Influence


Kingmaker


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I've been running a modified version of the Rushlight Tournament for the past couple sessions. In my campaign, Castruccio Irovetti is evil, but also dedicated to defending Pitax and his people -- a sort of pragmatic evil. He was seeking an alliance because he knows the fey are coming.

At our most recent session, the climax was not a combat, but a diplomatic dinner with Irovetti and several other factions. I've used the diplomatic dinner trope before, to varying success, but this time I structured it around the influence system from Ultimate Intrigue.

How the dinner went:

The dinner featured several factions:


  • The Kingdom of Pitax, represented by King Castruccio Irovetti, his court mage, and a bodyguard. Objective: Secure an alliance to protect Pitax from the fey.

  • The Delegation of the Lady of Dreams, represented by the Knurly Witch, Kargaad (disguised in a human form), and a couple servants. Objective: Dissuade Pitax, or anybody else, from opposing the Lady of Dreams (Nyrissa) and gather information.

  • Daggermark, represented by Lady Quintessa Maray. Objective: Gather information about politics in the Stolen Lands.

  • The Scarlet Consortium, a group of contract devils, represented by a contract devil and his human sorcerer assistant (who walked around with a book writing things down). Objective: Strike a bargain with King Irovetti. The Consortium would offer Irovetti power and infernal aid in exchange for the souls of everyone in the PCs kingdom.

  • The Technic League, represented by a Gearman leader and an android brawler. Objective: Obtain information about the PCs (who are mythic), and to obtain one of the PCs who was formerly a slave of the Technic League.

  • The players' kingdom represented by the PCs.

Dinner had five courses. During each course, each player could try one discovery check and one influence check. Meanwhile, the other groups were making their own attempts at influence. Each faction could only be influenced or discovered once per course.

For some reason, most of my players skimped on interaction skills, so they ended up aiding the party face (the Queen) on interaction skills, then spreading out with Sense Motive, Perception, and Knowledge skills to make discovery checks against other factions.

I did suggest to my players that they pay attention to lore and clues they had been gathering during the Rushlight Tournament about each faction -- and they had been influencing those factions themselves.

The players discussed a lot of the drama they'd seen -- events in Brevoy, events at the festival, behavior of all the factions -- and did their best to figure out who was doing what. Over the course of the dinner, the players used discovery to figure out the red herrings (Daggermark and the Technic League), and influenced them to back off. They offered to meet Daggermark later to furnish information, and offered the Technic League information to persuade it to lay off the one PC.

That left the fey, Irovetti, and the Scarlet Consortium. My players learned both from their earlier information gathering and at the dinner that Irovetti was after an alliance. They also learned that the fey were planning a major move and they got a couple useful names (D'Kara, Marquis of the Fallen Leaves, and Briar ("the Lady of Dreams' salvation or her doom."))

As dinner ended, my players were virtually tied with the Scarlet Consortium for influence over Irovetti ... and they realized that if Irovetti made his alliance, then they would face devils AND fey!!

I moved things into a sort of lightning round where my players each tried an argument to Irovetti. I let them play Plot Twist cards for bonuses to their interaction skills. Meanwhile, the contract devil would counter each argument in response.

Finally, the queen played her trump card. She offered her hand in marriage to Castruccio Irovetti's eldest son to seal a diplomatic alliance between them.

The devil was unable to counter the offer, and Irovetti and the PC queen publicly pledged their alliance and the betrothal.

I thought it worked rather well. The Ultimate Intrigue influence system offers a solid way to resolve these sorts of social encounters that splits the difference between purely unstructured RP and single interaction rolls, on the one hand, and the too-constrained system of the Social Combat cards. I think it's also a good system for Kingmaker in general. If you're playing a game of kingdoms, then certain things need to be decided at the negotiating table, rather than on the battlefield. This was a solid way to accomplish it.


That was awesome - thanks for sharing!

The Influence system looked interesting but I worried it would prove a bit fiddly in play. Good to hear an actual play report where it worked nicely!

Ultimate Intrigue seems to be a pretty solid book... I really like all the advice on specific spells interacting with crime and intrigue, too.


I used a somewhat slimmed-down version, but it worked for my purposes. In my dinner scenario, the "discovery check" didn't unearth the opponents skill, strengths, or weaknesses, but instead revealed elements of the other factions' agenda.

I actually liked the struture. In my experience, RP encounters often involve a lot of people going for their interaction and sense motive skills willy-nilly. This system made them act more strategically.


Sounds awesome, I may have to incorporate some of this myself. My group just started RRR (just got their new charter and are now going through the Venture Capital portion trying to get allies/resources) but they really seem to be digging the political machinations and such. The Baron is already considering proposing a marriage to the granddaughter of Poul Orlovsky, the group as a whole is weighing who to trust/not trust and thinking about where some proposals might come into conflict with each other. Not to mention that one of the party members has a thing for a certain beautiful, green haired "lady". So with all that said, I think this sort of thing is likely to really appeal to them (and I intend to use something similar in VV with the centaurs -- though that will be more a trust points system as outlined in Dudemeister's thread).


It does sound like it worked well for you.

My first group of players are just about to deal with the Staglord and will get their introduction to politics shortly afterwards. And I have been looking for a mechanic I can use :)

There will A big shindig in Restov where their NPC leader gets a Noble Title and a new Charter (the players are building personal holdings within a March, rather than building a new kingdom). Followed by a marriage between two Noble PCs.

Restov is going to be teeming with nobles and faction who all want investment opportunities - so I will use a very slimmed down version with some of the ideas from the Venture Capital thread.


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JohnB wrote:

Restov is going to be teeming with nobles and faction who all want investment opportunities - so I will use a very slimmed down version with some of the ideas from the Venture Capital thread.

Side note: I would absolutely love it if Paizo republished Kingmaker as a hardcover, incorporating all the rules advancements of the past several years (esp. kingdom-building, mass combat, Ultimate Intrigue, and new classes), and then had a special "Kingmaker Extras" section that goes over all the things we've written on this message board over the past several years.


pennywit wrote:
JohnB wrote:

Restov is going to be teeming with nobles and faction who all want investment opportunities - so I will use a very slimmed down version with some of the ideas from the Venture Capital thread.

Side note: I would absolutely love it if Paizo republished Kingmaker as a hardcover, incorporating all the rules advancements of the past several years (esp. kingdom-building, mass combat, Ultimate Intrigue, and new classes), and then had a special "Kingmaker Extras" section that goes over all the things we've written on this message board over the past several years.

Truth. The biggest problem with KM is that everyone here has come up with so many great ideas for additions, modifications, etc., that I don't have room to fit them all in. On the plus side, it does make it easy for even players to run/play the campaign multiple times as no two KM campaigns are likely to be all that similar.


Indeed :) There is loads of good stuff on these boards. But I would settle for a 'collected' version as a PDF.

To go with that, I would like to see is a 'quick play' version of all the various rule sets.

In my previous game we found the Kingdom rules became a pain after a while, the same happens with the Down Time rules (try running a business for a while) and I suspect that these influence rules will be the same. While the 'Fame' rules are uber simplistic ... :)

Mind you, I am biased, my current project is rewriting all the campaign systems so they actually work together without constant admin work. As it is, the anomalies between Down Time and Kingdom Building were quite an eye opener.


Kingdom-building has become a bit of a drag. I started running kingdom-building in seasons rather than in months to move things along. (Which reminds me, I need to refocus my players a little bit by going back to my old Kingdom Reports).


One thought: I was going to have a group of fey (representing Lord D'Kara) attack the end of the Rushlight Tournament. I'm thinking of having them gatecrash (literally) the PC queen's wedding now ... any thoughts?


Did you already do Felnight Queen? If not, you could modify and buff.


Already did Fellnight Queen.


Have the Gnurly Witch be one of the crashers, as she was sent to bestow a "blessing" onto the first-born of the soon-to-be married couple. (Kind of like Sleeping Beauty's origins).


In my last run through of Kingmaker, each PC built up a personal entourage of followers and assistants - which helped give the campaign a real sense of depth and continuity. That was tabletop with three players - However, I have been struggling to make that work in my RPoL game that has 15 players. But the 'Recruits' feat from the Intrigue rules caught my eye - so herewith my take on it :)

Entourage:

**Entourage**

Be they students, retainers, new recruits to your order, or neophyte members of your faith, you have access to a small set of dedicated servants.

**Prerequisite(s)**: Free For Campaign Games

**Benefit(s)**: You gain a number of Cohort-Assistants (as per the Leadership feat) that represent NPCs you are responsible for instructing or overseeing. You may have a number of such Cohort-Assistants equal to half your character level + Charisma Modifier.

**Role**: Cohort-Assistants are not adventurers and have opted for a safer life supporting you, and have chosen not to fight monsters or wars for a living. If you take a Cohort-Assistant into dangerous situations, which would not be seen as normal for their level and class, they will leave your service.

Most Cohort-Assistants expect be employed managing your household, organisation or business enterprises. A Divine Adept might oversee a chapel, an Arcane Adept might be your magical assistant or an apprentice, an Expert might serve as a Butler or Ship’s captain, while a warrior might oversee a contingent of guards.

It is, however, perfectly acceptable to take a suitable Cohort-Assistant along with you as a Squire, Personal Assistant or Bodyguard – so long as you leave them outside of the area of danger. Ie – They can come with you in the field but you must leave them somewhere safe (perhaps to look after the horses) and expect them to withdraw from the scene of any major conflict.

As Cohort-Assistants are busy doing their jobs, those not travelling with you can’t engage in mundane or magical Crafting or Profession checks.

Cohort Assistants must meet the following rules:

* **Level**: Cohort-Assistants start at Level 1 and advance ONE level every time your PC gains an even numbered character level. They will never have more than half the levels that your PC does.
* **Class**: Cohort-Assistants may only have levels in the Adept, Expert or Warrior Classes.
* **Build**: Cohort-Assistants follow the rules all NPCs that are outlined on the Character Creation Page. ++ Details | **Playing an NPC** - I like players to run some of the NPCs for me. It gives you another opportunity to RP, and helps me add diversity to the NPCs. Generally these will be Adepts, Experts or Warriors. Use a 10 point build, full HP at first level, 35gp starting money and 1x trait. At least one ability must be greater than 12 no abilities lower than 8. You should note that I allow Adept Archetypes, details can be found on the House Rules page. ++
* **Replacement**: any replacement Cohort-Assistant must be recruited as a L1 NPC.

Excuse the funky formatting, but it works nicely on my wiki.


As an aside, or perhaps related to the wedding scene, any chance that Irovetti's "son" is actually N's? Either from their prior dealings (before things went south between them) or just having been switched. Could make for some interesting interactions later on, and could even make an excuse for some fey to crash the wedding.


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My Irovetti is very, VERY different from the vanilla KM Irovetti, as he's a lord who is hostile to the fey and is trying to protect his kingdom from Nyrissa, and (most importantly) he doesn't have Briar in his possession. If he's Nyrissa's ex-lover, and the son is actually his son with her? This would explain why Irovetti's knowledge of Nyrissa, the fey, and their plans ... AND if Irovetti just cough, cough happens to die, it makes things personal.

I've added a couple faerie players to the mix -- the Black Prince, who's off in his own subplot in Brevoy that my players will hear about -- and D'Kara, a mythic Erlking who is the lord of the Castle of Knives and the true fey ruler of the Stolen Lands. He's aligned with Nyrissa only because she's holding his lover hostage in the Fable.

I'm also playing with the idea of Nyrissa as a Cursed Lord, making her unable to leave her realm. When a bloom is dropped on a hex, it becomes part of her "kingdom," allowing her to manifest there and preventing mortals from teleporting in and out.

I was going to have the D'Kara's forces gate-crash the end of the Rushlight Tournament while Nyrissa's forces simultaneously drop a bloom on Candlemere AND the black dragons who rule Drelev (long story) assault the Forgotten Keep.

What if I delay that? Hold the wedding in Pitax, and drop one of the blooms on Pitax's capital while my players are there. Nyrissa shows up in all her glory to "bless" the wedding of "my son."

Holy s$$#. This is gold.


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pennywit wrote:

My Irovetti is very, VERY different from the vanilla KM Irovetti, as he's a lord who is hostile to the fey and is trying to protect his kingdom from Nyrissa, and (most importantly) he doesn't have Briar in his possession. If he's Nyrissa's ex-lover, and the son is actually his son with her? This would explain why Irovetti's knowledge of Nyrissa, the fey, and their plans ... AND if Irovetti just cough, cough happens to die, it makes things personal.

I've added a couple faerie players to the mix -- the Black Prince, who's off in his own subplot in Brevoy that my players will hear about -- and D'Kara, a mythic Erlking who is the lord of the Castle of Knives and the true fey ruler of the Stolen Lands. He's aligned with Nyrissa only because she's holding his lover hostage in the Fable.

I'm also playing with the idea of Nyrissa as a Cursed Lord, making her unable to leave her realm. When a bloom is dropped on a hex, it becomes part of her "kingdom," allowing her to manifest there and preventing mortals from teleporting in and out.

I was going to have the D'Kara's forces gate-crash the end of the Rushlight Tournament while Nyrissa's forces simultaneously drop a bloom on Candlemere AND the black dragons who rule Drelev (long story) assault the Forgotten Keep.

What if I delay that? Hold the wedding in Pitax, and drop one of the blooms on Pitax's capital while my players are there. Nyrissa shows up in all her glory to "bless" the wedding of "my son."

Holy s~~!. This is gold.

Actually, I think I'm going to have the three attacks anyway. The last few months have been REALLY heavy on kingdom politics. My players haven't had a good large-scale combat in a while.

For the tournament attack, I'm prepping a couple fey armies (probably centaurs, satyrs and ents) to fight the the Pitax heralds and wardens who are present, while the central area will be assaulted by an "elite" force led by a mythic-ized zomok and a mythic treant.

EDIT: Now that I think of it ... no Nyrissa at the wedding. I want to keep her offstage for a while longer. Having the Knurly Witch or Phomandala show up would be pretty good, though.


A pity the Forest Kingdom Compendium that Jason and the rest of the Legendary Games team is work probably isn't going to be ready before you run the tournament. They got content in there for running tournaments.


I'm actually just finishing the tournament. The events ended up being so-so; the real meat of it was my players schmoozing the various factions, putting together what was going on, and then forging their own alliance.

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