Unchained Rogue Talents from Other Classes?


Pathfinder Society

Grand Lodge

Sorry if this has already come up before but I didn't see it anywhere.

In Society rules if a class like Investigator, Slayer, or Ninja has the option to choose a Rogue talent are they obligated to choose the original version of the talent, the unchained version of the talent or can they choose either one?

Also if they choose one type or the other does that mean the character has limited its future options to one type or the other?

Thank you in advance.

Grand Lodge

I feel I should mention this isn't about one version or another being a better choice. It is simply a rules limitation question regarding PFS.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I skimmed through the comments section of the Unchained Blog and couldn't find a post by Mike or John, but towards the end there was this:

Chess Pwn wrote:
LazarX wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Are non-Unchained Barbarians, allowed to take Unchained Rage Powers?
No... they are class features of the Un-Chained Barbarian, not the standard model.
As my understanding, nothing from unchained is touching anything outside of unchained. No new rage on your bloodrager or skald. No new rage powers on skalds. No new rogue talents on alchemists, ninjas, or bards. No new flurry for Sacred fist warpriest.

Grand Lodge

Thanks Nefreet,

I guess that means Unchained Rogues cannot used any rogue talents from other sources not listed in the sidebar either then.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

That was answered for sure, and they cannot.

Another question that went unanswered was which talents a multiclass Investigator/Unchained Rogue could access.

Sczarni 2/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

One thing I noticed while playing the special at PaizoCon was that one of the pre-gens was specifically designated as having the Unchained Rogue class, rather than just being a Rogue. This leads me to think that the class itself will be known as Unchained Rogue or Unchained Summoner to make it clear which one is which.

If that is the case, I'd say that if the class granting you an ability is an Unchained Class, then you get to choose Unchained abilities and must follow Unchained restrictions. If the class granting you an ability is not an Unchained Class, then you do not gain access to Unchained abilities or have to follow any Unchained restrictions.

What makes sense to me is that your Investigator level gives you regular rogue talents, and your special Unchained Rogue levels give you unchained rogue talents.

That being said, I'd also appreciate clarification about the full implementation of Unchained in PFS in these not-totally-corner cases.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Arkos wrote:
What makes sense to me is that your Investigator level gives you regular rogue talents, and your special Unchained Rogue levels give you unchained rogue talents.

And if such a character took the "Extra Talent" feat?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

They would get their choice of an Unchained talent or a regular one - the Unchained one would use their URogue level for level-dependent variables, and the regular one would use their Investigator level for level-dependent variables.

I don't understand what the confusion is here?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:
Arkos wrote:
What makes sense to me is that your Investigator level gives you regular rogue talents, and your special Unchained Rogue levels give you unchained rogue talents.
And if such a character took the "Extra Talent" feat?

You'd be able to take it as either class if you met the requirements on both?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

And if you retrained one of those classes away?

As it is now, you can't retrain a feat if it's a prerequisite for another feat, but there's nothing that covers retraining away your class.

Say an Investigator-10/Unchained Rogue-1 has acquired Unchained Talents via Extra Talent, and then retrains away the level of Rogue.

The remaining Investigator still meets the prerequisites of Extra Talent.

Sczarni 2/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Nefreet wrote:
Arkos wrote:
What makes sense to me is that your Investigator level gives you regular rogue talents, and your special Unchained Rogue levels give you unchained rogue talents.
And if such a character took the "Extra Talent" feat?

What if they took Extra Talent at the same time that they gained a level in Unchained Rogue, so they decided to take an Unchained talent. Later, they took a level in Investigator, and decided to retrain their Extra Talent feat to gain a a different Extra Talent. Which list do they use then?

If I take Unchained Rogue Talent: Minor Magic, and then as an Investigator gain a normal Rogue Talent, am I allowed to take the regular Rogue Talent: Major Magic? Do I gain access to the Unchained Talent in a regular class? Do I have to take the regular Rogue Talent: Minor Magic and just become a cantrip master?

This game is fun, but if we get in trouble, Nefreet started it.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

It's always us Tengu, isn't it?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

And if you retrained one of those classes away?

As it is now, you can't retrain a feat if it's a prerequisite for another feat, but there's nothing that covers retraining away your class.

Say an Investigator-10/Unchained Rogue-1 has acquired Unchained Talents via Extra Talent, and then retrains away the level of Rogue.

The remaining Investigator still meets the prerequisites of Extra Talent.

The same thing that would happen if you took Expanded Arcana as a 9th level sorcerer to get a pair of 3rd level spells but then retrained 5 levels of sorcerer into anything else. You still qualify for the feat, but your choices are no longer valid. (My guess is that the feat shuts off, but I'm not 100% - but this isn't a new concept.)

Re: Minor Magic twice: Sure, regular rogue talents and unchained rogue talents are two different things. In your specific example, then even do something different!

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:

And if you retrained one of those classes away?

As it is now, you can't retrain a feat if it's a prerequisite for another feat, but there's nothing that covers retraining away your class.

Say an Investigator-10/Unchained Rogue-1 has acquired Unchained Talents via Extra Talent, and then retrains away the level of Rogue.

The remaining Investigator still meets the prerequisites of Extra Talent.

I believe the trend is that you can't retrain away a prerequisite

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Does unchained sneak attack stack with chained sneak attack? What if the enemy has concealment?

Grand Lodge

Ascalaphus wrote:
Does unchained sneak attack stack with chained sneak attack? What if the enemy has concealment?

I think the unchained sneak attack dice get through and your standard dice do not. Of course neither type works against total concealment.

I've been proven wrong though, many many times.

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