| Palisade |
Sense motive: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (1) + 6 = 7 Well, of COURSE the prisoner knows more; we haven't even tortured him yet.
He indicated to the commander, “There was the woman with the answers right there but I doubt she has much to say now.”
Palisade knelt noisily besides the badly burned woman, took a firm grip of her hair and raised her head a few inches to stare into her sightless eyes. "Diagnosis accurate," the 'forged informed casually, releasing its hold so the woman's head reacquainted itself with the floor with an meaty thump. "Prognosis. The likelihood of an uncooperative prisoner meeting the same fate is not inconsiderable."
Palisade's interested in the enchanted shield.
| Palisade |
So... three fireplaces, color-coded. Same code for statues, 2 for each color by the fireplaces, and also mentioned in the hidden text. How did these color-coded seal tiles feature into this? Also, any of those seals/statues/map segments show sign of being able to be moved/rotated?
| Fabian Benavente |
So... three fireplaces, color-coded. Same code for statues, 2 for each color by the fireplaces, and also mentioned in the hidden text. How did these color-coded seal tiles feature into this? Also, any of those seals/statues/map segments show sign of being able to be moved/rotated?
The seals are tiles in the map right in front of the fireplaces.
No sign that you can move anything.
| Fabian Benavente |
So... measurements then? The map was made from octagonal seals. Whitehearth 9 tiles NE from a/the white seal? Is there only one tile of each three colors?
DING, DING, DING
By starting on the octagonal tile with the white Cannith Seal, in front of the white stone fireplace, and measuring nine tiles to the north east, Palisade discovered that the destination tile had a faint symbol of a crossed pick and shovel. This location was approximately thirty miles beyond the graymist border of the Mournland, directly due east of the hamlet of Olkhaan.
Go ahead and RP the 'revelation'.
I intend to recap later today.
Questions?
Game on!
| Palisade |
"Maybe we can use their positions and colors to figure out the location of Whitehearth as well as the others."
Palisade had picked up the fallen commander's shield and was hefting it in a speculative manner, considering its weight and manufacture. It certainly seemed a superior piece of gear and an upgrade to its current piece, but the prominent cult icon on its face was an issue... although in the immediate future it would likely prove a boon, just like unit Squeak's armor, and given time, could no doubt be altered or, it it came to that, merely painted over.
Listening to Lady d'Deneith's suggestion and to the secret messages she had found on the statues, Palisade stepped closer to the map carved on the floor. "Suggestion. Count map times from entry point given in the arcane writing. From the white tile, 9 tiles to the north-east, there seem to be an icon on the map. Would this be relevant?"
A bit later, once someone else has confirmed the finding.
"Query. Before or departure, should we mark the locations of the other facilities mentioned? In the event all point to hidden Cannith forges or strongholds, the information could prove valuable at some later stage."
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
Bronwyn's face lights up at Palisade's suggestion. "That's it!" Knowing better than to clap the 'forged on the shoulder in congratulations, she gives Palisade a quick hug instead. "And Squeak had a good suggestion too. It's very probable that the Sharn workshop is shown on here as well. It would do well to write down all the locations." Seeing that Vi was sketching the map she adds, "Marking the locations on your sketch would be most beneficial for any future endeavours." Her smile widens, if that was possible, "Good job, team!
Then the wizard becomes serious. "If we figured this out then it probably won't take much for someone else to figure it out as well. Is there a way to make sure that someone else doesn't find it? Or at least make it more difficult to slow them down? Maybe if the building burned to the ground creating more rubble..."
Bronwyn claps her hands together, "Right, so we have a location. We best be getting back. I'm guessing we take our prisoner with us and leave him on the outskirts of this place where someone can eventually find him?"
| Palisade |
Bronwyn's face lights up at Palisade's suggestion. "That's it!" Knowing better than to clap the 'forged on the shoulder in congratulations, she gives Palisade a quick hug instead.
Alarmed at the sudden proximity, the 'forged dared not move in fear of causing one of its equipped weapons or a sharp corner of its armor wounding Bronwyn. "Lady d'Deneith, please control yourself," Palisade said, a hint of some emotion in its voice. "Conduct such as this between a soldier and an officer in the same chain of command is unseemly. Horrified pause. Think of what your father would have said."
"If we figured this out then it probably won't take much for someone else to figure it out as well. Is there a way to make sure that someone else doesn't find it? Or at least make it more difficult to slow them down? Maybe if the building burned to the ground creating more rubble..."
"Suggestion. The key was in the arcane writings. Destroy the writing and anyone following will have no help in putting meaning to the multitude of location icons on the map. Addendum. And dispose of the witness," Palisade added as an afterthought, hefting its greatsword as its single-eyed gaze fell on their prisoner, who had heard everything that had been said.
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
Supposedly Vi had covered his eyes and ears so that he wouldn't overhear. However, I'm not sure how good a job she did. And supposedly he knows more than he's telling so they may already know about the arcane marks.
"Conduct such as this between a soldier and an officer in the same chain of command is unseemly. Horrified pause. Think of what your father would have said."
Bronwyn gave an exasperated sigh, completely undeterred by Palisade's objection. The 'forged may be completely correct in his assessment but the wizard was more than capable of reasoning anything in her favour. "How many times do I have to tell you. We're more like family than soldier and officer. And my father would have no problems with me hugging family."
| Palisade |
Supposedly Vi had covered his eyes and ears so that he wouldn't overhear. However, I'm not sure how good a job she did. And supposedly he knows more than he's telling so they may already know about the arcane marks.
Palisade has a blacksmith's kit with him, so he could always hammer in some iron spikes into the prisoner's eyes and ears. That might suffice and would be no trouble at all ;^)
Bronwyn gave an exasperated sigh, completely undeterred by Palisade's objection. The 'forged may be completely correct in his assessment but the wizard was more than capable of reasoning anything in her favour. "How many times do I have to tell you. We're more like family than soldier and officer. And my father would have no problems with me hugging family."
The 'forged gave Bronwyn a look that seemed to convey hesitance and introspection as it considered the matter in the only way it could- logically. After a fashion. "Conjecture. This one believes the Commander would have had an issue with having a Warforged for a son. Honest claim. If nothing else, his wife would have faced a most difficult pregnancy were that to be the case. Hesitant addition. Perhaps a very remote cousin would do, thus leaving him unaware of the gruesome details of delivery of said baby?"
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
Bronwyn gave an exasperated sigh, completely undeterred by Palisade's objection. The 'forged may be completely correct in his assessment but the wizard was more than capable of reasoning anything in her favour. "How many times do I have to tell you. We're more like family than soldier and officer. And my father would have no problems with me hugging family."
The 'forged gave Bronwyn a look that seemed to convey hesitance and introspection as it considered the matter in the only way it could- logically. After a fashion. "Conjecture. This one believes the Commander would have had an issue with having a Warforged for a son. Honest claim. If nothing else, his wife would have faced a most difficult pregnancy were that to be the case. Hesitant addition. Perhaps a very remote cousin would do, thus leaving him unaware of the gruesome details of delivery of said baby?"
Bronwyn both smiled and cringed at Palisade's colorful description. "How about adopted family. Then there's no reason to be hampered by unpleasant thoughts of a human giving birth to a warforged. I amend my statement to say that we are like adopted family. We choose each other as family rather than being forced to be together. Better?"
| Rokko |
I hate riddles and puzzles, I prefer killing things and taking their stuff. Well done to Palisade - it's not just a pretty face.
Rokko blinked in surprise that it was the warforged and not the wizard who deduced the puzzle. Then he shrugged - this journey was much more of an eye-opening than he had bargained for, and this was another revelation to add to the others.
"Well done, Palisade," he said, "I didn't have a clue."
Though when the warforged recommended killing the prisoner Rokko immediately replied, "No! He surrendered, we have to treat him properly or we would be as bad as the Emerald Claw. Maybe we will have to take him with us..?" he added doubtfully.
| Vi Olaro |
Following Palisade's understanding of the clues, Vi counted off the tiles, and carefully noted the locations of all 6 secret hearths on her map.
"Suggestion. The key was in the arcane writings. Destroy the writing and anyone following will have no help in putting meaning to the multitude of location icons on the map. Addendum. And dispose of the witness," Palisade added as an afterthought, hefting its greatsword as its single-eyed gaze fell on their prisoner, who had heard everything that had been said.
Vi shook her head, waggling her beard. "I don't know if destroying it is a good idea. If something happens to us, then Lady E will have no way of discovering the other locations. And we're not disposing of anybody."
The 'forged gave Bronwyn a look that seemed to convey hesitance and introspection as it considered the matter in the only way it could- logically. After a fashion. "Conjecture. This one believes the Commander would have had an issue with having a Warforged for a son. Honest claim. If nothing else, his wife would have faced a most difficult pregnancy were that to be the case. Hesitant addition. Perhaps a very remote cousin would do, thus leaving him unaware of the gruesome details of delivery of said baby?"
Making a sound that was half-laugh, half-exasperation, Vi said, "Host Above, Palisade! Is this really where your mind goes? She didn't say biological brother. Maybe an adopted one. Or you could have married into the family. Or you could realize she's just using a metaphor to show that she cares about you, and say, thanks, B, I love you too."
Turning to Bronwyn, she said, "Honestly, I love these guys, but how have you not murdered them in the last two years?"
| Palisade |
"Well done, Palisade," he said, "I didn't have a clue."
"Pious reply. The Creator-Goddess is wise and all-knowing, and generous with her servants," Palisade replied, nodding to the goblin evangelist to accept his kind words.
Making a sound that was half-laugh, half-exasperation, Vi said, "Host Above, Palisade! Is this really where your mind goes? She didn't say biological brother. Maybe an adopted one. Or you could have married into the family. Or you could realize she's just using a metaphor to show that she cares about you, and say, thanks, B, I love you too."
Turning its head this way from that as the two females reacted with unexpected intensity to its words, the tall 'forged appeared to be at a loss. "This one pities the husband/wife/life partner forced to make do with such an inferior product as itself," it hazarded, its sole eye jerking from one female face to the other to gauge how they might react to this humble input into the ongoing dialogue.
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
Turning to Bronwyn, she said, "Honestly, I love these guys, but how have you not murdered them in the last two years?"
Bronwyn gave her a look of surprise. "They do have their quirks but they always mean well. It's easy to overlook some of the things that come out their mouths or that they do because they treat me like precious cargo. I never have to worry when I'm with them because I know they'll protect me. I would never harm anyone who considers me their primary. That would be stupid on my part, don't you think?"
"This one pities the husband/wife/life partner forced to make do with such an inferior product as itself,"
Bronwyn reacted on human niceties and automatically responded, "Don't be silly, Palisade. You're not inferior." Then the implications of his sentence sank in a bit and she asked, "Wait, is that something you want? A husband/wife/life partner? I never thought that 'forged would want to be with anyone like that."
I love that we're getting waaaay off topic in the middle of an area that's still somewhat dangerous :)
| Vi Olaro |
"Argh!" Vi made a strangled sound of frustration, at both Bronwyn and Palisade's remarks. "Honestly, how did I end up with you lot? You're all so bloody literal!" Realizing she'd raised her voice, she shut her mouth and just shook her head in disbelief.
Turning to Rokko, she said, "At least you have some sense. Yes, we'll take him with us for now, decide what to do later. Now, we need to get out of here. So, do we try and wreck it, or just hope that the desire to dig died with that woman over there?"
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
"Suggestion. The key was in the arcane writings. Destroy the writing and anyone following will have no help in putting meaning to the multitude of location icons on the map.
Bronwyn looked doubtful. "Often destroying arcane markings can result in explosions and other unpleasantness. But I could try."
Knowledge, arcana to see if she can alter or destroy the arcane markings?
| Fabian Benavente |
| Fabian Benavente |
Will doing a knowledge roll let Bronwyn know whether the markings can be defaced enough to be indecipherable?
Bronwyn knows the runes could probably not be 'erased' with anything less powerful than a dispel magic.
However, breaking the place where the runes are written (i.e., defacing the statues) would probably render them indecipherable.
| Squeak Warforged |
Action 1
Squeak remains fixed in place, staring out into the dim. "I do not see that we need have loyalty to our employer beyond our contract. We can always send her a copy of the information. Further if we are the only source of information our enemies are forced to use non-lethal capture methods."
"I believe I can destroy the stone. I suggest we also dispose of the corpse. The witness will accompany us." Squeak summarised "I will need to someone to take my post. They should have the sigil. I will then increase my speed and we can move out. There may be soldiers beyond these walls. I suggest the soldier should be freed to talk. We should use what sigils we can."
| Vi Olaro |
Vi agreed with Squeak's assessment. The 'Forged really did have a good head for strategy. "Palisade, how about if you stand there with the shield, just in case the zombies come back. B, Rokko, let's stay out of the way."
She pulled the soldier to his feet, and loosened the scarf over his ears. "I've managed to convince them not to kill you on the spot. Keep cooperating, and you'll live." She then replaced the covering, just in case.
She pulled him close to the door, and waited for Demolition Squeak to do his thing.
Soldier is blindfolded and ears muffled, not gagged. Yet.
| Palisade |
“Wait, is that something you want? A husband/wife/life partner? I never thought that 'forged would want to be with anyone like that.”
While Palisade's featureless face was unable to show emotion, this time there was no doubt there was something in its voice - likely the horror of a lifetime bachelor faces when presented with the possibility of marriage. "Lady d'Deneith, this one was merely reacting to companion Vi Olaro's suggestion. The very thought is surely against common wisdom and tradition; after all, how often have you heard of lady of any standing marrying a set of kitchen implements? The analogue is crude but not without relevance."
Vi agreed with Squeak's assessment. The 'Forged really did have a good head for strategy. "Palisade, how about if you stand there with the shield, just in case the zombies come back. B, Rokko, let's stay out of the way."
"Acknowledged," Palisade said as it switched places with unit Squeak, brandishing its new shield.
She pulled the soldier to his feet, and loosened the scarf over his ears. "I've managed to convince them not to kill you on the spot. Keep cooperating, and you'll live." She then replaced the covering, just in case.
"Opinion. This one believes this to be highly unorthodox. This fine soldier is a true patriot, thus he understands perfectly that it is proper for a prisoner in his position to be terminated by his captors, because it would be his duty to try to alert his surviving comrades to our presence or try to sabotage our mission to the best of his ability. Conclusion. This one believes it to be a disservice, almost an insult, to subject prisoner's valor not to offer him a chance to die for his cause," Palisade chimed in helpfully.
| Rokko |
"Actually, Palisade, your understanding of patriotism is faulty. It is against the rules of war to kill a captive once they have offered surrender. And it is also stupid. If soldiers knew they would be killed if they surrendered, they would fight to the death. That would deprive us of potential intelligence and could also lead to higher casualties when they are not necessary. Finally, it is just wrong. By surrendering he was choosing to live, not to die. If you kill him now you have taken a decision, not him. An evil decision that would stain your soul," said Rokko, adding, "Assuming you have a soul, that is."
| Squeak Warforged |
“Wait, is that something you want? A husband/wife/life partner? I never thought that 'forged would want to be with anyone like that.”
Squeak, still faced into the maw of danger, slumped a little as Palisade slammed 'Forged marriages.
later
"Is he prepared to change sides?" asks Squeak "Lots of mercenaries do."
apparently Warforged were known for it - I remember reading. They mostly only just fought because they were told too
Squeak moved over to the first statue, then hesitated "Did you want to trace this or anything?" he asked. Once assured the information was recorded he dug adamantine fingers through the stone, shattering it as they went. "Put the pieces into a bag." he suggested "Or this becomes one of those puzzles."
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
"Lady d'Deneith, this one was merely reacting to companion Vi Olaro's suggestion. The very thought is surely against common wisdom and tradition; after all, how often have you heard of lady of any standing marrying a set of kitchen implements? The analogue is crude but not without relevance."
Bronwyn cocked her head to the side, "Just because it goes against what you consider common wisdom and tradition, doesn't mean that it isn't possible if that's something you want. There's a lot of people and creatures in this world and they say that there's someone for everyone..."
With all the discussion of the prisoner, Bronwyn piped up, "It may be easiest to dispatch of the prisoner; however, Rokko is correct in that it wouldn't be right. But we also can't take him with us to our final destination. I say that we take him with us for now, gagged of course so he can't yell for help, and then leave him tied to something on the outskirts of town. That way he has the chance to escape or for someone to find him."
Bronwyn directed Squeak as he destroyed the statues. "I guess we should destroy them all, just in case. And your idea about taking the pieces along is a good one. Although that may get pretty heavy." Even though she knew that Vi had sketched and written down everything, Bronwyn still studied the numbers and committed them to memory before Squeak crushed them out of existence.
| Fabian Benavente |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Good RPing.
Remember that I need some sort of direction of where you are going.
I heard going back to Failin who is on the south side of town (out of sight over the ridge).
If that's the plan, please tell me how (which approximate route) that will be accomplished and roll if necessary (stealth?).
Questions?
Game on!
BTW: really enjoying the story we're writing together.
| Palisade |
"Actually, Palisade, your understanding of patriotism is faulty. It is against the rules of war to kill a captive once they have offered surrender. And it is also stupid. If soldiers knew they would be killed if they surrendered, they would fight to the death. That would deprive us of potential intelligence and could also lead to higher casualties when they are not necessary. Finally, it is just wrong. By surrendering he was choosing to live, not to die. If you kill him now you have taken a decision, not him. An evil decision that would stain your soul," said Rokko, adding, "Assuming you have a soul, that is."
"Idealistic," Palisade replied without looking back. "Explanation. It is reasonable to take prisoners and treat them well for the reasons you pointed out if your side controls the field of battle at the end of a successful battle. It is another thing when a unit on an infiltration mission captures someone behind enemy lines. Usually, the risks of carrying a protesting captive all the way to terrain you control without his allies noticing or being notified by said prisoner are unreasonable. Thus, the kindest thing to do to said prisoner is to terminate him with as little application of pain as possible. For if someone has to die for their cause and country, it should always be the opponent, not one of your own."
| Palisade |
Squeak, still faced into the maw of danger, slumped a little as Palisade slammed 'Forged marriages.
Palisade's not trying to rain on your parade, but it does see itself as a thing, not a person, thus the whole concept of marrying (among many others) seems simply... wrong.
| Fabian Benavente |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Palisade wrote:I totally agree! :)Fabian Benavente wrote:Good RPing.How 'bout that good RPing earn us a level-up soon? ;^)
Whiners! All these young ones do these days is just whine and complain. :)
Well, back in my day sonny, we would play through an entire campaign and not even level up once! :)
And don't even get me started how they buff up these days. Why, we would take on a dragon just with MW weapons. :)
It's coming. Level up is closer than you think. Just one more... encounter.
Game on!
| Vi Olaro |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bronwyn d'Deneith wrote:Palisade wrote:I totally agree! :)Fabian Benavente wrote:Good RPing.How 'bout that good RPing earn us a level-up soon? ;^)Whiners! All these young ones do these days is just whine and complain. :)
Well, back in my day sonny, we would play through an entire campaign and not even level up once! :)
And don't even get me started how they buff up these days. Why, we would take on a dragon just with MW weapons. :)
It's coming. Level up is closer than you think. Just one more... encounter.
Game on!
You had MW weapons? We had to do it with teeth and nails. AND we had to slog up the mountain barefoot through three feet of lava, uphill both ways.
Vi hated to admit it, but Palisade had a point. However, she had promised. "Tell you what, Palisade. We'll take him with us, gagged. You can walk behind him. If he does one thing that puts us in danger, or if we run into trouble that he could exploit, you can kill him. But we're not doing it here, in cold blood." The fact that they'd killed the woman without giving her a chance to talk or surrender bothered Vi, but she was trying not to dwell on that.
Once everybody was done in the room, she said, "Rokko, lead us out of here. Keep an eye out for those zombies, we don't know where they went. Let's circle as far from the camp as we can, but get off this glass as quickly as reasonably possible. Then we'll head to Failin. I'll bring up the rear - with this Face, I should be ignored. Oh, and B, you should use your Sleeves to put one of those symbols on your clothes. Just in case."
stealth: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (13) + 9 = 22
| Fabian Benavente |
| Vi Olaro |
A half-dozen replied popped into in Vi's head, which, of course, did nobody any good at all. To speak was to ruin her disguise. She had to hope that the others would be able to come with something that would allow them to escape without a battle. This guy just radiated trouble, and she doubted he was as frail as his age suggested.
knowledge religion: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 1 = 9
| Palisade |
Knowledge Religion: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (12) + 6 = 18 There's only one religion that matters, but Palisade seems to be able to connect a couple of dots regardless
I assume Palisade's using the shield and hammer combo here, since the BoV symbols were preferred.
Palisade considered the kneeling prisoner with detached interest. The 'forged had insisted on slipping a noose around the man's neck, with the other end of the rope wrapped around the wrist of its shield hand so the prisoner wouldn't be able to flee and that Palisade would have a quick way of enforcing the man's silence if they came too close to enemies the prisoner might feel inclined to try alerting. Now, the man had almost sufficated himself when he threw himself down with no regard to the length of the rope. Clearly, this newcomer was someone who in his mind deserved instant recognition.
The 'forged noted the casually flashed teeth, wondering if the robed individual was in the habit of sharpening his teeth or if it was a mark that he was of some flesh-consuming breed of intelligent undead. Clearly enough, the vestments he wore seemed to indicate he was highly ranked in the Blood of Vol cult.
| Fabian Benavente |
Knowledge (Religion) to tell if this is an undead or just a wannabe 1d20+5 My response will depend on the result.
Given the short time you have to study it, his appearance and mannerisms, and your knowledge of high ranking members of the Blood of Vol lead you believe he's a vampire but you also realize that it is too short a time to properly evaluate such a thing.
After all, a cursory look at Vi behind you would tell you that she's a zombie.
Your move...
| Rokko |
Action 2
Rokko gave the newcomer the quick once-over. He might be a vampire, but it was not unknown for Blood of Vol cultists to want to emulate undead either. If it was a vampire, their journey had probably ended. On the other hand, Rokko wasn't going to give it the satisfaction of going down meekly.
"Die, villain!" he hissed, drew his bow and fired in a smooth motion.
Move action, draw bow. Standard action, shoot at Gnashers.
1d20 + 5 ⇒ (20) + 5 = 25 to hit, damage 1d6 ⇒ 6
Woohoo! What a time for a possible crit.
1d20 + 5 ⇒ (17) + 5 = 22 to confirm, extra damage 2d6 ⇒ (4, 5) = 9
| Squeak Warforged |
Squeak stepped forward. New experiences had convinced him not to block the line to Bronwyn - she had come into her own as a fire wizard - but only to make charging her strategically foolish.
When Rokko's hissed curse rang out, Squeak engaged. With smooth, practiced motions he sent a vial of fire winging towards the man. fire-disguise: 1d20 + 3 - 1 ⇒ (16) + 3 - 1 = 18
have the spells faded? I think from the recap they have.
| Fabian Benavente |
| Bronwyn d'Deneith |
knowledge,arcana: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (6) + 9 = 15
spellcraft: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (9) + 9 = 18
Does she know what he did/cast?
What Bronwyn was hoping to avoid was coming to fruition. When the gross-looking pale cultist disappeared in a fog cloud, the wizard reacted. Spell casting 101 taught you that when your target didn't have a solid form, blast it with a magic missile. She spoke the words needed to cause a ball of force fly towards where the voice emitted from the fog.
Casting Magic Missile
damage: 1d4 + 1 ⇒ (2) + 1 = 3
She then pulls out her wand in preparation for her next attack.
| Vi Olaro |
Thank goodness we didn't have to bother leveling up before facing three glass zombies and a BLOODY VAMPIRE! Is this what you meant by "encounter"? Are the quotes just to show that it actually means "imminent demise"?
"Fool!" Vi couldn't believe Rokko's recklessness. They were so close to getting out of here; now they had at least 3 zombies, and a...something horrible.
"Grrr. Arrrr." Vi shambled towards her friends, hoping the incoming zombies would think she was one of them.
bluff: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (2) + 8 = 10
Unfortunately, dwarven zombies sound very different than she thought, and her attempt just drew attention to herself. "Balls." Pulling a tanglefoot bag from her pocket, she hurled it at the closest zombie. If she could keep at least a few out of the fight for now, it could mean the difference between life and death.
attack: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (9) + 1 = 10 Why can't I find what to add to a thrown splash weapon? Is it my Str, or Dex, or neither? I just put on my BAB for now.