Pummeling Style

[Alric Rahl]

Alright so this is a thread not to be discussed but for those looking for an honest unbiased opinion on Pummeling style and how it should be used.

First off Pummeling style as written:

"Benefit: As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit. You can only use Pummeling Style with unarmed strikes (see errata at right)."

Now most people use this style in conjunction with Dragon Style. Dragon Style allows you to get 1-1/2 times strength bonus on your damage with your FIRST attack. And the big debate is that because Pummeling style is technically 1 punch you should get that on all the damage.

However let's take a look at one sentence in Pummeling Styles description

Where it says "For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal damage" what should be at the end of that should say "for that hit" as you still roll your normal full attack attack rolls. What this means is that any normal modifiers you have for damage for that hit are added only on that hit.

This means that a monk with let's say 4 attacks in a Flurry of Blows with a +4 Str mod plus Pummeling style and Dragon style. His full attacks would look like:

+10/+10/+5/+5

The damage for each would be

1d10+6, 1d10+4, 1d10+4, 1d10+4.

This means that the above is what should be rolled when you use Pummeling style.

[Byakko]

This is the rules forum, which is for discussing rules... especially ones that are ambiguous. While your line of argument seems reasonable, I could easily see someone arguing the other way. In other words, there are probably multiple opinions on this, so it'd be better to start such a thread with a post in the form of a question so that it could eventually be turned into a FAQ if needed.

[Nefreet]

You can't have two styles active at the same time anyways, unless you're utilizing the Monk archetype that trades out Flurry of Blows.

Flagged for the General Discussion forum.

[Alric Rahl]

Unless of course you take sacred fist war priest after you take the level of master of many styles. But it doesn't matter same thing can be said for full attacks. And there is no way this is gonna be FAQd as its been debated since it came out. Paizo still intends most of its rules to be interpreted and sorted out by the players. If paizo stepped in now to confirm or deny the true use of the feat then people would just b#!@* about how their way of interpreting it is not te way that was ruled upon by paizo. Better to let us debate it this way and leave it up to the gm to tell his players how it works.

And I'm sure you could argue it that it works a different way but the fact is that with those 3 other words added to that one sentence it makes it much more clear how this was intended to be used. It also says that you roll your attacks like a full attack. This also means that you roll the attack and damage with the normal modifiers that are associated with that specific attack. There is no grey area anymore on this feat. Even a cursory glance at this feat reveals that it's basically Clustered Shot but for melee.

The only people that try to argue are the ones that can see a major damage dealing combo IF it works the way they want it too, so they try to argue that it does. But unfortunately it's quite clear that it doesn't.

[kestral287]

"It's quite clear", made as a statement right after "with those three words added" pretty much says that no, it's not clear.

And ending on an ad hominem is usually a pretty clear indication that you don't actually care to have a real debate.

[Byakko]

Sigh, alright, let's play:

Quote:

Benefit: As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit. You can only use Pummeling Style with unarmed strikes (see errata at right).

As can be seen clearly from the bolding, using pummeling style clearly results in a single attack. If more than one attack were being made, the plural form "attacks" would have been used.

The middle section simply describes how you calculate the damage for this attack and has no bearing on how many strikes are actually made.

Further, consider a foe with Mirror Image up. If the Pummeling Style attack hits, how many images would you expect to pop? It seems quite clear to me that only a single image would be destroyed because there is only a single strike.

As this is only a single attack, it is also quite clear that it is also the first strike, and thus would benefit from Dragon Style, resulting in applying Strength and a half damage instead of Strength damage wherever applicable.

--------------------

Anyway, I naturally don't fully support the above argument, and I already know of a few counter arguments that could be made to it.

My point is that it's not clear, and thus stating that your opinion on it is correct and that no replies to this thread are needed.... yeah, not so much.

=^.^=

[Doc Green]

Not to go off track but did they ever figure out what happens if you crit twice during a pummel?

[kestral287]

Doc Green wrote:

Not to go off track but did they ever figure out what happens if you crit twice during a pummel?

Then the whole attack crits. Simple as that.

[Doc Green]

Yes but if i crit twice is that second crit a waste.

[kestral287]

Aye. But that's how Pummeling Style works. In exchange for 'wasting' that second crit, you crit with every hit you make. Seems like you're still massively advantaged to me.

I mean... personally, I'd rather have 10, 10, 10, 10 than 10, 5, 10, 5.