchase with 2 PP sometime before level 2. Hopefully, someone in the group will buy one - I can't remember if Zander already has one - and people will generally be expecting you to contribute to your own out-of-combat healing by about second level or so.
Based on recent experiences, I would suggest that you have something for combating swarms, a blunt weapon, a ranged weapon with both cold iron and cold iron base/alch. silver blanched ammunition (cold iron is cheap and can be used as the base for alch. silver and adamantium blanching), a masterwork backpack (50 gp), waterproof bags (5 sp), an ioun torch (75 gp), and scroll boxes (5 gp and waterproof, unlike scrolls cases).
Yeah, I could probably not be lazy and document purchases you want documented on your Chronicle sheet, although I was also thinking that 'publishing' it on the discussion thread would serve as a record in itself.
Chronicle sheets are done a little differently than in person, and each online GM does it a little differently. Previously, I've printed out chronicle sheets, filled them out, scanned them, uploaded them to my DropBox account, and then sent you a link to the file so you can download it and/or print it out. This time, I might use NitroPDF (free version) to fill out the form, then 'print' them to PDF, then upload them, etc., as before. I'll try to figure out which one is less of a pain.
Usually, players just fill out the purchases and expenditures section themselves in these online games, while the GM fills out the top and bottom and the GP and FP/PP earned parts.
If you have more detailed questions, let me know. :)
(PS-If you sign up for a DropBox file, perhaps you could use my referral link to give me some more free space? I have the link on the "Campaign" page.)
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Yeah, I could probably not be lazy and document purchases you want documented on your Chronicle sheet, although I was also thinking that 'publishing' it on the discussion thread would serve as a record in itself.
If you have more detailed questions, let me know. :)
So if I someday take Tuich down to a PFS table at The Dragon's Den (LGS), do I print out a copy of the forum page showing what was purchased to keep everything legal? (Not being snarky, honestly asking!)
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Stumbled across this while confirming Ghost Salt is PFS-legal. It syncs with, and expands on, GMFZ's suggestions. (Language of the first paragraph tweaked slightly to be stand-alone.):
As you level your PFS characters, you should make sure they are properly prepared for challenges they will encounter! Here's a basic guide for things you should keep in mind:
LOW LEVELS (1-3)
-WEAPONS: Do you have both a ranged and a melee weapon? You don’t always choose the range at which you fight.
-HEALING: Do you have self-healing? A Wand of Cure Light Wounds only costs 2 Prestige Points and has 50 charges--even if you can’t use it, someone else probably can. DO NOT expect other party members to provide healing for you.
-DARKNESS: Do you have a way to see in the non-magical darkness? Whether it’s a torch, a sunrod, a light cantrip or just plain darkvision, you need to be able to see in unlit areas.
-DAMAGE REDUCTION: Do you have a backup weapon with a different damage type? Some monsters have DR that can only be overcome by slashing, piercing or blunt damage.
-SWARM/OOZES: Do you have anti-swarm weapons or anti-ooze options? Older seasons are notorious for swarms. Even a flask or two of Alchemist’s Fire, Acid Flask, etc. can make a difference.
-DID YOU KNOW: …that a knotted rope reduces a climb check to DC 5? Always have a rope handy!
That I actually haven't run into, so this is all hypothetical, although it is the way a VC whose online game I was in did it, so I think it should pass muster. Basically, because the back-and-forth is so cumbersome online, and probably because it can be hard to get all of the necessary information and then get that all on the sheets, it seems like this method has developed as the non-ideal default.
Ideally, the GM would wait for everything to come in and fill out everything before sending it to the players. Or, better, the GM would, like in the gaming store, send a blank chronicle to the players who would fill out most of it and send it back, and then the GM would finish filling it out, sign it and send it back. However, if you have to print it out and re-scan it each time because not everyone can edit these PDF files, well, the quality would really suffer. Of course, I've also been finding that many people don't have scanners, either.
Of course, as with the completely paper versions, it is impossible, at least as they have you fill it out, to tell if you added the purchase history before or after the GM signed it, so perhaps that is not the point of signing off of the sheet, but rather the "GM only" parts of XP track, GP earned, GP earned from Day Job, and the top and the bottom need to be filled out completely. (Changes would be more obvious if the GM put lines through all of the blank spaces so that they couldn't be filled out later, but this is not described in the procedure and would be a pain, online and in person.
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Since you can buy anything for which you qualify, it doesn't seem like it'd matter if you bought stuff before or after the GM signoff. I certainly wouldn't see "Oh frak, I forgot to get that healer's kit" and adding it after the fact as cheating, as long as one's funds were adjusted appropriately. And couldn't a GM use the sheets as an "audit trail" if there was suspicion that a player was trying to get something for nothing?
Or am I misunderstanding?
Just trying to make sure I "get" how all this works. I might never play Tuich "live" but one of our local GMs has gotten into PFS and there's a chance I may go to a game with him sometime. (Which is why I'm taking advantage of this introduction you graciously offered us in the first place!)
Expanding on Tuich's list (and just speaking of the 10 or so Tier 1/1-2 adventures I'm familiar with):
I specifically have "pre-knotted rope (Silk, 50')" written on my sheets, perhaps with at least one set of pitons, grappling hook, and hammer. One scenario was made possible, IMO, by having three ropes.
Several adventures have potentially-fatal snowstorms, so a heatstone could be handy.
Several adventures have magical darkness, making our unprepared, non-darkvision characters practically useless - and even our Continual Flame items didn't work. (Unfortunately, the potion of darkvision costs 300 gp, IIRC...)