Ye old sorcerer and a need for some old fashion Paizonian help!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

I am trying to take the PRG sorcerer and make a "battle sorcerer" concept for a character. What I am looking for is some advice on how to build a sorcerer (without dips into other classes or variant rules) that can fight with a blade (preferably a rapier) and still be a decent spellcaster.

The build is based on:

- 25 points for point buy
- human race
- level 4 sorcerer (no bloodline yet specified)

Can anyone help with some suggestions for a build?

I am thinking initial feats would have to be Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Finesse. Arcane Strike would be another one for 5th-level.

Thank you,
Chubbs McGee

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Would using the battle sorcerer work? Or are you looking for something independent of variants

Silver Crusade

Lazaro wrote:
Would using the battle sorcerer work? Or are you looking for something independent of variants

Unfortunately, it has to be pure Pathfinder without resorting to non-Paizo products.


Well... You want to play human, then you have to spend a feat to get martial Weapon Prof. Of course, you get these nice bonus skill ranks... BUT! If you chose half-orc, you have falchion and greataxe prof. for free, yes you miss out on bonus skill ranks, but hey, win some loose some... If you get a good strength and such, you might have something going for you. Im not saying this is optimal in any way, but it might be fun, so here goes:
Str 16 (10)
Dex 13 (3)
Con 14 (5)
Int 12 (2)
Wis 8 (-2)
Cha 15 (7)
your +2 bonus you can put wherever you want :-)
Feat: Combat casting if you want to be in the thick of things or Arcane Strike, to bring some hurt to the enemies...
Pref Class: Might go for either skills or Hp, depending on prefferences..
Weapon: Falchion might be your best choice, but that is a question of taste...

I know, this what not exactly what you asked for, but still :-)
But for a human it'll be pretty much the same, except you must use a feat to get the martial weapon...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What you're looking for is going to require more compromises. You can be a decent spellcaster, but you're never going to be anything but sub par as a swordsman staying straight class.

If you go Elf, you can save yourself the need for the basic martial proficiency feat and you'll have the exact sword swinger you asked for. But basically all your feats will need to shore up your weak combat. Similarly you'll be choosing your spells on the basis of buffing yourself and hindering your opponents, mage armor, shield, blur, displacement, haste, etc.

Arcane Strike and Weapon Finesse would be feats I'd look into... as a Dex fighter would be a good strategy, build up dex to protect yourself, get initiative and hits, arcane strike to buff up damage. and combat casting because the majority of your casting is going to be in threat range.

Probably the Arcane Bloodline would be the best way to go, with weapon bond being the natural followup.


Is multi-classing the first four levels out of the question? It'd make things a lot easier, to go 2 paladin/2 sorcerer for example. If it is however, I'd go with something similar to Gworeth's build. You should have a beginning strength of at least 18 to make up for your bad attack bonus, and try to get the charisma up to 16 as well. At level six you should go straight into dragon disciple, it'll help pump up your hit points and attack bonus.

Liberty's Edge

I would agree with having the arcane bloodline, then choosing your bond to be your weapon of choice.

STR:14(5)
DEX:16(10)
CON:14(5)
INT:10(0)
WIS:8(-2)
CHA:15 (7)

You could add your +2 to dex, then add all your level up stat boosts to CHA so you have 19 by lvl 16 so you don't delay your level 9 spells.(I know most campaigns don't get that high so it may not matter)

Bonded Rapier
-You will be able to enchant this yourself as you get stronger.

1:Martial Weapon Prof(Rapier)
H:Weapon Finesse
3:Arcane Strike

Once you hit 5...
5:Combat casting

Put your favored class bonus into HP to give you 9+(3d6+9) at lvl 4

This would give you 3 skill points per level to toy with which isn't too bad.

This will put you at +7 to hit at level 4 which is nice and an AC of 14(18 with mage armor). You'd be on par with a cleric in the melee catagory, which I think suits what you want for a concept.


Shar Tahl wrote:

[good stuff]

Put your favored class bonus into HP to give you 9+(3d6+9) at lvl 4

This would give you 3 skill points per level to toy with which isn't too bad.

[good stuff]

I only see 2 skill points per level.

Liberty's Edge

Human bonus of 1 per level on top of the sorcerer 2 per level.


Shar Tahl wrote:
Human bonus of 1 per level on top of the sorcerer 2 per level.

Duh! ~head slap~

Thanks.


Are you looking for a sorceror who primarily fights in melee or a sorceror who can swing a rapier on occasion but the rapier affectation is basically for flavor?

The long and short of it is that 1/2 BAB casters are pretty much subpar in melee and even if you go Eldritch Knight your ability to rumble with the melee brutes is pretty limited.

As such massive investment in making a battle sorceror is probably a lost cause if you are wanting an optimized character. If you aren't looking for optimized (concept over effectiveness) then there are a ton of fun flavorful things you can do but if the rest of the group is optimized you might feel a bit of a fifth wheel.

Low Investment Build

Elf
Str-14
Dex-16 (14 + 2 Elf)
Con-12 (14 - 2 Elf)
Int-14 (12 + 2 Elf)
Wis-11
Cha-16 (15 + 1 Level)

I kinda like the Destined Bloodline personally (Touch of Destiny actually scales pretty well as a buff).

Skill Points- 4/level (UMD + Bluff are critical; extras are bonus)

Feats
1-Weapon Finesse
3-Imp Init
5-Combat Casting
7-Defensive Combat Training
7(Bloodline)- Arcane Strike

Go with the +1 HP per HD choice

When you attack with your rapier your attack bonus is +5 and your damage is d6 + 2. Later on when you get arcane strike you can boost your damage and your weapon counts as magical without having to invest in a +1 weapon.


Are bestiary races aloud? Remember that Outsider, even Outsiders(native), are proficient with all martial and simple weapons. I recomend Asimar.

This grants you access to Eldritch Knigth at 7th level without dipping into a martial class (you might prefer to do it at 8th to pick the bonus feat), what lets you use more effectively the polymorph line of spells. Note that the ¨+1 level in existing arcane spell casting class¨ also stack for spells known, so you won´t lose bloodline spells (don't know if the extra from Arcane will stack)

If you do this, you should pick a reach weapon at early levels and be a second line fighter. Like you want to be melee, STR and CON would be the most important, you can survive with a relatively average CHA thanks to Headbands of Alluring Charisma.

In case you pick Asimar as your race I suggest stats like this:

STR 18 (17)
DEX 14 (5)
CON 14 (5)
INT 10 (0)
WIS 9 (-4)
CHA 14 (2)

Adding the +1 to STR every fourth level. If you do this, focus in spells that don't require saving throws of have good side effects even if the save is made like the Summon Monster spells, Black Tentacles, Grease, Invisibilty and the buffs you plan on using. Like you are starting at level 4 I recomend the picking the following spells:

Arcane Bloodline
1st.- Mage Armor(to be retrained), Grease, either Mount or Silent Image,Identify(bonus)
2nd.- Bull's Strength (to be retrained later)

Next level picking either Mount (to be retrained) or Silent Image, Mirror Image and Invisibility (bonus)

Humbly,
Yawar


since you are thinking finesse, you might want to check out the Dervish Dance feat from the Qadira pathfinder companion. it would mean using scimitar rather than rapier and spending another feat and a couple of skill points, but you would replace str to damage with dex to damage.
that way you could pump dex and dump str, which is good as armor is not a good idea for you.

so your feats would be: martial prof (scimitar), weapon finesse, dervish dance and probably arcane strike.

but agree with others that there is no way to get the best of everything with this type of character unless you go to outside material. it is smarter to focus on either spells (i.e. charisma and sorcerer only) or melee (i.e. dexterity and take martial classes then eldritch knight/arcane archer) and make the feats line up with this. without multiclassing you are going to be very vulnerable in melee even with buffing spells unless you find a way to greatly increase hit points and your base attack is going to be painfully low. are you opposed to being an archer? that tends to be a better strategy for straight casters.

dark horse possibility is going bard.


Outsiders without racial hit dice do not receive free weapon proficiencies. Thus Aasimar and Tieflings need to multiclass in order to unlock Eldritch Knight builds.

Further Sorceror spell progression on an Eldritch Knight is pretty horrible. I think if you are going for the mystic warrior approach with the sorceror class the better build is the draconic sorceror/paladin dragon disciple.


Can't see how you'd get a viable fighting sorcerer without taking a dip somehwere.

This character is crying out for a level dip in fighter/paladin/ranger and then prestiging into eldritch knight.

17th level character with BAB 14, caster level 15, quickened magic, what more could you ask for?

Yes you do lose the advanced sorcerer bloodline abilities, but nearly full BAB and caster level progression can't be sniffed at.


vuron wrote:

Outsiders without racial hit dice do not receive free weapon proficiencies. Thus Aasimar and Tieflings need to multiclass in order to unlock Eldritch Knight builds.

Further Sorceror spell progression on an Eldritch Knight is pretty horrible. I think if you are going for the mystic warrior approach with the sorceror class the better build is the draconic sorceror/paladin dragon disciple.

Source please, I can't find such exception in the bestiary introduction for Types, the Outsider' or Outsider's (Native) description.


YawarFiesta wrote:
vuron wrote:

Outsiders without racial hit dice do not receive free weapon proficiencies. Thus Aasimar and Tieflings need to multiclass in order to unlock Eldritch Knight builds.

Further Sorceror spell progression on an Eldritch Knight is pretty horrible. I think if you are going for the mystic warrior approach with the sorceror class the better build is the draconic sorceror/paladin dragon disciple.

Source please, I can't find such exception in the bestiary introduction for Types, the Outsider' or Outsider's (Native) description.

I don't think that Jason as such has ever chimed in but Ross did in this comment

Ross Byers wrote:


Tieflings don't have racial hit dice, they advance by character class. So they don't actually get the outsider proficiencies.

Aasimars get the racial traits listed in the bestiary on page 7 but nothing else.

Which definitely slows down CharOp EK/Spellsword build but honestly I think that's Rules as Intended.

Grand Lodge

It's going to be almost impossible to make a sorcerer who is competent in melee without dipping into another class. The flame blade spell could work, since it's a touch attack, but I can't see any way to get it as a sorcerer. The poor BAB is just a killer.

The big issue is that the sorcerer is going to have to spend several rounds buffing himself before entering melee. Depending on your group, that may annoy some of the other players.

Dragon disciple offers strength boosts that will help in time. Does it have to be a sorcerer? The oracle playtest class would work much better for this, although you are choosing from the cleric spell list instead of the sorcerer/wizard one. More background info on the player and your group would probably help.


The OP said

- human
- sorcerer only
- paizo rules only

I think there is pretty much no way to have this besides pouring all available feats into this concept. Honestly, I would rather take the draconic bloodline and use the claws, and no blade.

Feats:
- martial weapon prof. (some blade)
- weapon focus (the same)
- perhaps armor prof. light
- arcane armor training

or if you go for a high dex (which I would recommend)

- martial weapon prof. (rapier)
- weapon focus (rapier)
- weapon finesse
- two-weapon-fighting (lvl 4)

(using rapier and dagger, to make the most of the dex)

regarding stats, I would go for

St 12(2), Dx 16(10), Co 13(3), In 10(0), Wi 10(0), Ch 16(10)

So you would get the most out of the light weapons, and your sorcery, with at least some bonus damage, and some bonus hp (you will need them). I would put the +1 in Co at level four.

So you would get 7 hp at level 1, average 13 for the next three, and another +4 for the con bonus, and +1 for each level, for 28 hp average.

AC 13 is nothing for a fighter, to be honest - I would recommend AC bonus spells.

BAB +2, +3 finesse, +1 focus, +1 MW weapon = +7 rapier single handed, damage 1d6+1, crit 18-20/x2 - nothing great, but ok. The crit is nice.

In the end, a sorcerer does not do well in a melee - as it should be.

Stefan


Chubbs McGee wrote:

I am trying to take the PRG sorcerer and make a "battle sorcerer" concept for a character. What I am looking for is some advice on how to build a sorcerer (without dips into other classes or variant rules) that can fight with a blade (preferably a rapier) and still be a decent spellcaster.

The build is based on:

- 25 points for point buy
- human race
- level 4 sorcerer (no bloodline yet specified)

Can anyone help with some suggestions for a build?

I am thinking initial feats would have to be Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Finesse. Arcane Strike would be another one for 5th-level.

OK, let's see.

- Sorcerer
- Melee-oriented
- No multiclassing
- No variant rules (core PF only)
- Uses a blade
- Decent spellcaster
- 25 point buy
- human
- level 4 sorcerer

Well, first of all, human would normally limit your options with blades. The best blade for this build is the falchion (if you're half-orc) or the elven curve blade (if you play an elf). If you must have a blade, you can take a greatsword proficiency at first level. You really want to have as much damage as possible behind every swing. I see what you're trying to do with Dexterity (using Weapon Finesse), but you really need damage behind the swings. The rapier just doesn't have damage behind it at the early levels. If you're worried about melee defenses, there are a lot of spells that can help you with defense, including mage armor/shield, mirror image, displacement, and stoneskin.

So let's assume a human sorcerer with MWP: greatsword. You want to kill things with the greatsword, so you don't really need to worry about your spells directly killing things with saves. Thus you don't really need a very high Charisma or a very high Dexterity. You need just enough Charisma to cast 9th level spells (15 + 4 ability boosts sounds good). You don't really need Int or Wisdom for your class abilities, so you can dump them pretty hard. You have good Will saves with a sorcerer, so Wisdom really is worthless. Since you're human, you get an additional skill point, so a non-negative Int value isn't necessary. That leaves us with pure Str and Con. . .

18 (10) (+2 human)
12 (2)
16 (10)
8 (-2)
8 (-2)
16 (7) (+1 ability)

In melee, you really need two things for defense: AC and HP. AC is easier to deal with because you have ways to boost AC and avoid getting hit. HP is a bit harder to get around. I'd definitely suggest Toughness as a first level feat. I'd also suggest taking hp as favored class bonus. For third level, since you qualify for Power Attack, you might as well take it. . . but Combat Casting is *very* tempting -- both are very good choices, depending on how you play. Remember, you need to be able to maximize damage. 5th level is indeed a good level for Arcane Strike. . . since you get more damage with it.

H: Martial Weapon Proficiency: Greatsword
1: Toughness
2: -
3: Power Attack or Combat Casting
4: -
(5: Arcane Strike)

If you play with traits, I'd suggest the +1 trait bonus on Fortitude saves and the +1 trait bonus on Reflex saves (they need all the help they can get).

Spell selection is the tricky part with sorcerers -- and now bloodline selection plays into that. I'm stopping here because that is a different post q:


I would recommend the draconic bloodline, an then go into dragon disciple as soon as you are able. You lose a few spell casting levels but the strength boost really helps, as does the extra natural armor increases. I am playing a sorcer5/dd5 right now and when he's buffed he can hit pretty darn hard. Mind you your main weapon would be claws, and strength would be your key stat (leaving charisma to second). This means a 2handed weapon would make more sense then a rapier, but that is up to you ofcourse.


sieylianna wrote:
The flame blade spell could work, since it's a touch attack, but I can't see any way to get it as a sorcerer. The poor BAB is just a killer.

sorcerers have UMD and high charisma so a wand would work, but not practical for level 4 because of expense and the DC unless that is a focus of the character.

I hate to bring it up, because it is cheesy as heck and it kind of breaks Dervish Dance, BUT you could probably get away with applying dervish dance to the flame blade spell, because of the wording of the spell and feat. touch attacks for d8+1+dex is not too shabby. would suck to meet something with fire resistance though. not that it is common or anything ;-)


just fleshing out a bit more a cheesy build that uses dervish dance and flame blade:

lightsaber freak:
sorcerer4 abberant bloodline
S10 D20 C14 I10 W10 Ch15 (includes +3 to dex with level and racial)
AC 19/15/14 (includes mage armor)
feats: martial weapon proficiency(scimitar) weapon finesse, Dervish dance
skill ranks: 4 UMD 2 Perform dance(prerequisite), 4 acrobatics, 2 perception (or bluff)
spells known: 1) mage armor, enlarge person (bonus), shield, ?
2) cat's grace

masterwork (or +1) scimitar: +8 (d8+5)
flame blade (from wand, will make UMD check 45% of the time):
+7 touch attack (10' range) d8+6, each charge lasts 3 minutes

acidic ray 30' range touch 1d6+2, usable 5/day

with shield, enlarge person and cat's grace:

AC 24/16/20, scimitar does 2d6+6 and has 10' reach but flame blade has 15' reach

exotic, and maybe fun, but not overpowered really. I am guessing a strength build would hit harder, but have worse AC and initiative. any kind of spell resistance or fire resitance will completely shut down the flame blade goodness.

a less exotic choice is dragon bloodline for the NA, energy resistance, perception bonus

I think a bard at this level (L4) could do anything this guy could do and more. well, except the reach, but a GM might argue whether it applies in any case. bards have better BAB, better hit die, light armor, more skills, same level spells and spells known (but fewer castings and an arguably worse spell list), bardic knowledge and performance, good reflex saves. would still have the same feats because they aren't proficient with scimitar.

Silver Crusade

Thank you for all the advice and the builds guys! I will endeavour to build the character over the weekend.


Chubbs McGee wrote:
Thank you for all the advice and the builds guys! I will endeavour to build the character over the weekend.

This: Sorcerer4/Fighter1/Dragon Disciple4/Eldritch Knight

You lose 3 levels of spellcasting overall (7th @ 10), but get a total of +3 Natural Armor, +4 Strength and you'll have a +7 BaB (+2 from Sor, +1 Ftr, +3DD, +1 EK) at 10th level. Plus you qualify for all the +6 BaB feats at 9th and 10th level. At 5th level you're getting 2 feats (level and Ftr). You could substitute Paladin for Fighter if you wanted, but that's for LG only. Regardless, you get all the weapon and armor feats in that one level dip and it's a big difference.

I'd build a Human for this - the extra feat alone helps out. Combat Casting is probably a must, as is Power Attack. Not 100% on the best defensive options. You could ignore DEX, use armor and Still Spell, but then you're just making your spellcasting even worse. Arcane Armor Training/Mastery will help, since you can't use Quickened Spell until much later (than normal) anyways. Then the Mithril Breastplate is your best option and you'll want DEX.

A two-handed weapon is your go-to damage dealer. It makes Power Attack better and with your DD boosted STR you should hit decently hard. Improved Initiative is always good for a caster, but Arcane Strike is...meh. It never impressed me. I know, for a feat, a scaling +X to damage is pretty good, but you wait a LONG time for that second +1 to damage (10th level for a straight caster!). YMMV.

Suggested Feat Progression (since you're building it at 4th level, I built it differently than I would have from the ground up):

Sor1: Improved Initiative, Power Attack
Sor3: Combat Casting
Ftr1: Arcane Armor Training (5th), Cleave (Ftr Bonus)
DD2: Toughness (DD Bloodline)*, Leadership** (7th)
DD3: Blindfight* (Blood of Dragons Bloodline Bonus Feat for 7th Sorcerer)
DD4: Arcane Armor Mastery (9th)
EK1: Vital Strike

If you can stand to wait for Improved Initiative until 7th level, then use your DD2 feat for Improved Initiative and DD3 for Toughness. Maybe take Arcane Strike at 1st level.

**You have high CHA and Leadership rocks. Consult with your GM. Otherwise, Weapon Focus with your favorite 2H weapon so you can Weapon Specialize later on as an EK. Or just take Arcane Strike.

Silver Crusade

I like the idea of the swashbuckling fencer type with spellcasting ability. What if I went with rogue/sorcerer? May be a 1/3 or 2/2 break down for level?

Grand Lodge

Chubbs McGee wrote:
I like the idea of the swashbuckling fencer type with spellcasting ability. What if I went with rogue/sorcerer? May be a 1/3 or 2/2 break down for level?

I'd go 2/2 since that lets you use a rogue talent for weapon finesse or weapon focus. I looked at a character like this recently. Mine used two daggers. Feats - Two weapon fighting, improved initiative, weapon focus dagger. Rogue talent, finesse rogue.

If you want to use rapier and dagger, then I'd drop weapon focus. I'd shoot for a high Dexterity and avoiding a strength penalty. The bulk of your damage is going to come from sneak attack.


Chubbs McGee wrote:
I like the idea of the swashbuckling fencer type with spellcasting ability. What if I went with rogue/sorcerer? May be a 1/3 or 2/2 break down for level?

arcane trickster thread has lots of feedback and ideas about this kind of character (i.e. an arcane rogue hybrid). the general feeling is that although it can be fun, it isn't as strong as a straight caster or rogue.

It is more popular to go with wizard and rogue because it is easier to get into the arcane trickster class that way, and Int to spellcasting and spells and Dex for combat is better than needing Cha, Int and Dex. but, the sorcerer bloodlines might be useful (e.g. the abberant if you want to use touch attacks a lot).

*If* you want to go down this road, (making a rogue/sorcerer melee character), I would take one level of sorcerer and 3 of rogue. I would also talk to your DM about whether you can apply sneak attack damage to your ranged touch (or touch) attack spells that deal damage (ray or frost, orb of acid, chill touch, etc.). In 3.5 you could (this was made clear in Complete Arcane), but it isn't clear that this is true in Pathfinder. There is no official ruling, and the arcane trickster capstone ability seems to grant this, which implies that it doesn't usually work. being able to ranged touch attack for sneak attack for 1d3+2d6 acid damage at will would be nice at this level.

Would it be enough to go straight rogue (or even a Charismatic fighter) and use wands, etc. with UMD? it would be a much stronger character that way. Otherwise, again, I would say bard is a better choice, unless your party needs a trapfinder.

It would really help to know what you need the character to do. does the party have a rogue? an arcane caster? a front-line melee character?


Chubbs McGee wrote:
I like the idea of the swashbuckling fencer type with spellcasting ability. What if I went with rogue/sorcerer? May be a 1/3 or 2/2 break down for level?

I'd still recommend Eldritch Knight. Just build him with fencing style feats (Dodge/Mobility/Improved Initiative/Combat Expertise) and spend some points on Acrobatics. The Arcane Trickster 3 level Rogue dip and poor BaB progression is bad for both spellcasters and melee types - ATs are more sneaky zappers/supreme scouts/ultimate burglars.

Swashbuckling EKs are more attribute dependent, though, than ATs. You could just play a bard. I wonder if Perform (Oratory) includes Snappy Banter? ^_^


Well, Chubbs, if you're determined to stick with the sorcerer class, he'll never be much of a melee guy.
The aberrant bloodline would give you 5' of extra reach, which would be good for your melee sorcerer.
Draconic has some bonus feats and spells that would help you out a little, too.
Without multiclassing, I think you've chosen your feats just fine, and he'll be able to fight better than most sorcerers, but that's about it!


vuron wrote:


Ross Byers wrote:


Tieflings don't have racial hit dice, they advance by character class. So they don't actually get the outsider proficiencies.

Aasimars get the racial traits listed in the bestiary on page 7 but nothing else.

Which definitely slows down CharOp EK/Spellsword build but honestly I think that's Rules as Intended.

You got a link to that. If racial HD are needed for certain features I would like for official errata to have such things stated.

Silver Crusade

Quote:
It would really help to know what you need the character to do. does the party have a rogue? an arcane caster? a front-line melee character?

The character would be filling the role of an arcane spellcaster and a rogue. The sorcerer class is for flavour and ties into the character background. I have considered the arcane trickster, but going up as a rogue/sorcerer could also be pretty fun.

I thought Combat Casting would be a must for a melee-spellcaster type?

Silver Crusade

Benicio Del Espada wrote:

Well, Chubbs, if you're determined to stick with the sorcerer class, he'll never be much of a melee guy.

The aberrant bloodline would give you 5' of extra reach, which would be good for your melee sorcerer.
Draconic has some bonus feats and spells that would help you out a little, too.
Without multiclassing, I think you've chosen your feats just fine, and he'll be able to fight better than most sorcerers, but that's about it!

Here is the character:

MARIANNA LUCIANA MERIVANCHI

Female human rogue 2/wizard 2
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 feat); Senses Perception +6 (+0 Wis, +1 rank, +3 trained, +2 feat)

Defense
Armor Class 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
Armor Class (armor) 14, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +3 armor; leather armor)
Armor Class (magic) 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+2 Dex, +4 armor; mage armor)
Hit Points 30 (2d8+2 plus 2d6+2)
Saving Throws Fort +1 (+1 Con, +0 base), Ref +5 (+2 Dex, +3 base), Will +3 (+0 Wis, +3 base)
Resist acid 0, cold 0, electricity 0, fire 0, sonic 0
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune none
Combat Maneuver Defense 14

Offense
Speed 30 feet (x4 run); Climb 8 feet; Swim 15 feet
Base Attack Bonus +2
Melee +4 (+2 BAB, +0 Str, +2 feat)
Dagger +4 melee (1d4; 19-20/x2; +2 bonus to conceal)
Rapier +4 melee (1d6; 18-20/x2)
Unarmed strike +4 melee (1d3; x2)
Ranged +4 (+2 BAB, +2 Dex)
Thrown dagger +4 ranged (1d4; 19-20/x2; 10 feet range increment; +2 bonus to conceal)
Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6
Combat Maneuver Bonus +2

Magic
Bloodline Arcane
Bloodline Arcana Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell’s DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.
Concentration +13 (+5 Cha, +4 CL, +4 feat)
Spellweaving +12 (+5 Cha, +4 ranks, +3 trained)
Caster Level 4th
Spell Save DC 15 + spell level
Spells Per Day Cantrips - at will, 1st-level - 6

Spells
1st-level - disguise self, mage armor, magic missile, true strike
Cantrips - acid splash, arcane mark, daze, detect magic, disrupt undead, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic

Statistics
Abilities Str 10 (+0), Dex 14 (+2), Con 13 (+1), Int 16 (+3), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 20 (+5)
Feats Alertness, Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +6, Appraise +7, Bluff +9, Climb +4, Diplomacy +9, Disable Device +6, Disguise +11, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (nobility) +7, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Linguistics +10, Perception +6, Perform (dance) +9, Profession (mercenary) +4, Ride +3, Sense Motive +6, Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +12, Stealth +9, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +9
Languages Azlanti, Draconic, Elven, Halfling, Jitska, Sylvan, Taldane, Thassilonian, Varisian
Special Qualities Arcane bond (familiar, cat) (ex), cantrips (sp), evasion (ex), rogue talent (finesse rogue) (ex), sneak attack +1d6 (ex), trapfinding (ex)
Traits Fencer, Magical Knack (sorcerer)
Gear Dagger x3, familiar pocket, disguise kit, ivory scroll case, jewelery (gold chain, silver signet ring, white gold engagement ring), leather purse, leather writing kit, potion of cure light wounds (CL 3rd) x2, rapier, ring of sustenance, scroll of invisibility (CL 3rd) x6, Scroll of mage armour (CL 3rd) x3, spell component pouch, thieves' tools, traveler's outfit, wand of magic missiles (CL 5th; 47 charges)
Favored Class Sorcerer
Experience 9,000/15,000

The reason her number of known spells are so high is that our campaign uses the Spellweaver magic system. The character has to succeed at a Spellcraft check against a DC to cast her chosen spell successfully. Our GM also allows us a bonus to our spells known, based on the primary casting stat. This also allows us to modifier the spells nature and potentially over-cast when we're out of spells per day.

She is alreay active in our Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign (our journal is under the League of Ordinary Gamers), but I was allowed a rebuild. Essentially she has gone from being a rogue/wizard to a rogue/sorcerer due to events in our campaign. A long story that will eventually be posted.

How does this build look?

I am not really looking to make her the most powerful character I can, as I have to keep to some established rules and abilities that she has demonstrated in the past, but may some ways of shoring her up a bit in now and in the future. The campaign is also heavy roleplaying and less action than the original version of the adventure path.

I am thinking of Arcane Strike as her 5th-level feat.

EDIT: Someone pointed out I should have mentioned some of the above before I posted. Noted. Sorry for leaving out those details.


looks like an interesting backstory and campaign.
roleplaying fun is somewhat independent of your character sheet, BUT, it is a real drag when your character can't do what you want them to do.

Personally, I wouldn't take this character into melee. take a look at CR4 monsters (or CR4 melee characters like fighters, barbarians, etc) and imagine what would happen if you went for a few rounds toe to toe with them. you would get creamed in a couple of rounds.

don't get me wrong, this is OK, just remember that you fall in the "squishy" category so stay out if you can. if you want to mix it up, your best bet is to use ranged or reach weapons or spring attack. based on the character concept, I would say the latter. you could also just focus on skills and casting support.

it seems like you are really gimped by your backstory, the whole sorcerer-wizard thing is a bit confusing for me, and maybe it explains your stats (high Cha), having a bloodline instead of a specialization, etc. But, if you don't have to do this, you might make some different choices. I would probably at the very least switch your Cha and Dex and try to put one more point into Con if you are going to do any melee. I would also probably also go with a Diviner for the initiative thing, and it fits with a rogue in any case.

so, I would change your feats - lose eschew materials and combat casting for sure, and if you switch dex and cha and take diviner, you can also lose improved initiative (but this is a great feat regardless), that would let you develop your melee competence a bit better - dodge mobility spring attack, or defensive maneuvers, toughness, arcane strike, MWP(scimitar) + dervish dance, etc...

you also might want to concentrate on a few skills, rather than spreading them out so much.

oh, and you don't need a spell component pouch with eschew materials! which is good with a Str 10.

Silver Crusade

Thanks again guys for the great advice. I will have to do some reworking! :D

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