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I'm sure everyone's wondering, I just can't find if anyone's been answered yet.
Can we use arcane strike on mystic bolt?
I'm sure everyone's wondering, I just can't find if anyone's been answered yet.
Can we use arcane strike on mystic bolt?
That is an excellent question.
I'm not sure I see why you couldnt?
Arcane strike states for 1 round your weapons get (various bonuses etc).
THe fluff does imply the weapon has to be inyour hand at the time. but mechanically it doesn't require that.
Mystic bolt should be a weapon as it's specifically allowed to take weapon focus with.
So in theory even if it doens't exist until it's used.. it's still within the 1 round you use it in.
or am I wrong?
I would assume that the debate would mirror that for Rays. From what I've seen on these boards, there is a split over whether the weapon has to exist at the time you activate Arcane Strike, or if Arcane Strike enhances any weapon that you use during that round.
Seems like a pretty important distinction for this class, I couldn't see them putting off an official answere for this question.
(well I could see them putting it off till morning anyway, everyone with that authority is probably asleep right now)
Bumping to see if anyone's seen an official rulling since I posted this.
Designer
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For the purposes of the playtest, you can't use Arcane Strike with a mystic bolt. It counts as a weapon only for the purposes of Weapon Focus (mystic bolt) and works like a weapon in the basic ways it needs to to work with attack routines (you can use it with a full attack and can two-weapon fight with it and another weapon). Most other feats and abilities that work with weapons or give bonuses to weapon attacks (including Rapid Shot) can't affect mystic bolts. Basically, only if something would apply to a ray does it apply to a mystic bolt (including Improved Critical, etc.).
Thank you very much!
Yes, thank you! I have to say that the way Mystic Bolt lends itself to TWF is becoming my favorite aspect of the Vigilante class.
For the purposes of the playtest, you can't use Arcane Strike with a mystic bolt. It counts as a weapon only for the purposes of Weapon Focus (mystic bolt) and works like a weapon in the basic ways it needs to to work with attack routines (you can use it with a full attack and can two-weapon fight with it and another weapon). Most other feats and abilities that work with weapons or give bonuses to weapon attacks (including Rapid Shot) can't affect mystic bolts. Basically, only if something would apply to a ray does it apply to a mystic bolt (including Improved Critical, etc.).
So does this mean that almost every ranged feat doesn't work? Point blank shot, precise shot, ect all require a weapon like rapid shot does. I'm missing when it's a weapon and when it's not a weapon. Is there a place where feats that count a ray as a weapon listed?
For the purposes of the playtest, you can't use Arcane Strike with a mystic bolt. It counts as a weapon only for the purposes of Weapon Focus (mystic bolt) and works like a weapon in the basic ways it needs to to work with attack routines (you can use it with a full attack and can two-weapon fight with it and another weapon). Most other feats and abilities that work with weapons or give bonuses to weapon attacks (including Rapid Shot) can't affect mystic bolts. Basically, only if something would apply to a ray does it apply to a mystic bolt (including Improved Critical, etc.).So does this mean that almost every ranged feat doesn't work? Point blank shot, precise shot, ect all require a weapon like rapid shot does. I'm missing when it's a weapon and when it's not a weapon. Is there a place where feats that count a ray as a weapon listed?
As far as I'm aware there's nothing about rays other than they are weapons that you can weapon focus in. I don't think anything else really has been said about it.
There is this FAQ.
Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
That FAQ refers to this FAQ.
Weapon Specialization: Can you take Weapon Specialization (ray) or Improved Critical (ray) as feats? How about Weapon Specialization (bomb) or Improved Critical (bomb)?
All four of those are valid choices.
Note that Weapon Specialization (ray) only adds to hit point damage caused by a ray attack that would normally deal hit point damage; it doesn't increase ability score damage or drain (such as the Dexterity drain from polar ray), penalties to ability scores (such as from ray of enfeeblement) or drain, negative levels (such as from enervation), or other damage or penalties from rays.
So at the very least you can take Weapon Focus (Mystic Bolt), Weapon Specialization (Mystic Bolt), and Improved Critical (Mystic Bolt). (Although a Warlock wouldn't be able to qualify for Weapon Specialization without levels in another class.)
SO we have a list of feats that work with rays and NO feats listed as not working for rays. Looks to me like rapid shot, point blank shot and precise shot should work then unless someone has a rule I don't know of.
Well Rays are ranged attacks, so I've always thought that feats like Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot worked with them (although the +1 dam from PBS would only apply to Rays that cause hit point damage).
Rapid Shot wouldn't work with Rays, of course, if for no other reason that Rapid Shot requires a full-attack action. You can make a full-attack action using Mystic Bolts, but we have been told that, at least for the playtest, Rapid Shot won't work.
I would love to have a full list of the feats that will work with Rays. It might make a good FAQ candidate.
Well Rays are ranged attacks, so I've always thought that feats like Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot worked with them (although the +1 dam from PBS would only apply to Rays that cause hit point damage).
Rapid Shot wouldn't work with Rays, of course, if for no other reason that Rapid Shot requires a full-attack action. You can make a full-attack action using Mystic Bolts, but we have been told that, at least for the playtest, Rapid Shot won't work.
I would love to have a full list of the feats that will work with Rays. It might make a good FAQ candidate.
Agreed. I see nothing to differentiate Rapid shot from Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot from the perspective of being able to use them with a ray. Inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls but Arcane Strike doesn't work with a mystic bolt.
If we're going with "if it works with rays, it'll work with Mystic Bolts", we're REALLY going to need to know what works with rays...
For the purposes of the playtest, you can't use Arcane Strike with a mystic bolt. It counts as a weapon only for the purposes of Weapon Focus (mystic bolt) and works like a weapon in the basic ways it needs to to work with attack routines (you can use it with a full attack and can two-weapon fight with it and another weapon). Most other feats and abilities that work with weapons or give bonuses to weapon attacks (including Rapid Shot) can't affect mystic bolts. Basically, only if something would apply to a ray does it apply to a mystic bolt (including Improved Critical, etc.).
I'm not sure I understand - why wouldn't Rapid Shot work? The language of the feat doesn't necessitate a weapon, just a full attack (which the bolt is capable of.
I'm really digging some of the concepts in Warlock, especially the mystic bolt - just hoping for some clarification.
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It doesn't need an enhancement bonus though, it's already accurate enough as a touch attack. What it does need is a way to reliably increase its damage. Arcane strike would do that but it's not allowed due to design fiat. Rapid shot or TWF would allow that but not allowed due to design fiat. Haste should work but it looks like it wouldn't based on intent. Ninja 2 spending a ki point should work too. Point blank shot should work, but I fear it doesn't based on intent.
Weapon specialization would work, but it doesn't make since to give up +4 damage from vigilante levels for +2 from a feat.
You could also use vital strike, but as the majority of the damage is from your static level bonus, not the d6, it reduces your damage output.
The only thing I can think of that would work without question is using a pair of deliquescent gloves with melee mystic bolts to add an additional 1d6 acid. Combine with an intimidate build for hurtful for an additional swift action attack.
Winter Witches Frozen Caress might work. [depends if an ability what works on a spell works on a SLA] At worst, you can use it with chill touch so you could do d6 [chill touch] + 1d4 cold [Frozen Caress] + 1d6+level cold [mystic bolt] + (maybe) 1d6 cold [Frost Fist Amulet] + 1 str damage.
That's 1d6 + (1d4+2d6+level cold) damage and 1 str for only a 1st level spell. (and a level of winter witch)
And if hitting is an issue, there's always a Wizards Hook.
Winter Witches Frozen Caress might work. [depends if an ability what works on a spell works on a SLA] At worst, you can use it with chill touch so you could do d6 [chill touch] + 1d4 cold [Frozen Caress] + 1d6+level cold [mystic bolt] + (maybe) 1d6 cold [Frost Fist Amulet] + 1 str damage.
That's 1d6 + (1d4+2d6+level cold) damage and 1 str for only a 1st level spell. (and a level of winter witch)
And if hitting is an issue, there's always a Wizards Hook.
That's an impressive combination, but I'm not 100% how well all of those would work together (I'm a little wary of a frost fist amulet, which is turning your hands into clubs, working with somatic spell casting)
Are we sure that it wouldn't discharge an existing held touch attack spell (like Chill Touch)? Is there a ruling that a SLA doesn't count as a spell for discharging a held touch?
Winter Witches Frozen Caress might work. [depends if an ability what works on a spell works on a SLA] At worst, you can use it with chill touch so you could do d6 [chill touch] + 1d4 cold [Frozen Caress] + 1d6+level cold [mystic bolt] + (maybe) 1d6 cold [Frost Fist Amulet] + 1 str damage.
That's 1d6 + (1d4+2d6+level cold) damage and 1 str for only a 1st level spell. (and a level of winter witch)
And if hitting is an issue, there's always a Wizards Hook.
That's an impressive combination, but I'm not 100% how well all of those would work together (I'm a little wary of a frost fist amulet, which is turning your hands into clubs, working with somatic spell casting)
Are we sure that it wouldn't discharge an existing held touch attack spell (like Chill Touch)? Is there a ruling that a SLA doesn't count as a spell for discharging a held touch?
Given the amount of spells available I see the warlock as mostly casting pre-combat buffs so no somatic spell casting shouldn't be an issue.
As to discharge, "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges." A mystic Bolt isn't an object, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Winter Witches Frozen Caress might work. [depends if an ability what works on a spell works on a SLA] At worst, you can use it with chill touch so you could do d6 [chill touch] + 1d4 cold [Frozen Caress] + 1d6+level cold [mystic bolt] + (maybe) 1d6 cold [Frost Fist Amulet] + 1 str damage.
That's 1d6 + (1d4+2d6+level cold) damage and 1 str for only a 1st level spell. (and a level of winter witch)
And if hitting is an issue, there's always a Wizards Hook.
That's an impressive combination, but I'm not 100% how well all of those would work together (I'm a little wary of a frost fist amulet, which is turning your hands into clubs, working with somatic spell casting)
Are we sure that it wouldn't discharge an existing held touch attack spell (like Chill Touch)? Is there a ruling that a SLA doesn't count as a spell for discharging a held touch?
Given the amount of spells available I see the warlock as mostly casting pre-combat buffs so no somatic spell casting shouldn't be an issue.
As to discharge, "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges." A mystic Bolt isn't an object, so it shouldn't be an issue.
It's not about holding/touching anything, but rather the fact that casting a second spell discharges the first held spell. Since a Spell-Like Ability functions (in most ways) like a spell, would activating the bolt count as a 'second spell' that discharges the initial chill touch?
It's not about holding/touching anything, but rather the fact that casting a second spell discharges the first held spell. Since a Spell-Like Ability functions (in most ways) like a spell, would activating the bolt count as a 'second spell' that discharges the initial chill touch?Winter Witches Frozen Caress might work. [depends if an ability what works on a spell works on a SLA] At worst, you can use it with chill touch so you could do d6 [chill touch] + 1d4 cold [Frozen Caress] + 1d6+level cold [mystic bolt] + (maybe) 1d6 cold [Frost Fist Amulet] + 1 str damage.
That's 1d6 + (1d4+2d6+level cold) damage and 1 str for only a 1st level spell. (and a level of winter witch)
And if hitting is an issue, there's always a Wizards Hook.
That's an impressive combination, but I'm not 100% how well all of those would work together (I'm a little wary of a frost fist amulet, which is turning your hands into clubs, working with somatic spell casting)
Are we sure that it wouldn't discharge an existing held touch attack spell (like Chill Touch)? Is there a ruling that a SLA doesn't count as a spell for discharging a held touch?
Given the amount of spells available I see the warlock as mostly casting pre-combat buffs so no somatic spell casting shouldn't be an issue.
As to discharge, "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges." A mystic Bolt isn't an object, so it shouldn't be an issue.
*shrug* I would say no but it is a grey area. I'm basing it on the FAQ where they reversed the stance of SLA counting as spells. Since they don't count as spells or spell casting for benefits and prerequisites why should I count them as such for penalties?
Going by the rules, SLA are like spells in the following ways. Dispels, Spell resistance, Antimagic fields, Attack of opportunity. That's it. Discharging held spells isn't on the list.
See Use Special Ability in How Combat Works and Glossary plus Table: Special Ability Types in PRD.
So if a gm was building a lich vigilante could they stack lich touch on that too
For that matter what about a vigilante 4 souleater 2 gravewalker 10 who became a lich. Could they do mystic touch + souleater touch + lich touch + touch spell?
So if a gm was building a lich vigilante could they stack lich touch on that too
For that matter what about a vigilante 4 souleater 2 gravewalker 10 who became a lich. Could they do mystic touch + souleater touch + lich touch + touch spell?
You're missing your action economy.
Soul Eater's energy drain is a standard action and doesn't have a charge so it MUST use the standard action that round.Paralyzing Touch from the lich always happens on a touch, so no problem there.
Mystic bolt = attack.
So standard (Mystic bolt OR energy drain) + Paralyzing Touch + charges from previously cast touch spell.
OR full attack (Mystic Bolt) + Paralyzing Touch + charges from previously cast touch spell.
Clearly, adding soul eater is a downgrade and reduces number of attack, total damage and chances of paralyzed for a single chance at energy drain. May be an option on a move and attack but that's it and you get no mystic bolt damage.