Running Faction Missions

[CNB]

I'm just now starting to run some Pathfinder Society events for friends (and train some new GMs so they can run PFS as well). Now that Faction Missions have been eliminated, should I bother to run them in earlier modules? I'm concerned for two reasons:

First, they're an added bit of complexity, and explaining to new players and GMs what they are, and were, and why they don't exist any more is something I'd rather not get into right now.

Second, I always thought they were an interesting feature of PFS, and I'm worried people are going to really like them and get disappointed playing through the new scenarios without them. Hence, avoiding them entirely.

Can they be cut entirely from earlier scenarios? Should they be?

[BigNorseWolf]

I'd look over the mission and see whether its fun or not. if its a random grab the macguffin skip it, if it makes you laugh or advances the metaplot toss it in.

[yosemitemike]

They are optional now. You can give them out or not as you chose.

There was supposed to be a document that said what the new goals for older scenarios would be but I haven't seen it yet. Until I do, I am going to keep handing out faction missions for older scenarios just like before. That's just me though. You don't have to use them at all if you don't want to.

[TriOmegaZero]

I like being able to just jump in without having to worry about faction missions. Still, some of them can be enjoyable and pad out the shorter scenarios.

[yosemitemike]

Even if Gms hand them out the players don't have to pay any attention to them if they don't want to. Not doing them doesn't cost the players anything. Some fo them can be fun and some can be silly or pointless. It depends on the faction and scenario.

[Michael Meunier]

My practice has been to ask the players whether or not they want me to read the mission to them. I'll usually even break out the voices I used for the faction leaders in First Steps (My Guaril is pretty good :P ). I think actually handing them out is s bit much.

[Deviant Diva]

I have to say... I think it's a crying shame that they got rid of the Faction Missions. I'm very new to Pathfinder Society and it was a point of pride to accomplish my WTH?! Osirion Faction Missions. -Drink this poison and drink from the Well of Asmodeus... did it cure you? No.. hmm.. oh! You might want to drink the antidote! Or... Walk into that Ember Sandstorm and catch an ember in this itty bitty box >.> Or... Rip out feathers from a harpy while it's in mid-0flight -there are rules to do this o.O- and gather blood from a troll in complete darkness -THERE'S NO DANG TROLL ANYWHERE IN THIS ADVENTURE!!! -roams and randomly finds a troll-

I've noticed that Pathfinder has become a game of statistics and numbers and hack/slashy. The Faction Missions helped inject a dose of role-playing and thought that seems to get overlooked otherwise... Sad sad day.

[ahayford]

They should be replacing the faction missions with secondary objectives...eventually...

[nosig]

heck, I can now invent faction missions in the middle of an adventure and no one is the wiser...

Player 1: "I use Disable Device to remove the doorknob from the door and put it in my back pack. I take 10 and get a 25... do I get it?"
Player 2: "Doorknob? wha???"
Player 1: "Faction mission guy..."
Player 2: "HA! I know what you mean! The Paracountess has me collecting the strangest things!"

Great fun!

[BigNorseWolf]

Player gets charmed by the vampire.

"Why is bob tossing all the garlic, silver and holy symbols down the well?

"meh, must be a faction mission"

[Deviant Diva]

HaHa! People with Faction Missions where they had to change something on ancient text HATED me and my Osirion Lore Warden.

1. No perception to speak of but would always roll a 20.
2. Their characters are skilled out the ears in bluff/slight of hand and always rolled a 1 while she was looking.

XD "Hey, um, can I take a look at that?" -glare- "And why would that be Mr. Been Caught Altering Historic Texts One to Many Times?!" "Um... LOOK A BIRD!" -GLARE-

[Deviant Diva]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Player gets charmed by the vampire.

"Why is bob tossing all the garlic, silver and holy symbols down the well?

"meh, must be a faction mission"

LOLZ

The throwing random holy stuff down a well reminded me of the first game I listened in on at a game shop. there was a wailing coming from well. They were all "Uhh... trust us, we know it hurts Mr. Ghost, but it'll help you move along... -whisper- I am NOT going down a freakin well to battle a ghost!" -pours a gallon or so of holy water into the well-

[Andreas Forster]

Deviant Diva wrote:

I've noticed that Pathfinder has become a game of statistics and numbers and hack/slashy. The Faction Missions helped inject a dose of role-playing and thought that seems to get overlooked otherwise

Unfortunately, there were A LOT that required a character to collect some random item just to give members of each faction something to do, and I don't think that helps create a nice role-playing experience. Things like that just slow the main story down.

Then, there were those missions that required a player to find a certain spot in the scenario and succeed at a skill check, often DC 20+. Sometimes, those were skills that can't be rolled untrained. It's really depressing if you try to roleplay your character through the entire scenario and then fail your faction mission because of a single bad roll or because you didn't have any ranks in the skill.

Of course, there were some missions that could be solved with clever roleplaying, and I always loved them, because they actually required roleplaying and not just simply a lucky die roll.

Finally, the faction missions are not completely gone. Season 5 scenarios have several encounters that are important for members of some factions, who get a special boon for successfully navigating through the encounter. There's not a special encounter for each faction in every scenario, which prevents the need for those random "bring me the copper key or bronze ring" missions.
Also, the introduction of the secondary mission objective as a way to gain the second prestige point is a good way to make people actually think about why they're doing what they're doing instead of just going through all the encounters just because they are there.

[Deviant Diva]

Andreas Forster wrote:

Deviant Diva wrote:

I've noticed that Pathfinder has become a game of statistics and numbers and hack/slashy. The Faction Missions helped inject a dose of role-playing and thought that seems to get overlooked otherwise

Unfortunately, there were A LOT that required a character to collect some random item just to give members of each faction something to do, and I don't think that helps create a nice role-playing experience. Things like that just slow the main story down.

Then, there were those missions that required a player to find a certain spot in the scenario and succeed at a skill check, often DC 20+. Sometimes, those were skills that can't be rolled untrained. It's really depressing if you try to roleplay your character through the entire scenario and then fail your faction mission because of a single bad roll or because you didn't have any ranks in the skill.

Of course, there were some missions that could be solved with clever roleplaying, and I always loved them, because they actually required roleplaying and not just simply a lucky die roll.

Finally, the faction missions are not completely gone. Season 5 scenarios have several encounters that are important for members of some factions, who get a special boon for successfully navigating through the encounter. There's not a special encounter for each faction in every scenario, which prevents the need for those random "bring me the copper key or bronze ring" missions.
Also, the introduction of the secondary mission objective as a way to gain the second prestige point is a good way to make people actually think about why they're doing what they're doing instead of just going through all the encounters just because they are there.

-HUGS- Thank you for clearing that up! Some of the best moments in the game where when the party was working together to assist one another in accomplishing a Faction Mission simply due to the "Eh?! How the hell am I gonna accomplish this?! -glances @ player 2, aka the Diplomacy God- "Hey George, Bob is busy throwing random stuff down a well for his faction mission, can you please help me convince someone of something?" -bats eyelashes-

[Treefolk]

I've been using some and discarding others. Often times the boring "collect X" missions get done by inventive players for later possible shenanigans (cut out the glands of the Cave Fisher to later use as glue to stick things together was a good one). For example I ran one mission where the faction mission involved decoding a journal that revealed the story of the poor souls that turned into the ghouls the party just dismembered. Just as a plot point, it allowed me to turn the ghouls from "just another encounter" into "the sad ending of Henry and Franklin". The players got a kick from what would've been a fairly uninteresting combat and it improved the session.

Other faction missions are rather pointless but provide some good memories. One of my favorite involved asking the Venture Captain how his mother was.

[Fromper]

I'm thinking of just keeping the Taldor faction missions and tossing the rest. I don't know why, but Taldor usually had the best faction missions... except for that whole tea set thing.

"I do this for Taldor!!!"

[nosig]

bah! Osirion. "Smack your head on this rock, and drop your CHA by 5 points. Just before the final fight. Makes Channeling harder..." or "Drink this, it's poison. Then see if this other stuff heals you..."

[Leg o' Lamb]

Fromper wrote:

I'm thinking of just keeping the Taldor faction missions and tossing the rest. I don't know why, but Taldor usually had the best faction missions... except for that whole tea set thing.

"I do this for Taldor!!!"

Still the greatest Taldor-esque faction mission that never was must be "Say hi to my mom for me."

[Fromper]

jon dehning wrote:

Fromper wrote:

I'm thinking of just keeping the Taldor faction missions and tossing the rest. I don't know why, but Taldor usually had the best faction missions... except for that whole tea set thing.

"I do this for Taldor!!!"

Still the greatest Taldor-esque faction mission that never was must be "Say hi to my mom for me."

I must have missed that one. I do remember "I want you to meet my father", though.

I think the fan favorite Taldor mission (Taldans actually like doing it) has to be the one where you're told to push a guy off a boat/dock into the water just to embarrass him. The funniest part was that I had to do that one with a gnome sorcerer with 7 strength, so it was much more challenging than the author probably intended. I ended up conning my friend's Chelaxian inquisitor of Asmodeus into pushing the guy for me.

[Leg o' Lamb]

Fromper, it is the faction mission that never was.

Still the best though.

[Majuba]

I have always enjoyed the faction missions at least moderately - they help inspire some of us to remember to look past the numbers.

Of late, I've found the scenarios I play where the GM goes without faction missions dull, and the ones with them much fuller.

[Treefolk]

Majuba wrote:

I have always enjoyed the faction missions at least moderately - they help inspire some of us to remember to look past the numbers.

Of late, I've found the scenarios I play where the GM goes without faction missions dull, and the ones with them much fuller.

To be fair, the adventure I'm prepping for now contains a collection of "meet or beat" flat DC faction missions that generally seems to be there because "faction missions". I'll probably fluff if up some and have the players still try for them as just a fluff point, but most of them are just s sentence that read off as, "X faction members should beat a Y DC with Z skill here to complete their faction mission."

[Greg Hurst]

For every 'For Taldor' there were 10 Andoran missions that required you kill the final boss you were going to kill anyways or require you to make a DC 25 Craft (Underwater Basketweaving). I'm liking the Season 5 I've read so far where it seems a little more interwoven into the plot and doesn't require the faction leader to be me omniscient.

As far as the original question I've just skipped faction missions so far, but if I see an awesome one I'll be sure to include it.

[Mekkis]

Greg Hurst wrote:

For every 'For Taldor' there were 10 Andoran missions that required you kill the final boss you were going to kill anyways or require you to make a DC 25 Craft (Underwater Basketweaving). I'm liking the Season 5 I've read so far where it seems a little more interwoven into the plot and doesn't require the faction leader to be me omniscient.

The fact that some faction missions are somewhat contrived is no reason to throw out what I feel to be a rather important and enjoyable aspect of PFS. The solution to "bad faction missions" is good faction missions, not "throw away all faction missions".

Faction missions allow factions to differentiate themselves and gives players on the ground a more "personal" experience than organised play often offers.

I have noticed over the years a continued deemphasis on faction missions, which I feel started with the introduction of new factions, the watering down of the missions, and a culture of gaming the system where one would expect a character of a different faction to assist in a faction mission with no ingame explanation.

In short, I feel that Pathfinder Society is worse off as a result.

The Season Five system of "several scenarios can provide special boons for factions" makes it even harder for a player on the ground (one of those 97% of players who don't keep up to date with the forums) to achieve. So much for dealing with the "unclear faction mission" complaint...

When I GM season 0-4, I hand out the faction missions as usual, and the only difference I make is what I'm required to do - that is, award prestige regardless.

I am yet to receive any negative feedback from this process.

[Treefolk]

There's one scenario I'm running this Saturday where the faction missions really provide guidance as to what the PCs are supposed to do during the mission (Quest for Perfection, Part 3).

Spoiler:

Without those helpful missions it'd really require the players to jump headfirst into this "defense point system" without any real guidance or experience. While a few of them are just "get more then 3 traps in the wall" or "successfully max out the perception checks" most of them point players to what they should be doing to win.

Without them I feel that the players won't take full advantage of the opportunity that they have there so I'll be handing out relevant faction missions for that one under the guise of "letters of advise" or some such nonsense.

[nosig]

This is from a post about Faction Missions from March of 2012 - 20 months ago?

spoilered to save space:

here's a different view on faction missions -

My wife often complains about understanding her faction missions. To such an extent that (one time in 3 or so) she will throw up her hands and just not bother. If someone else at the table has her faction too, they will often get to the cookie and say... "we need an XX skill here, 'cause we have to get YY." and she'll say "Oh, that's what that ment! sure, I got that skill, I take 10 and get ZZ". And she loves to help with other peoples missions, often having some unique skill (Knowledge Nobility anyone?). If there is no one at the table with her faction, maybe she turns to me and says "what the heck is this? can you explain what they want?". And with the noise and rush of the rest of the briefing she'll just say "never mind". and put it away. Last game she stated that she just "hate's the stupid faction missions - they just get in the way of the story".

Part of this is the habbit of handing out faction missions during the Judges briefing - so you either listen to the main mission briefing OR read your faction mission. and then players are asking for the Judge to repeat things they missed, cause they were reading the faction mission when he was talking...

Basicly, my wife would often not bother with her faction mission... because they often detract from the game. She has found that most judges do not provide time to read and understand them, she is handed a sheet of text in a hard to read font, in flowery language and expected to read (and understand it) while someone reads the mission briefing to her. And she is expected to hear/read and understand both at the same time? So she just sets the faction mission asside and doesn't bother with it.

Now, with the change for season 5, she has printed up the one line season faction missions onto sticky labels. She sticks this on her PC sheet - so she know's what each PC needs to be looking for/doing... and it's good whatever game she plays in (even ones that AREN'T season 5).