We like to experiment with rules options via play rather than in theory. We ran CotCT on a hyper-accelerated levelling, low magic item campaign. Then RotRL on a super-slow levelling rate with oodles of magical items.
The next campaign we're thinking of trying out the slow healing rules (where Short Rests take 8 hours and Long Rests take a week - although we'll probably have some of the daily powers refresh at a slow rate overnight - so one use of rage/one spell slot regained per night until the week is up when the rest come back...or something. The details are still in the works). Anyhow:
What Paizo AP do you think would work best under that assumption? (Although it can't be any of the following: RotRL, CotCT, Kingmaker, Second Darkness, Serpent's Skull, Iron Gods, Reign of Winter). I was thinking Carrion Crown as the scarcity of resources might fit in well with the horror themes.
Any thoughts?
I was going to suggest Carrion Crown as well. I think it would fit in with the theme of it, but I am not sure if the storyline has a "timeline" where if you don't get such-and-such done in a certain time, then this would happen. Of course, you could just do away with that, but I could be completely wrong.
So yeah, I would suggest Carrion Crown.
A sandbox style campaign would works really well for gritty, so kingmaker. Or if you go WotC, then Storm King's Thunder.
Carrion Crown isn't really that scary; like, at all. It's just a loose collection of horror themes slapped together with a poorly connected over-arching plot.
Reduced access to resources doesn't necessarily make it scary, it just makes it a bit harder and/or gives more downtime.
A sandbox style campaign would works really well for gritty, so kingmaker. Or if you go WotC, then Storm King's Thunder.
We've played through kingmaker, so that's out. Storm Kings Thunder is an option, but I'd prefer a paizo AP.
Carrion Crown isn't really that scary; like, at all. It's just a loose collection of horror themes slapped together with a poorly connected over-arching plot.
Reduced access to resources doesn't necessarily make it scary, it just makes it a bit harder and/or gives more downtime.
The reason I wondered about Carrion Crown is not so much that limited resources is scary but rather that reliable access to powerful resources allows you to negate a lot of horrific tropes.
I don't think scary is ever going to work with my players (they're not terribly invested and a little too quick to joke around). We can manage "thematically driven" campaigns though.
For gritty campaigns, do spellcasters only get spells once a week? And warlocks once per day?
Skull and Shackles could work well for this for a couple of reasons.
1. The PCs take their base of operations with them, which gives them somewhere to reasonably recuperate.
2. There are several encounter areas where having to be a bit more careful with hps and resources etc would make for very interesting challenges.
3. The game is looser with game time - there aren't immediate deadlines that force you to rush through. It's a long term game similar to Kingmaker in that regard.
4. I think the AP lends itself to a grittier more bloody game, particularly if you can crib some rules for peg legs, eye patches and hook hands etc.
I DM'd the first three books of Skull and Shackles and we loved it. I'm running them again for 5th ed and a different group because I enjoyed them so much - which to be fair is quite rare!
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^ I agree with The Sword.
In addition, the first book already starts out with the PCs forced to deal with stuff in a less-than-optimal way due to lack of equipment. Slow-renewing resources only intensifies that theme and ought to make them cautious at low levels rather than thinking they can and should take on the tyrannical captain all by themselves the first day.
However, that lack of equipment/resources is balanced by the fact that they are surrounded by a crew which can shore up their weaknesses and thus make a TPK less likely than if the party was on their own. (Bonus: if there are PC deaths, a player can pick a crewmember to take over and make a new hero of the story.)
Thanks for that. S&S is on the list of APS for the future. I'll move that up the queue perhaps.
There are rules for lasting injuries in the DMG so peg legs and eye patches could well make an appearance. :)
I hadn't seen those, I'll check those out.
I'm not sure on this, but I think it would need to be an AP that doesn't have a major time factor attached to it. A lot of the APs seem to move at a fairly fast pace in terms of game time, and with the increased time needed for rests you'll want an AP where the passage of time is more leisurely. Consequently, I agree that an AP like S&S would be a good one.
For gritty campaigns, do spellcasters only get spells once a week? And warlocks once per day?
That's the rule in the DMG (and the same for second wind, superiority dice etc), yes, but as long as you're doing variants you can change it to whatever you want.
I think the variant makes sense as it is. You'll do the standard 6-8 fights between long rests, 1-3 between short rests thing, or whatever you liked to do when it was days, and it should keep the same balance between classes. Tanks need rests to regain hitpoints, wizards need rests for slots.
However, this isn't to ignore the impact of this on the campaign, logistically. Long resting in the dungeon will become much harder. And the years will go buy and the seasons will change.
A variant I came up with is that a short rest takes 8h, but every third (or every seventh, or whatever you decide before you start) short rest counts as long. But, in some ways, I like the DMG's variant as is better. Resting up by the fireplace in the town for a week while watching the snow fall…
I've read a lot of reports from groups trying 'Gritty Healing' and being unhappy with it. I want to try it myself, but I can definitely see some problems.
Oh! Yeah, same here, the Lingering Injuries system I definitely use and love!
But, since I use it for when someone goes to 0 HP it usually don't happen to NPC:s so much since we seldom give them death saves.
(My philosophy is that HP is "luck", fatigue, very minor scratches, "fate", footing, position, upper hand in the battle, energy, optimism etc and "it's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye" i.e. like a Zorro, Robin Hood or chanbara film it's clink-clank-clink-clank ouch!
I.e. the blades are clanging until that final HP is lost and with it, the person is wounded and taken out of the fight.
But I would want to try the "longer rest" system to slow campaigns down, to have the seasons pass and the years go by. It's not necessarily that "the PC's meat takes longer to grow back", it's as much about emotional recovery. I dunno.)
However, this isn't to ignore the impact of this on the campaign, logistically. Long resting in the dungeon will become much harder. And the years will go by and the seasons will change.
A variant I came up with [Edit: not gonna use that variant]. But, in some ways, I like the DMG's variant as is better. Resting up by the fireplace in the town for a week while watching the snow fall…
OK, I think I've made up my mind for what I want to do for the next campaign.
I'll use the DMG variant—short rest one night, long rest one week; but I'll have some zones (I'm thinking inside some of the big dungeons) it'll be the normal 1h short, one night long.
I'm not going to add the healer's kit dependency; HP is still going to be primarily "fatigue & fate" rather than meat points. (We have Lingering Injuries for that.)
If the players think it's paradoxical that it's more relaxing inside the dangerous dungeon than in their home town, I'll show them this poem: Karin Boye — I rörelse (English translations under "engelska") and the rule will be known as the Karin Boye rule!
In the political dealings in the city, and on long desert or ocean trips, and when clearing small monster lairs, you have to ration your HP and slots carefully. If the wizard burns twelve slots in the faces of everyone else in the council, she better have a good hiding place to rest up for the coming week :D
Inside the bigger dungeons we can have the normal 5e action. Best of both worlds?
What if a short rest is 1 hour, but a long rest is 1d6 or 1d8 nights?
Or 1d4 nights at 1st level, 1d6 at 5th, 1d8 at 9th, 1d10 at 13th, and 1d12 at 17th? Or the reverse of this?
EDIT:
Or maybe introduce a "grievous wounds" system, where regular hit points are recovered with normal short and long rests, but "grievous wounds" lower your hit point maximum, which recover at the rate of 1 hit point per day.
A grievous wound would be the damage suffered on critical hits and the hits that drop you to 0 hit points.
What if a short rest is 1 hour, but a long rest is 1d6 or 1d8 nights?
Or 1d4 nights at 1st level, 1d6 at 5th, 1d8 at 9th, 1d10 at 13th, and 1d12 at 17th? Or the reverse of this?
EDIT:
Or maybe introduce a "grievous wounds" system, where regular hit points are recovered with normal short and long rests, but "grievous wounds" lower your hit point maximum, which recover at the rate of 1 hit point per day.
A grievous wound would be the damage suffered on critical hits and the hits that drop you to 0 hit points.
First of all: Try it! ABT — Always be testing.
Here's why I'm not going to go with these suggestions for my campaign.
First, I want about two or three shortrests per long rest. The classes are definitely designed with that in mind. (In practice, we've often had only one short rest per long rest in our games, which is unfair to Warlock and Battlemaster. Hopefully the slower rests will help alleviate that.)
Second, I don't want HP and health/wounds/meat to become even more tightly coupled than they already are. I see HP as "fatigue & fate" basically. I already use the lingering injuries table that creates real wounds.
I wish I could ABT, but my group meets less than once a month. When I DM, I try to encourage short rests. Even if I have to call it a lunch break. :-) Our party has a monk and a warlock, so they should be eager for short rests, and a Tempest cleric, so her Divine Channeling ability also recharges on a short rest. The swashbuckler rogue will soon take fighter levels to get Battlemaster maneuvers, so in about 5 levels or so.... The wizard benefits from Arcane Recovery on a short rest, too. Trying to remember of the shadow sorcerer gets any short rest bennies.
Four sessions in. They haven't been in a "quick resting zone" yet so it's been a test of the slow resting rules pretty much straight up.
It's been great. It really makes so many things work.
Since they're in a city. So I guess that's my answer to the OP, too. Political, urban AP:s.
We went deep into the altered rests rabbit hole and came out with a feel way more like D&D 1e ("omg should we fight that <relatively easy> thing?" and "we made it four rooms in today, we'll come back here tomorrow") :)
I imagine you decided already, but my vote is also for Kingmaker. Storm King's Thunder is blunderingly foolish in its approach and has been driving me (as a player) up the wall.
They have already played Kingmaker.
Steve, what did you decide?
We played fifth session yesterday. Exhaustion levels are dangerous
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It's not final yet but probably Carrion Crown. We have another plan to try a shorter AP and CC is easy to end after book three, so we can kill two birds with one stone.