Crowdsource: New Diabolical Boons from the Book of the Damned


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
thelivingmonkey wrote:
In the campaign I'm currently GMing there is a theme of hunting devils (2 person campaign, uncle/nephew PC's, bearded devil killed their brother/father) and I'm thinking of using the diabolist PrC as a villain. I think that'd be fun (the uncle is a samurai with a lord in a big city, this lord is going to have things going on behind the scenes and BOOM plot twist, he has a host of devils hiding in the castle walls and a certain samurai is going to get his reward for loyal service *cue evil laugh*).

1) If you want to toughen things up, Bearded Devils benefit tremendously from adding fighter levels. A named devil with fighter levels can be any CR you like, and will be a tough and fun opponent throughout.

2) It's canon that all devils can do contracts for souls, but only some (contract devils, pit fiends) do all kinds of contracts. Bearded devils specialize in contracts that make the recipient more fearsome in combat. So, you could meet a villain who has some weird ability -- Fast Healing 5, DR 10/silver, the ability to do bleed damage with every hit -- and it turns out he has a connection to that particular devil...

3) Building a Diabolist is fun! And there's no limit to the mix of devils you can surround them with. And if you want a plot twist, don't forget that devils are treacherous...

Doug M.

My plan was for the bearded devil to be serving someone else (probably a pit fiend, though the lord orchestrating their death could be interesting too) but giving it class levels could be interesting. Though to be fair they're only level two right now so that's a far way off. The samurai uncle went to go pick up the oracle nephew after his parents were killed and now they're traveling back to the city to report to the lord. Some sort of confrontation will arise (AH the boy is a freak!! He has not earned those powers, that much I can feel. Erwin (the samurai) you must destroy him!!) Either way I've got another session or two before they even get to the city. These are good suggestions, probably gonna use 1 or all of them.


thelivingmonkey wrote:


My plan was for the bearded devil to be serving someone else (probably a pit fiend, though the lord orchestrating their death could be interesting too) but giving it class levels could be interesting. Though to be fair they're only level two right now so that's a far way off.

Fair enough. Well, the later Bestiaries are full of cool supernatural Japanese-themed monsters to keep them busy until then. (I'm particularly fond of the Heikegani, which would also be an appropriate foe for a couple of 2nd-3rd level characters. "If the boy would prove his worth, let him walk down the Accursed Beach at nightfall, and bring back a ballast stone from the wreck of the Date Maru." Of course, the ship was sunk by evil magic, and the samurai tasked to protect it has reincarnated as an angry Heikegani who patrols the beach...)

Doug M.


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Conclusion: How Good Are These?

Obediences: Paizo has clearly decided that Diabolical Obediences should be relatively easy and straightforward, leaving the yuckier and more burdensome ones to the demons. That's fine, and makes some thematic sense. Benefits: These are all over the place, from junk to excellent. A couple of them are so good that they're mechanically worth taking even without considering the Boons. Boons: These are also all over the place, ranging from excellent down to WTF. As a general rule, it must be said, they're not great. Remember that you're either giving up a full level of casting; or you're giving up two feats to regain that lost level; or you're waiting until 20th level to get the full Boon-set. (Besides committing in-game to be evil and damned, of course.)

As much as I love Paizo, and respect its designers, it must be said: some of these paths are not well designed. I appreciate that coming up with nine different Boons for 30+ different evil deities was no small challenge. But... there are issues. Sentinel paths in particular can't seem to decide whether they're for martials or casters. Giving martials save-or-suck powers that require a standard and are built off Cha is not good design. It doesn't matter how cool a power is: if the save DC is so low that opponents will usually save, then it won't get used. A lot of the Boons have awesome flavor text (not a slur; I love some good flavor text) but when you run the numbers, they're just not going to work very well for most of the PCs who would use them.

On the flip side, giving arcane casters touch attacks, or any sort of power that requires them to get dangerously close to angry enemies, is also a questionable design choice. Yes, it can be balanced if you make the potential payoff big enough for the caster to justify putting his precious squishy self in harm's way. That's usually not the case here. So, again, you end up with cool powers that will rarely or never get used.

More generally, a lot of the Boons suffer from the same problem that most of Paizo's PrCs suffer from: they don't scale with level. There was a video a while back of a Paizo designer speaking at a con, and describing why (in his opinion) PrCs were generally problematic. And one of the reasons he gave was "and they give you X benefit at PrC level Y, so if you enter the PrC late, you get that benefit later, when it's not so great any more". And I was literally yelling at the screen "That's a DESIGN problem! That's not the PrC's fault, it's YOUR fault!"

Anyway. Despite various flaws and issues, there is some interesting stuff in here. So, next up: DMDM's Hot Picks.


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Hot Picks: So You Want to Worship Hell...

Okay, let's summarize. Which of these Patrons and Paths are worth your consideration? This is the TLDR post for those of you who don't want to read through the 16 individual posts in the thread above. I'm breaking these into two groups: General Interest, and High Level Only, for those that don't give you anything great until the third and final Boon.

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General Interest

Baalzebul's Evangelist Path gives you a +20 untyped bonus to Intimidate checks at 13th level. That's very solid, and worth building towards. Casters aren't usually Intimidate monkeys, but you don't even have to be a Cha-based caster to take advantage of this -- just taking a trait or throwing a few ranks at Intimidate will let you use it regularly. It doesn't hurt that Baalzebul has a good benefit (+4 against mind-affecting effects) to tide you over while you wait to reach 13th.

Barbatos has a decent benefit, and his Sentinel Path gives you free Glyphs of Warding followed by a free Gate spell at 16th level. You can use the Gate either for planar travel or to call a pit fiend, and you don't have to pay the up-front 10,000 gp cost. You can't control the fiend, but it's RAW that it will "tend to gladly obey". This is a bit blurry, but unless your DM is a real bastard this is pretty solid.

Belial, at 13th level, lets you change yourself into any sort of outsider. You then gain that outsider's immunities, resistances, and Fly speed. This is just excellent, and kind of abusable in a good way. There are outsiders that are immune to pretty much everything. Like, have you looked at the Inevitable subtype? Those guys are "immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects, necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless)." The kami subtype is almost as bad: "bleed, mind-affecting effects, petrification, and polymorph effects" plus Resist acid 10, electricity 10, fire 10. (And, yup, it says "any outsider" , so native outsiders like the kami are totally on the table.) And you can *swap around* your chosen outsider three times per day. If you have one standard action of warning, you can make yourself immune to everything from critical hits to energy drain. This is a fine all-round defensive ability, and that's before we consider the fun RP aspects of pretending to be an angel or whatever. Getting a Fly speed on top is just gravy.

The Archduke Jiraviddain has a slightly unpleasant Obedience and a junk benefit, but then two good spells -- Death Knell and Heal, with the latter being particularly nice to have if you don't have a healbot in the party -- and then Symbol of Vulnerability. That's normally a very meh 9th level spell, but (1) it's another "SLA, so no component, so you save a bunch of money" -- in this case, 15,000 gp per casting; and (2) it's particularly useful for a Diabolist, since it melts away creatures' defenses without allowing a save or Spell Resistance. A high-level character with access to this SLA would literally paint his living quarters with these things.

The Archduke Lorthact has an easy Obedience and his benefit is a +4 profane bonus on Knowledge and Spellcraft checks. That is ALL Knowledge and Spellcraft checks. There are 10 Knowledges, so that is like getting 44 skill ranks, boom, free. If you're a Knowledge monkey, this is very hard to resist.

Mahathallah's benefit (which you get as soon as you take the Obedience feat, as early as 3rd level) gives you +2 on the DC of all your illusion spells and a +2 bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects. That's 2.5 feats for the price of one! If you're playing an illusion caster, and you don't mind being LE, go worship Mahathallah and take this feat right now. Mahathallah's Boons are nothing special -- the Sentinel path in particular is amazingly bad -- but you could do something with the Evangelist and Exalted if you want to build a character around illusions and drugs. Honestly, though, she's the go-to deity for characters who don't much care about the boons: to wit, illusion specialists who just want that sweet, sweet free feat and a half early on.

The Archduke Malthus' benefit is "a +4 profane bonus on Reflex saving throws to avoid physical dangers." Pretty much all Reflex saves are to avoid physical dangers. So, this is basically +4 on Reflex saves, or the equivalent of two feats.

Mammon's Sentinel path gives you the power at 13th level to shut down Smites and other good-based damage. This is situational but very thematic, and you could definitely build a fun NPC with it. "Sir Bluto Saunce Pite has killed a dozen paladins. We're not sure how, but..."

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High Level Only

Ardad Lili's Evangelist Path gives you Soul Bind as an SLA, meaning no material component cost. Savings: potentially huge! The Archduke Deumas also gives you this, although with a nastier Obedience.

Doloras' third Sentinel Boon gives you a burst attack with a 30' radius, centered anywhere within 100'... and creatures in that radius are seized by hellish chains and immobilized for rounds/level, and can't fly or teleport way. If a target makes a Reflex save, it is STILL immobilized for half the duration. And if it fails, it takes "2d6 points of piercing damage and 4d6 points of fire damage per round as blazing, hellish needles stab into the exposed portions of their bodies". No damage cap. So, if a creature doesn't have fire immunity or resistance, it will take 6d6 of damage times your level, which at 16th level is 336 points of damage. That's on top of all the damage you can pour into it while it's immobilized. Hell, even if it makes its save, "immobilized for 8 rounds" probably means it's dead anyway. This is a very powerful tactical suck-or-suck. If you throw it at your PCs, try to give them some advance warning first...

Geryon's final Exalted boon lets you completely shut down enemy faith-based casters, simply cancelling the ability of clerics and oracles to cast spells. It's Cha-based, so -- given that it allows a Will save, and clerics tend to have great Will saves -- you really need to be a Cha-based caster to pull it off. But you could make some cool NPCs with it! I'm imagining a devil-themed sorceror who calls himself "the Faithbreaker"...

And finally, the Archduke Lorcan has a yucky Obedience and a mediocre benefit, but is the only Diabolical Patron who gives you access to True Resurrection. As a SLA. Which means no material component cost. That means a massive 25,000 gp savings every time you cast this spell. You can cast True Resurrection for free every darn day. Even at levels 16+, this is so good as to verge on unbalanced. Why Hell allowed a relatively lowly Archduke to have near absolute power over life and death is unclear, but there it is.


I think Eligos deserves a dishonorable mention as the worst obedience benefit of any type. A bonus to saves against the ruse descriptor? LOLOLOLOL.


I just had reason to be reminded of how awful Mahathallah's Sentinel boons are. You could argue that it's a balance against her excellent Obedience, except it doesn't work that way: most players will just take the Obedience and ignore the crappy boons. Especially these crappy boons.

Anyway: does anyone have an interest in doing one of these for the daemons or demons? I wouldn't do it myself -- this was a lot of work -- but I'd be happy to contribute to someone else's thread. Anyone?

Doug M.


Daemons seems doable given their lesser numbers. But they also (Horseman aside) get particularly weak SLA boons, and the twice per day doesn't really make up for it. I really wish they hadn't made harbingers so much weaker than their peers.

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