Max Gold Out of Tier Clarification


GM Discussion


Still new to this, I only have 4 tables of credit so far and this is the first time Out-of Subtier has affected a player and myself:

GTPSOP pg 35 said wrote:
Step 5: Determine the Max Gold for the scenario based on the PC’s advancement rate and the subtier played. Circle the applicable value (F). If the PC’s level is not within the subtier played (such as a 1st-, 2nd-, or 3rd-level character in Subtier 4–5), circle the Out-of-Subtier gold value or calculate the Out-of-Subtier value for Seasons 0–4 by taking the average of both subtiers and rounding down. Write this value beside area F and circle it. This value represents the total gold piece value a character may receive for defeating all enemies and finding all treasure in a scenario.

Table consists of a Lvl 1, 2, 3, & 1 so APL = 1.75 = Sub-Tier 1-2

Sub-Tier 1-2 session played on a Season 3 Scenario

Level 1, 2 & 1 player gets the Sub-Tier 1-2 Loot and gold
Level 3 player gets the Sub-Tier 1-2 Loot and Out-of-Level gold (which needs to be calculated by taking the average of Sub-Tier 1-2 and Sub-Tier 4-5 because this is a Season 3 Scenario which doesn't list it on the sheet)

GTPSOP pg 37 said wrote:
Should a GM receive a Chronicle sheet that indicates her character is between subtiers (for example, if she runs a Tier 1–5 scenario but gives a 3rd-level character the Chronicle sheet), she must always receive the Out-of-Subtier gold value. This rule is meant to balance the fact that the GM’s character doesn’t have to expend any resources or risk death while gaining a Chronicle sheet for running a scenario.

GM credit applied to a level 3 character gets the Sub-Tier 1-2 Loot and Out-of-Level gold

I'm looking for verification on the Player Level 3 rewards for gold getting the Out-of-Level gold value - since level 3 is not within the subtier played. It stands to reason that the GM's gold and the Level 3 players gold would be identical if they are the same level.

Am I good on this?

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

You are correct.

(When you say "Sub-Tier 1-2 Loot and Out-of-Level gold" I am assuming you mean "out-of-subtier gold and access to the items listed for Subtier 1-2 but not 4-5.")


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Belafon wrote:

You are correct.

(When you say "Sub-Tier 1-2 Loot and Out-of-Level gold" I am assuming you mean "out-of-subtier gold and access to the items listed for Subtier 1-2 but not 4-5.")

Yes, you are correct to my meaning of out-of-subtier gold and access to the items listed for Subtier 1-2 but not 4-5.

Even I as the GM do not get access to the 4-5 items, also correct?

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Not unless you are applying the credit to a level 4 or 5 character.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Belafon wrote:
Not unless you are applying the credit to a level 4 or 5 character.

Are you sure? Because a PC in between tiers could just as easily be earning OoST gold for playing in the high tier as the low tier. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to the GM credit PC.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Belafon wrote:
Not unless you are applying the credit to a level 4 or 5 character.
Are you sure? Because a PC in between tiers could just as easily be earning OoST gold for playing in the high tier as the low tier. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to the GM credit PC.

Sigh. Something else that fell into an undefined case with the last Guide revision. Prior to 5.0 (and the addition of out-of-subtier) it was clear - GMs always took the lower level rewards if they were between subtier.

You are correct, the GM rewards section doesn't explicitly answer that. I guess it might default back to whatever subtier the game was played at. I wouldn't feel comfortable saying "go ahead and give yourself access to the high-tier items no matter what" unless Mike or John said that was the intention.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

GMs get gold appropriate to the level of character they apply the credit to, as if that character played the game.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
GMs get gold appropriate to the level of character they apply the credit to, as if that character played the game.

Everyone is agreeing with that (including out-of-subtier as an option). The question at the moment is what subtier chronicle items does an out-of-subtier GM character have access to?

If I'm a brand new GM using the Guide to Organized Play 5.0 as my only source, it looks like my access would depend on what subtier the table played at.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Lower if they are out of subtier

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Lower if they are out of subtier

That's what I thought too, but RDN pointed out that it doesn't specify that anywhere anymore.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

The common sense answer is that they get access to all subtiers up to and including their level. So a 5th-level PC given credit for a tier 1-7 scenario would get access to all rewards appropriate for 1st-5th level PCs (i.e. subtiers 1-2 & 3-4; they'd get access to a mythical 'subtier 5' if it existed too) but nothing higher (so no access to subtier 6-7).


Thanks everyone for clarifications. I'm all about common sense. What I have gathered from what everyone has said that the unofficial "official consensus" is: GM ITEM LOOT is determined by subtier the GM character chronicle sheet being applied to would have been if GM character had played at any table. From my post one of this thread, that would be subtier 1-2 for a 3rd level character. I'm good with that. (For GM credit, in essence you take the APL of a party of one, being the GM character who must always play down if necessary)

If I GM'd a session that was a Tier 5-9 and the table played at subtier 8-9; and attempted to apply this GM credit to a 3rd level character it's technically held in reserve until the character becomes an appropriately leveled minimum 5th level character, and GOLD and LOOT would be at the subtier 5-6 reward, regardless that the tabled played at subtier 8-9.

Now, assuming that the previous paragraph is accurate (and I'm sorry if this seems like its needed to be beaten into the skull), would it not behoove my character to continue to hold onto the sheet until it reached level 8 before applying the sheet to have more gold and better loot; and could one also do such? Or, am stuck in the paradox that I have a level appropriate character and therefor must apply it.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Zantumal wrote:
Now, assuming that the previous paragraph is accurate (and I'm sorry if this seems like its needed to be beaten into the skull), would it not behoove my character to continue to hold onto the sheet until it reached level 8 before applying the sheet to have more gold and better loot; and could one also do such? Or, am stuck in the paradox that I have a level appropriate character and therefor must apply it.

Aha! This one I can confidently say is answered in the Guide (page 37). You have to apply the chronicle as soon as that character reaches level 5.

Quote:
If the GM with a low-level character runs any higher tier scenarios that don’t include a subtier for her 1st-level rogue, she takes the lowest subtier Chronicle sheet from that scenario and holds it for her PC. Then, once her PC achieves the appropriate level for that Chronicle sheet, it is immediately applied. For example, if a GM with a 1st-level rogue runs a Tier 5–9 scenario, she would take a Subtier 5–6 Chronicle sheet (the lowest subtier for that tier) for running the scenario and set it aside. Once her rogue reaches 5th level, she can immediately apply the Chronicle sheet to her character. This means that GMs’ characters can potentially level up in bursts.


Yea there it is. I knew I saw that explanation someplace. I feel like I have to read these rules every time I GM to remind myself what I'm supposed to do.

So what remains is still determining an official ruling on GM credit for OoST available items - based upon table GM'd or GM Character level applied to. In my case above (post 1) it is cut and dry as it is both the same. It may not always be.

It is written in the document someplace to the effect that as GM's we aren't risking our characters as such so we don't expend resources as a normal player would. Therefore along with the same theme I put forth "Take the APL of a party of one, being the GM character who must always play down if necessary to determine subtier items available on a chronicle sheet." This seems fair to me from both the player and GM perspective.

This also seems supported by:

GTPSOP pg 37 wrote:
The subtier for which a GM’s character receives credit depends on the character’s level. If a GM with a 1st-level rogue runs a Tier 1–5 scenario using Subtier 1–2, she takes a Subtier 1–2 Chronicle sheet for her 1st-level rogue. If she instead runs a Tier 1–5 scenario using Subtier 4–5, she still takes a Subtier 1–2 Chronicle sheet, as her PC clearly falls within the lower subtier.

Take the lowest possible subtier based upon the character level. For a Tier 1-5 a L3 should take 1-2. That verbiage should probably be cleaned up a bit to make it more clear for OoST levels.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Take a step back and try to see the bigger picture. Out of Sub-tier gold is a new thing as of the last release of the PFS Guide 8/14/2013. Before that there was no OoS gold. OoS gold is only gold not item access. GM credit does not work the same way as player credit because the GM's PC doesn't actually play. Player characters get item access based on what sub-tier was played. GM characters have to apply the Chronicle based on their character's current level. If the character is between sub-tiers they have to "play" down. It's been that way since GM credit started. Modifying part of a rule doesn't change the way the rest of the rule works.

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