Looking for Ideas for a First Worlder Summoner


Advice


Can anyone suggest ideas for a First Worlder Summoner character? Thinking of having one as an NPC, and I have no experience playing summoners.

Shadow Lodge

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This thread has lots of ideas in it.

Make sure you're aware that this archetype suffers because the Summon Monster SLA is not as strong as it is in the main Summoner class: shorter duration, 1 round casting time.

You get some great options in exchange for the nerf though.


Thanks Tomos!


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Having an Eidolon with crap hit dice and BAB.

#FirstWorlderProblems

Liberty's Edge

ChainsawSam wrote:

Having an Eidolon with crap hit dice and BAB.

#FirstWorlderProblems

As a future summoner, I'm loling so hard.


ChainsawSam wrote:

Having an Eidolon with crap hit dice and BAB.

#FirstWorlderProblems

Yes, someone else who truly GETS that joke.

Anyway, yeah, from the perspective of 'normal' summoner builds, it seems like a straight downgrade, since they rely so much on eidolons. And it certainly lacks the overpowering ability of the master summoner with multiple standard action summons.

But being able to completely shut down an entire battlefield with a low level summon? That is priceless. Pugwampis are a fantastic option since they are basically an Area of Effect, no save Misfortune hex. That you could summon 1d4+1 of with the right build.

The summoner itself can serve well as a caster with pugwampi support. Their spell list still has some of the regular battlefield control mainstays, and even the low level spells suddenly becomes more threatening when you suck at saves (grease, create pit, and glitterdust are fine examples of what you could use).

And interestingly, as an NPC, you could also throw in some of the low level monsters with 'pathetic' DC's along with the First Worlder and have them present real threat to the party. Remember all those creatures with Poison DC's at around 14? I wonder how many of those we can throw in while staying at APL? A dozen or two? I wonder how long it will take before they start rolling near 1's and just failing those saves.

And if you actually got serious, and tried doing things like summoning T-rexes with their high grapple checks and 'meh' AC for the inside of their gullets? Could you say that you could reliably avoid getting swallowed and missing your stabs to get out when you have to roll twice and take the worse result?


I lol'd at ChainsawSam's comment. I'm going to start running the Emerald Spire tomorrow, and I'm thinking of having a few NPCs ready for use as PCs (a few players might bring friends occasionally). I'm thinking of having a Samsaran First Worlder Summoner with mystic past life and a few druid spells as one of the NPCs, with a heavy anime style.

[edit post] The First Worlder works reasonably well for the anime style, and I'm hoping the weaker eidolon will work as a ranged artillery/support eidolon. I'm hoping this will make the learning curve for summoner a little easier.


Oops, First Worlder Summoners are still arcane spellcasters, so one couldn't take druid spells. They cast summoner nature's ally as an arcane spell. I should not have looked down this dark path.

Shadow Lodge

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ChainsawSam wrote:

Having an Eidolon with crap hit dice and BAB.

#FirstWorlderProblems

LOL

Perfect opportunity to make a skilldolon!
It's true that the First Worlder's Eidolon can't do much fighting, but it can definitely UMD all over the place, from low levels with ease. Give it a wand of Ill Omen and watch the fun!

Don't forget that if you summon Pugwampis that the GM should avoid metagaming them. Just like PCs, bad guys need to identify the threat before they reasonably change tactics.
An enemy isn't going to stop paying attention to the size-large Barbarian in their face to attack some little dog creatures for no reason. They need to know what a Pugwampi is and know that it has an aura of unluck to identify it as a threat. Otherwise, it's just a silly little dog-thing. How many bad guys have ranks in Knowledge: Nature? Not many I'd wager.

If you summon a Dire Bear, then it's reasonable that a bad guy (smart or not) would see it as a threat. Little dog creature that doesn't attack? Not so much.

Make sure your First Worlder knows Undercommon!

Vexgits may be garbage in combat, but they can each cast Rusting Grasp 1/summon. That can be awesome and/or hilarious. 1d4+1 Vexgits can do some serious damage.


Goblins might make a priority of pugwampis because they resemble dogs, otherwise most opponents should ignore them (I would probably allow a DC 16 Int or Wis or Knowledge(nature) check to figure out the likely source).


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Tomos wrote:

Don't forget that if you summon Pugwampis that the GM should avoid metagaming them. Just like PCs, bad guys need to identify the threat before they reasonably change tactics.

An enemy isn't going to stop paying attention to the size-large Barbarian in their face to attack some little dog creatures for no reason. They need to know what a Pugwampi is and know that it has an aura of unluck to identify it as a threat. Otherwise, it's just a silly little dog-thing. How many bad guys have ranks in Knowledge: Nature? Not many I'd wager.

Eh, since you don't get the minutes per level, you have to summon the ugly little things at the start of the fight. So I would imagine that any intelligent foe would get suspicious if you bothered to summon 2-5 nonthreatening little dog people.

But that can actually be an advantage. Again, you are summoning 2-5 of the things, and the best tactic is to have them spread over the whole battlefield. That means that enemies have to actually waste their time chasing the buggers down and attacking them. They have to divide their own forces around the battlefield too. So that means that your party has time to attack and set up spells (Save or Suck Wizards rule in this environment).

You need to think of them less as combatants, but more like nodes to maintain a fantastic debuff spell. In the end, they are all EXTREMELY expendable, and should just spend their time running (can you ready action a withdraw?), taking pot shots with arrows, or doing something useful like flanking or aid another.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Someone once said that First World summoners can have their eidolon out while using their Summon SLA's but I haven't found the text to support it. Can someone point out where I missed that?


LazarX wrote:
Someone once said that First World summoners can have their eidolon out while using their Summon SLA's but I haven't found the text to support it. Can someone point out where I missed that?

Yeah, I was confused about that before.

The best explanation I've found (which you can read RIGHT HERE)is that it replaces the normal summoner SLA, but does not go anywhere near the lengths to add in restrictive language, or even say that it 'otherwise works like the normal summoner SLA'.

So that means it defaults to rather normal summoning SLA rules- full round action, rounds/level, and doesn't care a lick about whether your eidolon is out or not.


An upside to summoning 2-5 small dogs at the start of combat (and having them spread out as nodes) is that opponents who recognize the thread have to decide whether to take a few rounds to eliminate the pugwampis, or focus on the PCs. A no-win scenario for most opponents.

Shadow Lodge

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ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:
Goblins might make a priority of pugwampis because they resemble dogs, otherwise most opponents should ignore them (I would probably allow a DC 16 Int or Wis or Knowledge(nature) check to figure out the likely source).

That is great! I agree that goblins would totally go crazy and attack the small dog creatures.

It would be a DC 16 (10+CR+5) Knowledge: Nature check. The DC for an Int/Wis check for that specific of an ability should be sky-high IMO.

Lemeres is right. The First Worlder's Summon Nature's Ally ability does not contain the "As a result, he can only use this ability when his Eidolon is not summoned" text. You can definitely have both out.

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