Feast of Ravenmoor, CdG, another question about it. Spoiler ahead!

[Chyrone]

Hello fellow GMs.

Spoiler:

The party is about to fight the shapeshifter spider.
In the PDF, she is mentioned 'to finish off her foes'.
She eats pig, but as we all have heard, pigs are much alike to humans when it comes to organs.

Given that she will try to put as many people to sleep as she can, and this is the most unlikely scenario, would she CdG PCs, if she had the chance?

It'd be a 1st to use it and i'd rather not. But if 'finishing off foes' is a description, that sounds the most likely course of action.

Advice much appreciated.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

CdG is a full-round action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity. If the party is there engaging the target, and they try to do that, it could get really messy for the NPC, depending on where the fighting is happening.

[Chyrone]

Indoors.

I'm only taking worst case scenario, where they are asleep from her spells.

[Ascalaphus]

If nobody's threatening her, because she put everyone to sleep, then yes.

But it's good to point out OOC to your players that:
- Waking someone up takes a Standard action that doesn't provoke
- She probably won't do it as long as doing so might draw an AoO, so one way to keep her from going for the kill is to keep pressing her in melee.

Also, keep in mind that Sleep has a strict limit on how many HD it can affect, including people that make their save. In a level 2-4 module, that should be at most 2 people per spell.

[nosig]

and remember that Sleep is a full round to cast...

and if any of the PCs are Elven... though I have seen table variation on whether to count Elven Dice in the 4 dice limit (does a 2nd level Elf PC subtract 2 from the total, even though immune?).

[Ascalaphus]

I suppose there's a case for not counting immune targets.. I don't think I'd count undead or constructs either.

[nosig]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I suppose there's a case for not counting immune targets.. I don't think I'd count undead or constructs either.

Target is "one or more living creatures..." so no undead... maybe not constructs either?

But I would count elves. Used to I wouldn't, but I have changed my view on this a couple years ago. I have played for judges who still do it the way I used to and don't count elves.

[Ascalaphus]

Constructs are neither alive nor dead nor undead.

With elves, it'd be be either "this is simply not a valid target, so no HD are spent" OR "hah, turns out you chose that target poorly".

[nosig]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Constructs are neither alive nor dead nor undead.

With elves, it'd be be either "this is simply not a valid target, so no HD are spent" OR "hah, turns out you chose that target poorly".

in other words... expect "...table variation on whether to count Elven Dice... "

[Ascalaphus]

Feh, table variation is for when I'm too lazy to look things up.

Sleep spell wrote:

Sleep does not target unconscious creatures, constructs, or undead creatures.

That's quite specific, not a "such as for example including not limited to" list but a definite enumeration of things not targeted. So I'd say everything else does get targeted, useful or no (elf).

["Auntie" Baltwin]

And gotta remember familiars...

[Ascalaphus]

...which, for this purpose, count as having the HD of the maaaaaster...

["Auntie" Baltwin]

Ascalaphus wrote:

...which, for this purpose, count as having the HD of the maaaaaster...

So a 2nd level wizard, has a 2 HD familiar (which would be 4 dice to sleep them both).

In fact, an elven wizard/rogue (1/1) would have a two HD familiar... And the wizard couldn't be effected, though his familiar could be.

[Ascalaphus]

Yeah. Sleep can be scary when it works, but there are a lot of safeguards built in. Basically, as long as the party works as a team instead of everyone for himself, it should be safe enough.

[Chyrone]

As i said...the most unlikely, as the bloodrager critted the spider in the second round with her greatsword.

[Finlanderboy]

Honestly, I never had the spider as a viable threat. Usually I have her charm a few pcs and maybe get a bite off while the charmed pcs try to talk each side out of the fight.

She does not have the tools to be a threat.

[Fromper]

Finlanderboy wrote:

Honestly, I never had the spider as a viable threat. Usually I have her charm a few pcs and maybe get a bite off while the charmed pcs try to talk each side out of the fight.

She does not have the tools to be a threat.

Yeah, she doesn't have enough offense to be that dangerous. She does have the defense to make it last a while, though. When I played this, she was hanging from the rafters, high enough to be out of melee reach, with a high enough AC after casting Shield that we had a hard time hitting her with ranged attacks.

[Jessex]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Feh, table variation is for when I'm too lazy to look things up.

Sleep spell wrote:

Sleep does not target unconscious creatures, constructs, or undead creatures.

That's quite specific, not a "such as for example including not limited to" list but a definite enumeration of things not targeted. So I'd say everything else does get targeted, useful or no (elf).

That's how I've always seen it judged. It targets the elf but fails to do anything.

[kinevon]

Fromper wrote:

Finlanderboy wrote:

Honestly, I never had the spider as a viable threat. Usually I have her charm a few pcs and maybe get a bite off while the charmed pcs try to talk each side out of the fight.

She does not have the tools to be a threat.

Yeah, she doesn't have enough offense to be that dangerous. She does have the defense to make it last a while, though. When I played this, she was hanging from the rafters, high enough to be out of melee reach, with a high enough AC after casting Shield that we had a hard time hitting her with ranged attacks.

My player group included a gunslinger, but that is too low level for Dex to damage, so he plinked away at her until she fell. More nuisance than anything else.