Why do the following spells have the polymorph subtype?


Rules Questions

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Question
Why do the "aspect" spells and some of the "form" or "body" spells have the polymorph subtype, when they don't seem to meet the burden or utilize the rules inherent to that subtype?

Specific Spells and Some Evidence:
The polymorph subschool says "each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type", "your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume", and "you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form [...], as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form", among other relevant things.

The following spells were printed with the polymorph subtype, despite not appearing to use its rules or align with its purpose:

Animal Aspect (Ultimate Combat, pg.222)
This spell says "your base form is largely unchanged [...], but some of your body parts are altered". You don't actually transform into any of the listed animals, which fails to meet the polymorph burden, and if you try to apply the polymorph rules to this spell, it just becomes a mess (no base speed to adopt, etc.).

Animal Aspect, Greater (Ultimate Combat, pg.223)
This functions the same way as above.

Aspect of the Bear (Advanced Player's Guide, pg.203)
Again, "you take on an aspect of a bear" (emphasis mine), but you don't actually take the form of one.

Aspect of the Falcon (Advanced Player's Guide, pg.203)
This functions the same way as above.

Aspect of the Stag (Advanced Player's Guide, pg.203)
This functions the same way as above.

Aspect of the Wolf (Advanced Player's Guide, pg.204)
This functions the same way as above.

Dust Form (Ultimate Combat, pg.228)
This says "upon casting this spell, you keep your relative form", which again fails to meet polymorph's burden. Further, fiery body (Advanced Player's Guide, pg.221), ice body (Ultimate Magic, pg.224), and iron body (Core Rulebook, pg.302) work in much the same way, but (correctly, I believe) don't have the subtype.

Frightful Aspect (Ultimate Combat, pg.230)
I'm on the fence about this one. It says "you become a larger, awful version of yourself," but seems compatible with polymorph rules even if it doesn't totally seem like a polymorph spell.

Paragon Surge (Advanced Race Guide, pg.48)
This spell says "you surge with ancestral power, temporarily embodying all the strengths of both elvenkind and humankind simultaneously, and transforming into a paragon of both races", which doesn't really sound anything like taking the form of a creature of a particular type, and then immediately goes on to explain that this spell doesn't really use any of the polymorph rules.

Shadow Body (Occult Adventures, pg.186)
This appears to function the same way as dust form, above, but is less clear about it. Does this actually turn you into a shadow, as the creature? If so, maybe it is a polymorph spell.

Sonic Form (Advanced Class Guide, pg.193)
This functions the same way as dust form, above.


So that they cannot be stacked? You are only able to benefit from one Polymorph spell at a time.

There is no "burden" on spells. The Polymorph school is the "general rule", the specific spells are the exceptions. That the Poly school has the built in limitation of one effect, makes it ideal as a balancing point for effects the devs don't want stacked multiple times or with each other. Each of those spells obviously alters the character, presumably in ways that would make the character less itself and more like the named creature/form but not completely. I fail to see how that doesn't "fit" the Transmutation(Polymorph) school quite honestly.


Is is Arcane Cannon abjuration when the first sentence of the spell says "conjur"? Because that's how Paizo decided to go.

Also, what Skylancer4 said.

Dark Archive owner - Redcap's Corner, Owner - Redcap's Corner

Skylancer4 wrote:
So that they cannot be stacked? You are only able to benefit from one Polymorph spell at a time.

The problem is that most of these spells don't explicitly say "ignore the following rules of the polymorph subschool". They just proceed as though those rules don't exist, which means that for most of the above referenced spells there's either not enough information for the spells to work properly, or the spells have unintended consequences, like the caster suddenly no longer having a movement speed.

If the intention was to stop these spells from stacking with specific things, it would make a lot more sense to just say "the effects of this spell don't stack with [insert spell here]". I can see the designers not wanting the "aspect" spells to stack with each other, for instance (though it would hardly be game-breaking). I also agree that it's a little weird to allow the "body"/"form" spells to stack with each other, but as I've already pointed out, half of them have the polymorph subschool and half don't, so that's actually possible to do in various combinations at the moment already.

Skylancer4 wrote:
There is no "burden" on spells. The Polymorph school is the "general rule", the specific spells are the exceptions. That the Poly school has the built in limitation of one effect, makes it ideal as a balancing point for effects the devs don't want stacked multiple times or with each other. Each of those spells obviously alters the character, presumably in ways that would make the character less itself and more like the named creature/form but not completely. I fail to see how that doesn't "fit" the Transmutation(Polymorph) school quite honestly.

There absolutely is a burden. If I were to write a custom spell that had the exact text of dimension door, only it had the healing subschool instead of the teleportation subschool, I think you'd agree it didn't meet the burden of that particular inclusion. And the healing and teleportation subschools don't even have rules baggage, whereas the polymorph subschool has a ton of it. Polymorph has a very specific definition (transforming a creature into "the form of a creature of a specific type"), and a ton of extra rules to facilitate that, and it is neither useful as a definition if it has exceptions, nor functional when those exceptions fail to take its rules into consideration.

I agree that these spells are similar to polymorph spells, in that they're still transformative, but that only means they meet the burden of being transmutation spells, not necessarily polymorph spells. To use the "healing" example again, if I were to write a spell called cheer up that improves the attitude of the target toward all other creatures by one step, and then assign the healing subtype to the spell, I think you'd agree it wasn't the best fit. Well, healing is about making people feel better, right? My spell makes people feel better. It doesn't, however, meet the burden of "healing creatures or bringing them back to life", even if it's thematically similar.

Azten wrote:
Is is Arcane Cannon abjuration when the first sentence of the spell says "conjur"? Because that's how Paizo decided to go.

Actually, arcane cannon is a transmutation spell that never once uses the word "conjure" and, in fact, specifically says it transmutes the spell's focus into a cannon. Regardless, making nonsense rules "just because" is not a reasonable way to design a game. As the Paizo design team seems to be overwhelmingly reasonable in general, I think it's more likely someone merely didn't realize polymorph had so much rules baggage and/or wasn't clear on exactly what being a polymorph spell meant and just included the subtype without doing enough research.


I don't know what to tell you besides, I don't agree with your objections nor so I see any problem with Polymorph spells not being completely form changing.

I can only reiterate there is no burden as a spell can do whatever it says it can do. They are pretty much the entirety of exceptions in this exception based rule set. They give bonuses or abilities on a theme. If the designers didn't want those to get stacked with everything else, making the pertinent ones Poly sub schooled fits the bill.

You don't like it obviously. Doesn't mean it doesn't make sense or is somehow "wrong". It makes sense to me, and apparently to the people who wrote/edited it. To each their own.


Seems there was some editing done, because it did say conjure in the first printing of UM.

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