Ok, I know Monks have a bad reputation. Still, I want to try the class out myself so hopefully we can keep the 'monks are bad' and the 'play X instead' comments to a minimum, eh?
Level is 13, 25 point build, and starting gold is 150,000. I was thinking of running a human as feats are good. All of pathfinder (and likely most of 3.5) are on the table. DM has hinted there will be a number of demons in the game, for what it is worth. I am looking at mostly doing melee and not big on range.
I'm debating two archtypes at the moment: Master of many styles and Qinggong. It really comes down to how useful flurry of blows will really be.
Idea 1 is using fast movement to get up close, use Stunning fist to inflict staggered (which lasts several rounds, minimum of two) and flurry of blows with Medusa's wrath + ki point to beat an enemy into submission.
Idea 2 is with master of many styles. Give up flurry of blows, and take two styles. I'm liking Dragon Style and Snake Style (gives a nice reptile theme) as Dragon Style adds more STR damage, and Snake Style gives several nice benefits, including getting an attack of opportunity when an opponent misses me. My STR and AC are both look to be high, so in theory I could dodge quite a bit of blows, and strike back with increased power often.
I'd really love to blend the two styles together, but losing flurry of blows is just painful. At least, it feels that way. From what I read, most downplay Flurry of blows because you can't move and use it.
For those who don't hate monks, what do you feel is the better approach? What's worked for you? Ideas welcome!
Well, we had excellent luck with the Zen archer.
The Qinggong monk really works well. Take a few things to boost your ki.
25 pts should give you a decent monk.
Who else is in the party? The Sensei (for example) can replace a Bard on some levels.
|
I like how after you pointed out not being interested much in ranged combat the very first response on the very first line brought it up. I love the paizo boards.
Anyway, stunning fist will dissipoint you unless you plan on having both a high wisdom and mantis style. The DC is simply too low to realistically expect to wee it in action otherwise. This is much more stark when you are trying it on demons who have high fortitude saves. I know from experience playing a monk who is built to abuse stunning fist. You do not need flurry. It is nice but you will have 2-3 attacks a round anyway. There is a lot you can do with just a single well designed strike. If you don't believe me, look at the magus or battle clerics, etc.
Qingongg isn't a 'choice between' archetype. It stacks with all of them and only costs you monk abilities that you do not want. Take it. Always.
If you like styles you can take more than one and grab combat style master. You need two styles to take it anyway and can free action switch between them and begin combat in one automatically. If you select the right style combinations you can use one or both on your turn or one on your turn and switch to the other when it is not your turn. It's not as good as having multiple styles in play simultaneously but it is close.
You should decide if you are building around the monks natural defense or if you are going to try and deal large damage, control, etc. Monks can be good at many things but they need to focus.
The rest of the party threw me for a loop... I went for a melee class as most people were supposedly playing casters. Instead, we ended up with a fighter, a sword saint samurai, a fighter/cleric, my monk, and a sorcerer. Logically we could use more magic, but I've been working on the monk's back story a while now, and don't want to change.
And yes, as noted I have heard positive things of the Zen archer, but I am looking to avoid range. I just can't picture monks and range working in my mind.
With the 15 point buy and some stat boosting equipment, I can manage some good stats, thinking an 18 WIS. That would be a DC 20 to resist, I think (10 + half of 13 is 6, and 4 WIS). That is lower than I would have thought. A fighter/barbarian with a decent cloak of resistance would be nearly immune... that is a serious flaw in the battle plan. And if I can't rely on stunning fist, Medusa's wrath becomes useless. That is troubling.
Attack, defense, or control, eh? Dare I ask what you suggest, Dark Immortal? I'd like to do some damage as it's more what was I aiming for with her back story, but I'm not opposed to control if that works well. I did consider grappling (Tetori archtype, I think?) but thought it was TOO specialized, if that makes sense.
Oh man, you're level 13. That's perfect. Play a Monk of the Four Winds. You can Vital Strike three times in a round by abusing Slow Time.
My own build is a Sensei/Four Winds/Drunken Master/Qinggong. With that, one level in Lunar Oracle makes you dependent entirely on Wisdom and Charisma. It's beautiful. Ask your GM if you can get the Guided enchantment (Wis to hit/damage) on your Amulet and go to town. If s/he says no then Sensei provides Wis to hit so you're only somewhat dependent on strength; your damage should still be good with all the dice you'll be tossing. Your teammates will love you for the Inspire Courage boost, too.
|
|
If you want control and don't want to be stuck doing one thing, the maneuver master will give you plenty of maneuvers to play with and a flurry. You'll need a good str score so dragon style isn't a bad choice here due to synergy. Contrary to popular belief, maneuver master doesn't have to be a dip class. You can keep going with it and it works quite well. Just remember that maneuvers require a lot of investment and have trouble working at the higher levels but if you -really- want to disarm and trip, you can do so reliably at all levels of play against all but the most ridiculous of foes. But you have to really make sacrifices to be that good, monk or not.
Maneuvers also can allow you or your party additional attacks which can negate the need for or compensate for the lack of flurry of blows.
Control monks usually require a level or so in a spellcasting class to get access to the various control spells and then take feats like domain strike and/or conductive amulets to let them apply those spells on unarmed strikes. I have a sensei tank/controller who does exactly this. He uses scorpion style, stunning fist, the enforcer feat and his domain powers to make enemies have very bad days. Or at least to try to. You will find that at higher levels of play enemies have so many varied abilities that whatever you specialize in can be rendered pretty useless. Good at making enemies staggered and useless? Awesome-well as a standard action these Kytons can control chains and get four attacks a round. *sigh*
You can also turn those same control pieces into damage options with enough caster levels or if you take elemental fist and grab the elemental style you prefer (they add wisdom to the damage of the attack on top of the elemental dice). This is a great option at your level because they are mostly only available then and you can qualify with dragon ferocity and not be a monk of the four winds.
Honestly, if you just want damage a high str and dragon style will cover you. Everything else is just optional. If you want to squeeze damage out of all sorts of places and have multiple things going on, you'll want a theme or two besides just damage. I tend to lean towards combat maneuvers but the elemental attacks are what I am most curious about trying if I make another monk someday.
Well, since I always have my own agenda, I am going to try pushing the Sohei archetype.
This archetype has 2 main features that make it attractive: weapon training, and the fact that it can flurry in light armor.
Weapon training if fairly obvious in how it improves the character. At level 13, you will have a +2 to a weapon group. While many people take the archetype so they can flurry with spears or bows, monk weapons are still an option, and thus you can boost your unarmed strike (you still have another group that you can grab though; polearms for reach or bows for ranged are always nice side options...). And since it both calls itself 'weapon training', and it says that it is 'as the fighter class feature', then you qualify for Gloves of Dueling, which brings up your weapon training bonus to a total +4 to attack and damage. And this also applies to CMB on maneuvers that you can do with unarmed strikes (so things like sunder, disarm, and trip).
The ability to flurry in armor, while it seems extremely useful, is not useful for defense as you would expect. A well built monk (particularly on a 25 point buy with your cash) can have an excellent AC that matches that advantage. No, armor is useful because it helps your magic item slots. Firstly, it means that you do not need bracers of armor (freeing up your hands for gloves of dueling. Secondly, armor is an item slot in itself, and it means you can grab the Brawling Armor Property, which is a property for light armors that adds an untyped +2 to attack and damage.
Overall, this build would allow you to get a total +6 bonus on attack and damage rolls with unarmed strikes, all of which would be impossible to see for a normal monk (well, MoMS might be able to grab armor+brawling).
The only real problem I find with it is that it trades away Stunning fist (which means you lose the prerequisite for Dragon Ferocity, or 'the feat that adds 1/2 str in damage on each hit'). Although....you are level 13. With 3/4 BAB, you qualify for stunning fist normally at level 11, and thus you could take dragon ferocity at level 13. So even the sweetness of the dragon style line is not beyond your reach.