When you use a Thrashing Dragon Strike like Swift Claws or Flick of the Wrist, do you apply two-weapon fighting penalties?
If not, don't you get weird things like initiators carrying two bastard swords around?
Sort of in the same boat: can you wield a two-handed weapon and use the thrashing dragon strikes to attack with it and armor spikes? even if you don't have Two-Weapon Fighting?
When you use a Thrashing Dragon Strike like Swift Claws or Flick of the Wrist, do you apply two-weapon fighting penalties?
If not, don't you get weird things like initiators carrying two bastard swords around?
The answer to that question is a bit complicated. By RAW, the two weapon fighting penalties wouldn't apply because Two Weapon Fighting is a specific full attack action in Pathfinder, instead of a conditional effect that applies whenever attacks are made with two different weapons. However, the penalties for two weapon fighting are only numerical bonuses, and the restrictions on weapon handedness still apply.
So, in theory, a character with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) could wield two bastard swords, each in one hand, in order to perform the Swift Claws maneuver wouldn't take TWF penalties.
On the other hand, Swift Claws and several other maneuvers are slated for errata to fix their wording issues. Still, thank you for the question.
Sort of in the same boat: can you wield a two-handed weapon and use the thrashing dragon strikes to attack with it and armor spikes? even if you don't have Two-Weapon Fighting?
This is an easier question to answer: Yes, you can Two Weapon Fight with Armor Spikes and a separate weapon. Note however, that paizo released a FAQ that prevents two weapon fighting with armor spikes and a two handed weapon (and also using armor spikes to cover that gap in your threatened area caused by wielding a reach weapon).
Notably, the feat Two Weapon Fighting is in no way necessary to Two Weapon fight. It reduces the attack roll penalties for using the Two Weapon Fighting action, but the action can still be taken normally regardless of you having the feat.
When you use a Thrashing Dragon Strike like Swift Claws or Flick of the Wrist, do you apply two-weapon fighting penalties?
If not, don't you get weird things like initiators carrying two bastard swords around?
The answer to that question is a bit complicated. By RAW, the two weapon fighting penalties wouldn't apply because Two Weapon Fighting is a specific full attack action in Pathfinder, instead of a conditional effect that applies whenever attacks are made with two different weapons. However, the penalties for two weapon fighting are only numerical bonuses, and the restrictions on weapon handedness still apply.
So, in theory, a character with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) could wield two bastard swords, each in one hand, in order to perform the Swift Claws maneuver wouldn't take TWF penalties.
On the other hand, Swift Claws and several other maneuvers are slated for errata to fix their wording issues. Still, thank you for the question.
Sort of in the same boat: can you wield a two-handed weapon and use the thrashing dragon strikes to attack with it and armor spikes? even if you don't have Two-Weapon Fighting?This is an easier question to answer: Yes, you can Two Weapon Fight with Armor Spikes and a separate weapon. Note however, that paizo released a FAQ that prevents two weapon fighting with armor spikes and a two handed weapon (and also using armor spikes to cover that gap in your threatened area caused by wielding a reach weapon).
Notably, the feat Two Weapon Fighting is in no way necessary to Two Weapon fight. It reduces the attack roll penalties for using the Two Weapon Fighting action, but the action can still be taken normally regardless of you having the feat.
Since when could Armor Spikes not be used to threaten enemies that are adjacent? There was no FAQ released on that sort of thing, nor is there any Dev commentary that I'm aware of that would hint otherwise. There's only this one, and that says you can't use TWF with Armor Spikes and a Two-Handed Weapon because of the unwritten "Hands" rule. You could still certainly alternate attacks between the two weapons for iterative attacks, but you can't take the TWF action with them.
Ironically enough, you could theoretically use TWF with a Composite Bow and Armor Spikes, assuming you have the Snap Shot and Point Blank Master or Sword and Pistol feats, but you couldn't do so with a Greatsword because of the 1.5x Strength modifier you receive (compared to the 1x Strength modifier used with a Composite Bow).
Since when could Armor Spikes not be used to threaten enemies that are adjacent? There was no FAQ released on that sort of thing, nor is there any Dev commentary that I'm aware of that would hint otherwise. There's only this one, and that says you can't use TWF with Armor Spikes and a Two-Handed Weapon because of the unwritten "Hands" rule. You could still certainly alternate attacks between the two weapons for iterative attacks, but you can't take the TWF action with them.
Ironically enough, you could theoretically use TWF with a Composite Bow and Armor Spikes, assuming you have the Snap Shot and Point Blank Master or Sword and Pistol feats, but you couldn't do so with a Greatsword because of the 1.5x Strength modifier you receive (compared to the 1x Strength modifier used with a Composite Bow).
It's likely an (un)intended side effect of that same "handedness ruling" and the ruling that free actions can only be taken on your turn (Which led Dreamscarred Press to include "even if it is not your turn" on a lot of our free action effects). It really only applies to Attacks of Opportunity, but the breakdown is like this:
1. You need an "off hand" available to attack with either a spiked gauntlet or armor spikes and another weapon (per FAQ).
2. If you are wielding a two handed weapon, you do not have an "off hand" available (per FAQ).
3. Changing the handedness on your weapon is a free action.
4. Free Actions can only be taken on your turn.
On your turn you can change your handedness as a free action in order to hit enemies with both a reach weapon or a non reach weapon like Armor Spikes. Once your turn ends, you're stuck with the handedness you ended with and cannot change it until your next turn. As a result, you can either threaten enemies with your reach weapon, or your Armor Spikes, but not both. Hence the "hole" in your threatened area.
Also, Composite Longbows require two hands to wield, and thus you can't use both armor spikes and Composite Longbows to two weapon fight. Snap Shot does nothing to change this.
On the other hand, Swift Claws and several other maneuvers are slated for errata to fix their wording issues. Still, thank you for the question.
Any hints as to how they will change? :)
Notably, the feat Two Weapon Fighting is in no way necessary to Two Weapon fight. It reduces the attack roll penalties for using the Two Weapon Fighting action, but the action can still be taken normally regardless of you having the feat.
Oh, I know you don't need TWF. Though the difference between -10/-8 and "cant do it" is mostly semantic :p I just feel its weird that you can be a "dual-wielding initiator" but not be able to full-attack with your swords effectively because you did not take Two-Weapon Fighting.
Related to that: since you are not actually using Two-Weapon Fighting, how does the strength bonus work with these maneuvers? do you still only get 0.5 strength to the offhand? What if you are wielding a double weapon?
Also, I gotta say, I am really enjoying Path of War. It's the first third-party product I've managed to convince my group to embrace :) So far, its become our martial-character replacement, since its much more fun to have choices in combat instead of just always full-attacking.
Any hints as to how they will change? :)
Not at this time. Path of War: Expanded just went to layout, so we're finally able to take a break from it so that we can stop hating that book.
Oh, I know you don't need TWF. Though the difference between -10/-8 and "cant do it" is mostly semantic :p I just feel its weird that you can be a "dual-wielding initiator" but not be able to full-attack with your swords effectively because you did not take Two-Weapon Fighting.
Unfortunately, we didn't write pathfinder so DSP has to work within and around the system as it exists.
Related to that: since you are not actually using Two-Weapon Fighting, how does the strength bonus work with these maneuvers? do you still only get 0.5 strength to the offhand? What if you are wielding a double weapon?
Yes. You still have the normal strength bonuses to damage for fighting with two weapons. Notably, the "off hand" thing doesn't require two weapon fighting to be in effect. You can designate any weapon you wield to be in your off hand at any time.
Also, I gotta say, I am really enjoying Path of War. It's the first third-party product I've managed to convince my group to embrace :) So far, its become our martial-character replacement, since its much more fun to have choices in combat instead of just always full-attacking.
I'm glad you're enjoying it. You should take a look at Path of War: Expanded's playtest material as well if you haven't yet.
I'm pretty excited for Path of War Expanded. I've read the play-test stuff but have not tried it yet. My group is still figuring out how Path of War plays out, so we don't want to add too much new stuff.