Higher level magus suggestions

[_synergy_]

Hi everyone I've been playing a standard dervish dance bladebound kensai magus (yes yes overdone I know). I've read guides on it and have gotten some of the standard stuff (magical lineage shocking grasp, dervish dance etc.) We just hit level 10 and I was thinking the damage dice from shocking grasp is probably less effective at higher levels due to monsters having higher HP? (10d6 is only 35 damage on average). I know I can boost it with stuff like maximize magic but I'm a little reluctant on more metamagic feats as I already have diminished spell casting. So I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on anything to get for the higher levels to keep things interesting? (could be feats, items, arcana or other play style changes) I can provide stats and current feats if needed but it's just been the standard dervish dance stuff so far. Thanks!

[BadBird]

At higher levels Frostbite is pretty powerful for full attacks. If Shocking Grasp is ~35 at 10, Frostbite is ~13.5 per attack at 10. If you have 2 normal attacks plus haste plus spell combat, 4x13.5 = 54 nonlethal. It also causes fatigue and can be turned into Rime Frostbite to entangle. Since Pearls of Power technically work by spell level, you recharge a Rime Frostbite with a level 1 Pearl - though some people don't care for that.

Dimensional Dervish is about the coolest thing ever. Hasted teleporting spell combat full attack is ... I dunno.

[_synergy_]

BadBird wrote:

At higher levels Frostbite is pretty powerful for full attacks. If Shocking Grasp is ~35 at 10, Frostbite is ~13.5 per attack at 10. If you have 2 normal attacks plus haste plus spell combat, 4x13.5 = 54 nonlethal. It also causes fatigue and can be turned into Rime Frostbite to entangle. Since Pearls of Power technically work by spell level, you recharge a Rime Frostbite with a level 1 Pearl - though some people don't care for that.

Dimensional Dervish is about the coolest thing ever. Hasted teleporting spell combat full attack is ... I dunno.

Hmm but I already got magical lineage for shocking grasp. So rime would make frostbite a level 2 spell which would make it a little more costly to cast right?

Dimensional dervish does look cool though! Thanks!

[BadBird]

_synergy_ wrote:

Hmm but I already got magical lineage for shocking grasp. So rime would make frostbite a level 2 spell which would make it a little more costly to cast right?

It's a level 2 spell slot to prepare with Rime, but according to the rules of metamagic it's still a level 1 spell. Because it's a level 1 spell, a level 1 Pearl of Power is enough to restore it. This means that if you keep a few 1000gp pearls around it's not really draining at all... mind you, some people get upset and/or call that an exploit of how the rules go. Anyways it's still a great spell without Rime.

[_synergy_]

BadBird wrote:

_synergy_ wrote:

Hmm but I already got magical lineage for shocking grasp. So rime would make frostbite a level 2 spell which would make it a little more costly to cast right?

It's a level 2 spell slot to prepare with Rime, but according to the rules of metamagic it's still a level 1 spell. Because it's a level 1 spell, a level 1 Pearl of Power is enough to restore it. This means that if you keep a few 1000gp pearls around it's not really draining at all... mind you, some people get upset and/or call that an exploit of how the rules go. Anyways it's still a great spell without Rime.

Ohh you're right. I don't know why that didn't occur to me before. Yeah I'm definitely looking into some other utility than just shocking grasp all day haha. Thanks!

[Paulicus]

There's an FAQ about spell levels and metamagic. In general, you use the spell level that is least favorable to the caster. You can't use a lesser quicken rod on a prepared maximized magic missile because it's a 4th level spell, for example.

Fits the flavor, too.

On topic, I don't think there are actually a lot of options for purely offensive magus touch spells, so you'd be better off with metamagic if you can afford it. The "Close Range" arcana does give you some interesting options though.

You could also go for debuffs instead. I have a hexcrafter (you could use arcana to grab some wizard spells you want) that likes to use Bestow Curse.

[kestral287]

Spell Blending can do a lot to broaden your abilities if you're worried about Grasp falling off. There are some decent touch spells within reach and some really good general spells.

I'd also recommend a Spell Storing weapon, if you don't have one. Think of it as a free Quicken for your offensive spells.

As far as metamagic goes, if you want to get nasty (and your game will go that far), setting up for Spell Perfection (Shocking Grasp) at level 15 can be worthwhile. An Intensified Maximized Shocking Grasp is still a level 1 spell with Spell Perfection + Magical Lineage, and is a flat 60 damage. You'd need to take another metamagic feat to qualify for Spell Perfection (assuming your only one right now is Intensify), which could be Rime Spell to combine with the Frostbite setup or Empower Spell for more nastiness.

For exceptional nastiness, combining the two above plans, after Spell Perfection and Magical Lineage an Intensified Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp is a third level spell for 60+5D6... and thus it qualifies to go in your Spell Storing weapon.

The moral of the story is that Shocking Grasp only falls off in raw damage as much as you let it. The bigger issue is the possible presence of Resistance or Immunity to electricity, which will require you to switch tactics. Their next best touch spell, if you're not a Frostbite Fan (I admit I'm not; nonlethal makes it too easy to get around) is Frigid Touch, which has an auto-stagger and is thus obnoxiously good at high levels (and can be Rimed, should you so desire). You should also have some awesome support spells by now, like Fly and Haste, and 4th level is when the Magus starts to come into some of their really nice crowd-control options. In situations where Shocking Grasp isn't your best option, you should be breaking out your spellbook for alternatives.

I don't like the Dimensional Dervish line just because there's a lot of feat taxing involved. Thanks to Spell Combat, Dimensional Assault is totally wasted and Dimensional Dervish itself can be imitated, though taking the feat gives you an advantage in the free pseudo-Quicken. I just have a hard time using that to justify the full line since the Magus has so many options for swift actions. I'd honestly take a hard look at taking Dimensional Agility and dropping the rest of the line. Going clear to Savant is certainly an option, but I'm not sure it's the best one.