So my gaming group is getting ready to start Wrath of the Righteous. Our group consists of the following: one redeemer paladin, one holy vindicator (oracle of life/paladin), myself (leaning towards arcane trickster), and one other player (undecided, but leaning towards a bard or a warpriest).
I was planning on making my entry build look something like this:
Sorcerer (seeker) 4, Rogue (kitsune trickster) 1, Sleepless Detective 1, Arcane Trickster
Some notes:
— I know playing a wizard is mechanically better than playing a sorcerer because of the latter's spell level delay, but I'm not a fan of prepared spellcasting.
— The idea was to take a level of Sleepless Detective to reduce the number of Rogue levels that I needed to take: with these two levels, I net +2d6 sneak attack.
— This also has the added benefit of making me really good at Intelligence (ironic since I don't want wizard levels): between Kitsune Trickster and Sleepless Detective I get to add my Intelligence bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks.
What's really bugging me is the horrendous Base Attack Bonus that I'd incur from doing all this multiclassing. (I think I have +2 at 5th level and it doesn't rise to +3 until 8th). I could use some tips and experience from other arcane trickster players, specifically those who multiclass sorcerer:
— Does the low BAB hurt at all?
— Is it worth investing in feats like Weapon Focus (ray)?
— Any other notes or information that you have in regards to creating a successful build.
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Ideally you will mostly be targetting no Dex touch AC, so that you can sneak attack with your spells, so the low BAB doesn't matter so much. When things start massing deflection and other bonueses you could always pop off a quickened true strike if you feel it's necessary.
The only problem is that there actually are not a lot of ray spells in Pathfinder, especially ones that do damage so you can add sneak attack.
Be aware that Arcane Trickster is not really a super effective combat choice - I've played one to 21st level, and it was fun, but winning fights wasn't my job. Being a skeleton key for all sorts of oddball problems the party faced was my job.
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Is Kitsune mandatory for this build? If you change to musetouched Aasimiar you only need 1 level or sorcerer to qualify, allowing you to go Ninja(or rogue) 3/Sorc 1/Arcane Trickster X. You admittedly lose out on a bit of spellcasting that way, but you have better skills and BAB, so it kinda balances out. If you MUST be a Kitsune, then your build looks like the best unless you want to play against your stats and go the wizard route. As far as BAB is concerned I'd say just ignore it, or use spells to make up for it. Off the top of my head, True Strike gives you +20 to one attack role for when you REALLY need to hit something. However, since you're only losing 2 caster levels, your best bet is just to play this character less like a normal arcane trickster and more like a spellcaster who happens to have some rogue skills and sneak attack. Don't go for melee at all. Instead, focus on pumping those spell DCs and being an offensive caster. Make sure to take some spells that can have your sneak attack dice attached to them. You could, if you really wanted to, make a devoted blaster out of this, but it's not necessary if you're not into that.
Personally, though, what I would do if you MUST have Kitsune is go with the wizard route. Yeah, the stat boosts of Kitsune aren't great, but you do get to enter arcane trickster with only 1 level in your casting class due to one of the vairents of the divination school getting an SLA that lets you qualify. Even further, you can still be great at social skills with just 12-14 cha, so you can afford to pump int to 18 before racials. If you go with you're current build, exchanging wizard for sorcerer, you'll be one of the best socalites ever, with your high wizardly int getting added to all social skills that matter AND to Sense motive TWICE(which is good because wisdom will be your primary dump stat.) Take the student of philosophy trait and you're bluffing and diplomacy will be ridiculous. Conversely, you can go Kitsune Trickster 3/Wizard(diviner) 1/Arcane Trickster X for better BAB and more importantly better skills, but be warned that with your abysmal strength you'll most likely want to stick to ranged combat before you start being a spellcaster. See if you're allowed to re-train feats as taking point blank shot and precise shot at low levels and then re-training them out once you start being more cast-y would be highly beneficial. If your going to focus on ray spells, however, it may be useful to keep these feats, as your DM may rule that they apply to ray spells as well which would be pretty awesome. The only downside to focusing on rays is that most of the good ones happen to be necromancy spells, and it just so happens Necromancy is one of the best choices of banned schools for this build....
This is just my two cents, however, take it for what you will.
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I see you have a paladin in the proposed party, Aura of Justice is amazing for a sorcerer that uses ranged touch spells. Add Cha bonus to hit and AC? Yes please!
From what I can tell, Aura of Mercy that redeemers get doesn't preclude you from using a normal smite if you want. Just something to keep in mind for later. Nothing like popping off a disintegrate from hiding/invisible at an extra +8 to hit and doing 11d6+30 even if they make their save, and something like 36d6+30 if they fail.
Scorching ray can also be fun here, as each ray gets your level bonus to damage.
you say you don't like prepared casting, but have you looked at the Arcanist from the Advanced Class Guide playtest? You prepare like a Wizard and cast like a Sorcerer.
Word spells are also an option if you're looking for more blasting versatility.
I've got an Arcanist in my campaign, and I can tell you now that it's an incredibly versatile class. As for blasting, the Potent Spell exploit lends itself well to boosting damage at early levels, and they combine the spell variety of a wizard with the flexibility of a sorcerer. Of course, you will have less spells prepared each day to choose from. Preferred Spell at level 5 looks like a good idea to help expand those.
And can someone tell me how you get 2d6 sneak attack from one level of rogue and one level of sleepless detective? I was under the impression that the class levels stack like it's described in the vivisectionist archetype for alchemist. Does it work differently for other classes?
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Yeah, never thought of arcanist, but it would certainly be -nice- for this build. You can't go into it with just one level like wizard, but the int focus is very nice with Kitsune Trickster. Just be warned that if going the arcane trickster route with arcanist you won't be all that great with exploits, so be sure to pick ones that don't suck if you're arcanist level is low. For that reason, I'd stay away from the blasty-ones. Also, for the purpose of getting into Arcane Trickster I would highly recommend going as an evil character and using assassin in place of Sleepless Detective. While the later has nice bonuses, it has tough prerequisites, including a feat tax in alertness and a skill tax in 5 ranks of craft alchemy. Assassin meanwhile only has evil alignment and ranks in skills you'll be taking anyway as prerequisites, and that makes it easier to get in. The only time I'd ever take the other is if you MUST be non-evil(a lot of DMs ban evil PCs) or your DM is going to force you to meet assassin's RP prerequisites. Even if your DM does enforce the RP prerequisite I'd still at least consider assassin since taking the time to kill a 1HD commoner to become an assassin is less painful then eating the feat and skill tax to get into Sleepless Detective. Personally, if using arcanist, I would go Kitsune Trickster 1/Arcanist 4/Assassin(Or Sleepless Detective if Assassin is not viable) 1/Arcane Trickster X.
they both get sneak attack dice at level 1I've got an Arcanist in my campaign, and I can tell you now that it's an incredibly versatile class. As for blasting, the Potent Spell exploit lends itself well to boosting damage at early levels, and they combine the spell variety of a wizard with the flexibility of a sorcerer. Of course, you will have less spells prepared each day to choose from. Preferred Spell at level 5 looks like a good idea to help expand those.
And can someone tell me how you get 2d6 sneak attack from one level of rogue and one level of sleepless detective? I was under the impression that the class levels stack like it's described in the vivisectionist archetype for alchemist. Does it work differently for other classes?
I know that, but I want to know why they're being stacked like that. This is from the Vivisectionist page:
If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).
For this class, it's the levels that stack, not the dice themselves. Is this how it's meant to work for other classes as well, or is this specific to the vivisectionist?
The only problem is that there actually are not a lot of ray spells in Pathfinder, especially ones that do damage so you can add sneak attack.
You can sneak attack with any spell that requires an attack roll, if I remember correctly. The restriction is that I can't take Weapon Focus with things like acid splash.
Is Kitsune mandatory for this build?
You speak of my racial choice as though it were a huge burden upon my character. Personally, while I understand the ruling and acknowledge the developers' decisions, I refuse to use spell-like abilities to qualify for Prestige Classes with spellcasting requirements because I think its incredibly cheesy.
I don't see the draw of the ninja class for arcane tricksters, personally. My BAB is too low to make use of that additional attack from the ki pool and I'm multiclassing into Sleepless Detective specifically to reduce the number of non-spellcasting class levels that I need. Taking a level of ninja for a defunct ki pool is pretty poor in my opinion. That is, unless I chose to take vanishing step to make sneak attacking with my rays slightly easier; it still leaves me as a two-round combo machine, however.
Also, the Adventure Path we're playing in is Wrath of the Righteous; an Evil assassin isn't really an option.
you say you don't like prepared casting, but have you looked at the Arcanist from the Advanced Class Guide playtest? You prepare like a Wizard and cast like a Sorcerer.
Word spells are also an option if you're looking for more blasting versatility.
I'm a bit apprehensive about the arcanist because of the low number of spells per day it possesses. But words of power? That's something that I hadn't considered, so I looked into it. Words of Power seems cool, but my chief concern is that many of the words are noticeably weaker than their spells' counterparts. For example, there is no Word equivalent for Overland Flight.
I know that, but I want to know why they're being stacked like that. This is from the Vivisectionist page:
If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).For this class, it's the levels that stack, not the dice themselves. Is this how it's meant to work for other classes as well, or is this specific to the vivisectionist?
Read the final sentence:
This ability is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 for every three levels beyond the first. If a Sleepless detective gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.
In short, the restriction you mention is specific to the vivisectionist.