Op trick, nat20 question

[Mark Carlson 255]

I was wondering what the rule would be on the following.
1) Roll nat 20 on Operative trick attack? ie deal double damage for trick damage.
2) Roll nat 20 on attack roll with successful trick attack? ie do I just roll double base damage and single trick damage or do I roll double both.

I think that if you roll a nat 20 for the trick to succeed then you roll double trick damage and if you roll nat 20 for your attack you only roll double damage for your weapon damage.
To get double trick damage and weapon damage you would need to roll a nat 20 for the trick and a nat 20 for the weapon attack.

Thanks
MDC

[MagicA]

Id say you just get the bonus damage if the attack itself crits

[Mark Carlson 255]

MagicA wrote:

Id say you just get the bonus damage if the attack itself crits

So if you roll a Nat 20 for the trick you get nothing more than a guaranteed success?

It is the actual to hit roll that modifies both the weapon damage and the trick attack damage.

MDC

[Dazz]

Exactly. The Trick attack roll is a skill check, and skill checks don't crit.

If the attack roll crits, as far as I can tell everything is doubled, including the bonus damage from trick attack.

[Andy Brown]

Mark Carlson 255 wrote:

So if you roll a Nat 20 for the trick you get nothing more than a guaranteed success?

Nope.

The Trick Attack roll is a skill check, natural 20 isn't an auto-success

[Mark Carlson 255]

Thanks all,
I read a lot of rules and at times the various rules from all of the different D&D clones run together.
Often I create a cheat sheet if I am going to play a system for any length of time to help keep the rules set in my mind vs any that I am looking at for other stuff.
MDC