Altering Schools of Magic

[Indagare]

I was considering having some different schools of magic in addition to the usual ones. I'm listing all of them here, but I would like thoughts on the changes I'm considering making. New schools are in bold.
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1) Abjuration

2) Creation

3) Divination

4) Enchantment

---subschools

----Charm

----Compulsion

----Figment

----Glamer

----Pattern

----Phantasm

5) Evocation

6) Healing

7) Necromancy

8) Transmutation

9) Transportation

---subschools

----Calling

----Summoning

----Teleportation

Part of my problem is that Summoned creatures don't actually die when they are 'killed' so I wonder if they're really there to start with. That is, whether or not they're some variant of Shadow (Shadow Conjuration, maybe?). I wasn't sure where to put the Shadow subschool since it technically creates something out of nothing but it also belonged to Illusion, which I combined with Enchantment. Also, should Banishment be here somewhere?

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Milo v3]

I'd put "summoned" creatures as Creations personally. Thats what they were flavour-wise in the previous edition. Also, healing should be part of necromancy, since it's just manipulation of life force energies. Finally, illusion makes sense to be separate for some, like silent image that don't affect a target but are just an illusion that is placed in the environment.

[Knitifine]

I second the merging of healing with necromancy.
First of all, it's reasonably within the described purview of necromancy, and second of all I don't think there's enough healing spells to merit their own school.

[Indagare]

Milo v3 wrote:

I'd put "summoned" creatures as Creations personally. Thats what they were flavour-wise in the previous edition.

Yeah, they come across as Creations here too, which is why I'm trying to figure out exactly where they belong and what the best term might be. I'm quite willing to use 'conjure' for an object as part of Transportation and 'summon' for a creature as part of Creation.

Milo v3 wrote:

Also, healing should be part of necromancy, since it's just manipulation of life force energies.

Knitifine wrote:

I second the merging of healing with necromancy.

First of all, it's reasonably within the described purview of necromancy, and second of all I don't think there's enough healing spells to merit their own school.

Thanks! I was considering combining the two, but I'd want a new term for the school since it would deal with both life and death. Biomancy, perhaps?

Any thoughts on my combining Enchantment and Illusion?

[Milo v3]

Indagare wrote:

Thanks! I was considering combining the two, but I'd want a new term for the school since it would deal with both life and death. Biomancy, perhaps?

Animancy, referring to anima? Biollurgy?

Quote:

Any thoughts on my combining Enchantment and Illusion?

See my original post.

[Indagare]

Milo v3 wrote:

Indagare wrote:

Thanks! I was considering combining the two, but I'd want a new term for the school since it would deal with both life and death. Biomancy, perhaps?

Animancy, referring to anima? Biollurgy?

Quote:

Any thoughts on my combining Enchantment and Illusion?

See my original post.

That could work too.

Sorry, I didn't see that somehow. You're right that for silent images and such it would make some sense, but going through all the subschools, the sound like they're more Enchantment-related, especially Pattern and Phantasm:

Figment:

A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).

Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

A figment's AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.

Glamer:

A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Pattern:

Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.

Phantasm:

A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression, all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see. Third parties viewing or studying the scene don't notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.

[Milo v3]

Indagare wrote:

That could work too.

Sorry, I didn't see that somehow. You're right that for silent images and such it would make some sense, but going through all the subschools, the sound like they're more Enchantment-related, especially Pattern and Phantasm:

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Out of those, phantasm is the only one I'd say fits enchantment. All the others lay illusion into something, rather than affecting anyone mind (even pattern is just a visual image causing an effect similar to hypnosis or seizure inducement).

[Indagare]

Milo v3 wrote:

Out of those, phantasm is the only one I'd say fits enchantment. All the others lay illusion into something, rather than affecting anyone mind (even pattern is just a visual image causing an effect similar to hypnosis or seizure inducement).

Hmm, so updated:

1) Abjuration

2) Animancy
---subschools

----Healing

----Necromancy

3) Creation
---subshools

----Shadow

----Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

4) Divination

5) Enchantment
---subschools

----Charm

----Compulsion

----Phantasm

6) Evocation

7) Illusion
---subschools

----Figment

----Glamer

----Pattern

8) Transmutation

9) Transportation
---subschools

----Calling

----Conjuration: a conjuring spell instantly brings an object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled a conjured object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this.

----Teleportation

I'm still not entirely sold on Pattern being more Illusion than Enchantment since all of them are mind-affecting, but I put it there for the time being until I get more input.

[Milo v3]

Hmm... part of me thinks that shadow magic should be transportation, because it's mainly just grabbing planar matter and bringing it to the current plane.

[Indagare]

Milo v3 wrote:

Hmm... part of me thinks that shadow magic should be transportation, because it's mainly just grabbing planar matter and bringing it to the current plane.

Shadow magic is a bit tricky since it does create something but, as you point out, grabs the matter from elsewhere rather than out of nowhere. So updated again:

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1) Abjuration

2) Animancy
---subschools

----Healing

----Necromancy

3) Creation
---subshools

----Summoning

4) Divination

5) Enchantment
---subschools

----Charm

----Compulsion

----Phantasm

6) Evocation

7) Illusion
---subschools

----Figment

----Glamer

----Pattern

8) Transmutation

9) Transportation
---subschools

----Calling

----Conjuration

----Shadow

----Teleportation

[Milo v3]

I've actually personally been considering the following, but modifying the system to get it to work would take a while:

Metamagic - Magic that alters magic, Permanency, Dispel Magic, and Antimagic type stuff.
Divination - Magic that obtains information
Scrying
Cosmollurgy - Magic that moves things through the planes, whether it's calling effects, teleportation, evocation, shadow, planeshift, etc.
Calling
Teleporting
Shadow
Alchemy - Magic that transforms or alters objects
Creation
Biollurgy - Magic that transforms or alters physical creatures.
Healing
Summoning
Polymorph
Illusion - Magic that creates information in the world
Figment
Glamer
Pattern
Enchantment Magic that manipulates someone's mind
Charm
Compulsion
Phantasm

[Indagare]

Milo v3 wrote:

I've actually personally been considering the following, but modifying the system to get it to work would take a while:

Metamagic - Magic that alters magic, Permanency, Dispel Magic, and Antimagic type stuff.
Divination - Magic that obtains information
Scrying
Cosmollurgy - Magic that moves things through the planes, whether it's calling effects, teleportation, evocation, shadow, planeshift, etc.
Calling
Teleporting
Shadow
Alchemy - Magic that transforms or alters objects
Creation
Biollurgy - Magic that transforms or alters physical creatures.
Healing
Summoning
Polymorph
Illusion - Magic that creates information in the world
Figment
Glamer
Pattern
Enchantment Magic that manipulates someone's mind
Charm
Compulsion
Phantasm

I think that Summoning actually might better meet your definition of Cosmollurgy - at least the way the rules are written. Whatever creature is summoned doesn't seem to actually be there physically and 'reforms' if destroyed. I'm not sure how that fits into "transforms or alters physical creatures" unless you mean that a Summoned creature is somehow altered from the original in the process of summoning.

I'm still not convinced on Patterns as illusions. The definition of them directly states that they are mind-affecting spells.

[Milo v3]

Indagare wrote:

I think that Summoning actually might better meet your definition of Cosmollurgy - at least the way the rules are written. Whatever creature is summoned doesn't seem to actually be there physically and 'reforms' if destroyed. I'm not sure how that fits into "transforms or alters physical creatures" unless you mean that a Summoned creature is somehow altered from the original in the process of summoning.

It creates the creatures out of nowhere, the creatures weren't real beings, so you use biollurgy to shape the body spontaneously and animate it with positive, but it only lasts for a short period before the biollurgy collapses. If it was bringing real creatures in, it'd be calling magic.

Quote:

I'm still not convinced on Patterns as illusions. The definition of them directly states that they are mind-affecting spells.

It's mind-affecting because it's images that induce mental issues with flashes and patterns. Basically, it's like when strobe light causes seizures except the strobe lights is magically Better at inflicting these seizures.