| modicasolis |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hey all. I built this Inspiring Commander Cavalier after finding it and realizing this was everything I ever wanted: a competent martial party leader and tank that has a support focus to it. I'd like some input on how I've got it built out so far.
Human Order of the Dragon Cavalier 9 (Inspiring Commander)
STR 18(16+2)
DEX 14
CON 16 (14+1+1)
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 10
(1) Bonus Teamwork Feat: Duck and Cover
(1) Feat: Power Attack
(1) Human Bonus Feat: Combat Expertise
(3) Feat: Combat Reflexes
(5) Feat: Intimidating Prowess
(7) Feat: Cornugon Smash
(9) Feat: Swift Aid
(9) Bonus Teamwork Feat: Escape Route
Carefully Hidden Trait (+1 to Will, +2 vs Divination)
Savant Trait (+2 to Perform: Oratory and Perform is a Class Skill)
The next feats I'm going to pick up are Discordant Voice and then work my way to Great Cleave. The rest of the party are ranged fighters and spellcasters, so I want to use Cornugon Smash to Demoralize as many enemies as I can with my +18 bonus to Intimidate to soften them up so the casters and ranged fighters can tear them apart.
Meanwhile, I'm also using my Challenge to lower its AC even further and my Inspiring Command/Inspire Courage to increase their attack rolls. With Shaken, Challenge, and Inspire Courage, they're at a +7 to hit. I'd use Challenge to more or less 'call targets' for focus fire efforts. If I need to close a gap between myself/the party and the enemy of my Challenge, I use Strategy and grant us all an Immediate action movement.
If I see anyone getting into trouble, I can Aid from 30ft away on one of the squishier party members to give them a +6 to their next save or to their AC against the next attack. Or if we're in trouble, I can use Rapid Tactician to give us all Escape Route, Strategy to give us an Immediate Action movement, and Swift Aid to Aid anyone who is dangerously low.
I like this build. I like it a lot. The only thing I'm not sure of is if Combat Reflexes will really be of any use. Might swap it out for Cleave or Step Up, don't know what would be more useful. What do y'all think?
EDIT: Would also like comments on attribute importance. I feel like I have to spread things a little thin so I'm skimping on DEX since I'll have good armor and a shield to beef that up. CON I need to take hits, INT for the Initiative bonus and for my other abilities, STR is obvious, and I don't want to drop WIS or CHA too low because I need WIS for Perception and CHA for extra Intimidate.
| XMorsX |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is indeed a great archetype.
Dreadful Carnage is a far better choice than Great Cleave for AoE intimidation.
Take the Bruising Intellect trait. Now you intimidate based on your Intelligence, so you can safely dump your Charisma. My interpretation is that you use Intelligence for perform, correct me if you are sure I am wrong here.
Your other trait should be Adopted (Helpful) for a bonus to Aid Another.
It is better to take Lookout at 1st lvl and Outflank at 9th lvl as your teamwork feats IMO.
With Outflank, having Combat Reflexes is mandatory too.
You qualify for the battle Herald PrC at 6th lvl. I am not sure if it is worth it, but you should definately check it out.
| modicasolis |
It is indeed a great archetype.
Dreadful Carnage is a far better choice than Great Cleave for AoE intimidation.
Take the Bruising Intellect trait. Now you intimidate based on your Intelligence, so you can safely dump your Charisma. My interpretation is that you use Intelligence for perform, correct me if you are sure I am wrong here.
Your other trait should be Adopted (Helpful) for a bonus to Aid Another.
It is better to take Lookout at 1st lvl and Outflank at 9th lvl as your teamwork feats IMO.
With Outflank, having Combat Reflexes is mandatory too.
You qualify for the battle Herald PrC at 6th lvl. I am not sure if it is worth it, but you should definately check it out.
Ooh, nice find with Bruising Intellect. Perform works off of Charisma and isn't a class skill for Cavaliers. Making the Aid Another check from a distance is a DC10 roll so I wanted to make it a class skill so that I'd get the +3 bonus and never need more than one point to make it nearly impossible to fail.
As for Adopted (Helpful), that won't work for our setting (which is basically Dragon Age). As for Outflank, that didn't seem useful since I am the only melee combatant. The others are a Witch, a Sorcerer, and a Zen Archer.
But Bruising Intellect is a definite must. Yes...
| modicasolis |
So with a 25 point buy, what should I do?
I don't want to dump Wisdom for the Perception rolls, I guess I could dump Charisma (though that sounds strange from an RP perspective).
I can't get everything to add up the way I like.
EDIT: How would you roleplay this guy? I see him as a brilliant tactical commander who has own people over not by his charm or inspiration. Instead, he has won people over because he's never lost a battle he planned. Not once. He isn't one to take credit for it, though. He doesn't care much for that. He is an exceptionally skilled combatant, but that is out of necessity, not out of glory. He wants to see his enemies crushed and he has devoted his mind and body to that purpose, eschewing social graces and charm, forgoing the lessons of the world and people around him.
To an extent, he sees others as tools to fight against the evil in the world, though he values an exceptionally well crafted tool as any good craftsman should. This makes him terrifying to some, but the major source of his intimidating power comes from his brilliance and his brawn that knows no point or purpose other than to destroy what threatens him and his order.
Does that sit right for High Int/High Strength and Low Wis/Low Cha to y'all?
| XMorsX |
XMorsX wrote:It is indeed a great archetype.
Dreadful Carnage is a far better choice than Great Cleave for AoE intimidation.
Take the Bruising Intellect trait. Now you intimidate based on your Intelligence, so you can safely dump your Charisma. My interpretation is that you use Intelligence for perform, correct me if you are sure I am wrong here.
Your other trait should be Adopted (Helpful) for a bonus to Aid Another.
It is better to take Lookout at 1st lvl and Outflank at 9th lvl as your teamwork feats IMO.
With Outflank, having Combat Reflexes is mandatory too.
You qualify for the battle Herald PrC at 6th lvl. I am not sure if it is worth it, but you should definately check it out.
As for Outflank, that didn't seem useful since I am the only melee combatant. The others are a Witch, a Sorcerer, and a Zen Archer.
This actually a major problem. Half your supportive abilites are about helping martials in melee. I would say to go archer and take the enfilading fire for your zen archer, but then you would have to drop the intimidation, which is probalby more useful as this way you drop the enemies's saves for your casters. Escape Plab is probably justified as a result.
I would suggest that you drop the order of the dragon and take the order of the staff instead. It gives bonuses that spellcasters can better take advantage and modifies the aid another to a way that is more interesting to them.
Your RP perspective is fine.
Your traits are Bruising Intellect and Savant as a result.
Without a way to generate AoOs, you hsould probably swap Combat Reflexes
with Mounted Combat. You do have a horse after all. But probably you should take Furiosu Focus first, so that you can take Dreadful Carnage at 11th lvl.
The ideal stat array is probably:
STR 18 (16+2)
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 7
| modicasolis |
This actually a major problem. Half your supportive abilites are about helping martials in melee. I would say to go archer and take the enfilading fire for your zen archer, but then you would have to drop the intimidation, which is probalby more useful as this way you drop the enemies's saves for your casters. Escape Plab is probably justified as a result.
I would suggest that you drop the order of the dragon and take the order of the staff instead. It gives bonuses that spellcasters can better take advantage and modifies the aid another to a way that is more interesting to them.
Your RP perspective is fine.
Your traits are Bruising Intellect and Savant as a result.
Without a way to generate AoOs, you hsould probably swap Combat Reflexes
with Mounted Combat. You do have a horse after all. But probably you should take Furiosu Focus first, so that you can take Dreadful Carnage at 11th lvl.The ideal stat array is probably:
STR 18 (16+2)
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 7
I don't have a mount; the Inspiring Commander archetype ditches the mount and was the main reason I took it. But switching to Order of the Staff could be pretty awesome, since that stacks with what Aid Another can already do while the Order of the Dragon only improves on what Aid Another does. I'd be able to boost Caster Level, Concentration, or Dispel Checks by 5. The Witch is who needs the negative to Saving Throws most since he uses all these Hexes with his low-ish DC. With my Challenge and with a Demoralize, that's a potential -5 to their DCs, which is awesome. The Wizard mostly uses Scorching Ray though, so the lowering of DCs isn't that useful for that (though the Demoralize and Inspire Courage certainly is).
As for Dreadful Carnage, I saw that but didn't take it as I felt I wouldn't be the one landing killing blows most of the time. Also, Furious Focus requires a two hand weapon or a one hand weapon in both hands, which would remove my shield AC, which is a problem.
Also, Arcane Vessel is kind of useless for me since none of my allies ever cast those kinds of buffs, which is a bummer. I really like the mobility potential that Strategy brings.
| XMorsX |
You are right about the mount, I missed it.
It is a tough choice, but in the end lowering their saves is a more useful buff for your Witch than buffing your zen archer IMO. Order of the Staff is probably a better choice as a result. Also, the 15th lvl ability of the order of the staff is amazing, while the 15th lvl ability of the order of the dragon is almost useless for your team. Make sure you have Combat Reflexes by then.
With a two-handed weapon and power attack, you will land killing blows pretty frequently. You will still have x1.5 Str to damage and 3:1 Power Attack ratio. If you are serious about your shield, grab a scimitar and a quickdraw shield along with the quickdraw feat and do the standard (a bit cheesy) trick of free action sheathing and unshiething it. It does not worth it to lose Dreadful Carnage in an intimidate based build just for using a shield.
Also, remember that there is no need to use a two-hander by lvl 1. You could use at the start of your carrer sword+board and change to a two hander when you get furious focus. However, with 18 Str the difference between two-handing and one-handeing your weapon is +4 vs +6 damage which is pretty significant right from lvl 1.
| modicasolis |
Any other input on this, folks?
I really appreciate the advice thus far!
EDIT: You posted just before I did!
My worry with losing the shield is, as the primary martial combatant and the tank of the group, I need that extra AC pretty badly. With equivalent equipment to my current character in the game, I'm at a 28 AC with a Ring of Protection +2 and an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 and a +2 Heavy Shield and a 14 Dex. The enemies we're fighting are hitting a 26 AC no problem, and often higher. I'm really loathe to give up the additional AC to switch to a two-hander as a result.
| modicasolis |
Okay, current build update. Used the starting wealth to buy my character a Headband of Mental Prowess (Int/Wis) and a Belt of Physical Might (Str/Dex). So right now:
Level 9 Order of the Staff Cavalier (Inspiring Commander)
STR: 21 (16+2+1+2 from Equipment)
DEX: 16 (14+2 from Equipment)
CON: 16 (16)
INT: 16 (14+2 from Equipment)
WIS: 14 (12+2 from Equipment)
CHA: 7
Trait: Bruising Intellect
Trait: Savant
(1) Teamwork Feat: Duck and Cover
(1) Bonus Feat: Combat Expertise
(1) Feat: Power Attack
(3) Feat: Furious Focus
(5) Feat: Intimidating Prowess
(7) Feat: Cornugon Smash
(9) Teamwork Feat: Escape Route
(9) Feat: Swift Aid
Feats are level 11, 13, and 15 will be Discordant Voice, Dreadful Finish, and Combat Reflexes, though not necessarily in that order. If I can find some way to function without a shield, I'd also like to pick up Flagbearer. I'm going to try and lobby for a beefy Quickdraw Shield.
Any thoughts?